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Session 2

Lack of talent in Oklahoma?

We have 3 starters that are all 2-0 at Nationals that were wrestling for the Stillwater Pioneers 2 years ago...
 
The biggest problem trying to stay with PSU is the recruiting. Of the nine that qualified for PSU 7 were ranked in the top 5 in their class, nickal was 7th and mcutcheon was 32. The highest ranked of OSUs 10 was nick p ranked 7th, Schafer and Boyd were not in the top 200 and Weigel was just outside of 100, we have had some not develop, but that is tough to overcome. Don't get me wrong, Cael is a great coach, but it helps when you get a super elite kid at every weight.
 
WWJD? said:
Lack of talent in Oklahoma?

We have 3 starters that are all 2-0 at Nationals that were wrestling for the Stillwater Pioneers 2 years ago...
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One of those was an import, but that was a great class. Ok wrestling compared to PA, OH and others is not close.
 
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Why won't the top talent all across America walk on broken glass to get to Stillwater?
 
Hey, don't think that since OSU is done tonight that this absolves you guys from updating me about my Sooners! :)
 
jerot said:
John has had a lot of talent over the last 10 years.
A lot.
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I don't know much about wrestling so I'm just asking but some of the comments made it sounded like we wasn't getting the top talent since most of was in the Pennsylvania area. I do find it strange we have 3 guys from Stillwater high school doing so good.
 
Talked to a guy who wrestled for us not long ago and he said we are not good at recruiting millennials. Not really using twitter, etc. Also said coach Smith thinks we don't need to market ourselves because of our tradition. He said the guys don't really care for the assistants and they would not make good head coaches.

Sounds like we need an Arroyo type assistant.
 
H Town Poke said:
Talked to a guy who wrestled for us not long ago and he said we are not good at recruiting millennials. Not really using twitter, etc. Also said coach Smith thinks we don't need to market ourselves because of our tradition. He said the guys don't really care for the assistants and they would not make good head coaches.

Sounds like we need an Arroyo type assistant.
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I know some of the guys love Espo. We need a Pat back, but that ain't happening. Not sure who we could get to resemble Pat?
 
We had 2 (A FLIPPING 2) not win 2 in the championship bracket.

A 7 not win 1 in the championship bracket.

And, a 6 not win 2 in championship bracket.

Nobody wrestled below their seeds worse than us on day 1. Happens every year. Inexplicable. Some teams wrestle above their seeds, some wrestle to their seeds...we fall in the 'other' bucket far too often. It's getting really fn old.

Hope we can pull some upsets on day 2 or this is going to be a very long offseason.
 
So, one thing that has changed from the early/mid 2000's is the atmosphere of "this is where you go to get to the highest level" - which was the Olympics. During the time we were reeling off championships, you had guys like Muhammad Lawal, Daniel Cormier, Mark Munoz, Teague Moore, Jamill Kelly, to name a few.. None of those guys were officially coaches (maybe a strength & conditioning coach, not sure). They were there because that room was the best place to push yourself. I'm not saying that the room isn't tough as nails now.. Don't misunderstand me. But look at the flight of the graduated wrestlers in recent years.. Pendleton, Oliver, Coleman, Obe, and others. Better opportunities elsewhere. Can't get mad that recruits are behaving the way many of our graduates are.
 
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OState Cowboys said:
So, one thing that has changed from the early/mid 2000's is the atmosphere of "this is where you go to get to the highest level" - which was the Olympics. During the time we were reeling off championships, you had guys like Muhammad Lawal, Daniel Cormier, Mark Munoz, Teague Moore, Jamill Kelly, to name a few.. None of those guys were officially coaches (maybe a strength & conditioning coach, not sure). They were there because that room was the best place to push yourself. I'm not saying that the room isn't tough as nails now.. Don't misunderstand me. But look at the flight of the graduated wrestlers in recent years.. Pendleton, Oliver, Coleman, Obe, and others. Better opportunities elsewhere. Can't get mad that recruits are behaving the way many of our graduates are.
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This makes a lot of sense to me. Great input.
 
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april racer said:
One of those was an import, but that was a great class. Ok wrestling compared to PA, OH and others is not close.
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Two years ago we did have a great class, last year was a weak recruiting class. I have not seen anything that indicates Sheets, Moore or Anderson are going to be really good. Geo Martinez didn't show much, either did Derek White but Smith from juco could be good but did not wrestle much. We recruited one super recruit Fix and 1 good recruit Gfeller but they are in weights that we have good young wrestlers in and so even there it doesn't work out as well as it could have. Smith should redshirt and get himself right, with his health and his weight which likely will be 65. Next year we will not be in contention it will be Penn. St and Ohio State for the title. There is not a replacement for Smith and the truth is I don't see us winning another team title for a long time. This year after our Big 12 results and the Suriano injury was our best chance in the near future. I believe Penn. St. will leave us behind tomorrow unless we really start wrestling. Lastly, Piccinni wrestled very well, Kaid wrestled good but his opponents starting in the semi's seem tougher than him on the mat. Heil wrestled okay but wrestler really are getting to his legs and getting takedowns which they couldn't last year. But he will probably win. Collica was a real disappointment and I don't think he was ready to wrestle and how does he get ridden like that by the 15th seed. Smith has won but not impressive at all. Rogers has been fantastic but he has Martinez in the quarters. Crutchmer lost in the first round to a guy from Southern Illinois Edwardsville, I have to admit I look forward to Smith taking the position next year. Boyd hasn't wrestled good but could get to the semi's. Weigel has wrestled okay but not loke he did at the Big 12. He will likely lose to Moore tomorrow. Schaefer has wrestled good all year except at Nationals. Coach Smith did not have this team prepared so far. I am not saying we should look for a replacement because there is not one. However if something does not change Penn. St., Ohio State and possibly Iowa will leave us behind in the future. We still have a chance this year but we would need to wrestle great and get some breaks (we still have 10 wrestlers still wrestling. Today was depressing which has been going on for 11 years now.
 
2017 NCAA Division I Championships Results for Oklahoma State

125 - Nicholas Piccininni (24-6) place is unknown and scored 4.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Nicholas Piccininni (Oklahoma State) 24-6 won by fall over Elijah Oliver (Indiana) 14-10 (Fall 1:45)
Champ. Round 2 - Nicholas Piccininni (Oklahoma State) 24-6 won by decision over Joshua Rodriguez (North Dakota State University) 24-3 (Dec 5-2)

133 - Kaid Brock (27-2) place is unknown and scored 3.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Kaid Brock (Oklahoma State) 27-2 won by major decision over Scott Delvecchio (Rutgers) 21-14 (MD 12-4)
Champ. Round 2 - Kaid Brock (Oklahoma State) 27-2 won by decision over Mitch McKee (Minnesota) 20-18 (Dec 3-1)

141 - Dean Heil (29-0) place is unknown and scored 2.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Dean Heil (Oklahoma State) 29-0 won by decision over Brock Zacherl (Clarion) 22-4 (Dec 6-5)
Champ. Round 2 - Dean Heil (Oklahoma State) 29-0 won by decision over Jared Prince (Navy) 26-8 (Dec 9-5)

149 - Anthony Collica (21-3) place is unknown and scored 2.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Anthony Collica (Oklahoma State) 21-3 won by major decision over Cole Mendenhall (Wyoming) 30-9 (MD 11-2)
Champ. Round 2 - Kenny Theobold (Rutgers) 24-9 won in sudden victory - 1 over Anthony Collica (Oklahoma State) 21-3 (SV-1 9-3)

157 - Joseph Smith (13-4) place is unknown and scored 2.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Joseph Smith (Oklahoma State) 13-4 won by decision over Alex Griffin (Purdue) 25-14 (Dec 4-3)
Champ. Round 2 - Joseph Smith (Oklahoma State) 13-4 won by decision over May Bethea (Pennsylvania) 25-10 (Dec 6-3)

165 - Chandler Rogers (22-6) place is unknown and scored 6.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Chandler Rogers (Oklahoma State) 22-6 won by fall over Andrew Fogarty (North Dakota State University) 23-12 (Fall 2:28)
Champ. Round 2 - Chandler Rogers (Oklahoma State) 22-6 won by fall over Dylan Cottrell (West Virginia) 19-5 (Fall 0:52)

174 - Kyle Crutchmer (19-6) place is unknown and scored 1.50 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Jake Residori (SIUE) 21-12 won by decision over Kyle Crutchmer (Oklahoma State) 19-6 (Dec 6-5)
Cons. Round 1 - Kyle Crutchmer (Oklahoma State) 19-6 won by major decision over Jacob Morrissey (Purdue) 16-13 (MD 15-4)

184 - Nolan Boyd (23-4) place is unknown and scored 2.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Nolan Boyd (Oklahoma State) 23-4 won by decision over Hunter Ritter (Wisconsin) 20-15 (Dec 7-1)
Champ. Round 2 - Nolan Boyd (Oklahoma State) 23-4 won in tie breaker - 1 over Bryce Carr (Chattanooga) 26-5 (TB-1 3-2)

197 - Preston Weigel (20-5) place is unknown and scored 2.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Preston Weigel (Oklahoma State) 20-5 won by decision over Marcus Harrington (Iowa State) 9-13 (Dec 7-0)
Champ. Round 2 - Preston Weigel (Oklahoma State) 20-5 won by decision over Shawn Scott (Northern Illinois) 25-8 (Dec 3-2)

285 - Austin Schafer (23-2) place is unknown and scored 1.00 team points.
Champ. Round 1 - Austin Schafer (Oklahoma State) 23-2 won by decision over Jere Heino (Campbell) 23-8 (Dec 4-2)
Champ. Round 2 - Conan Jennings (Northwestern) 19-14 won by major decision over Austin Schafer (Oklahoma State) 23-2 (MD 8-0)
 
While watching Collica's match. There needs to be a rule change when a wrestler is on top. Hang on a leg for 5 seconds and you get hit with stalling,
But the wrestler on bottom stands up with a leg rider wrapped around him like a spider monkey and it's a stalemate. That should be a stalling call. You can't just hang on for dear life in any other position and get away with so why do leg riders. Doesn't make sense to me.
 
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OSTATE30 said:
While watching Collica's match. There needs to be a rule change when a wrestler is on top. Hang on a leg for 5 seconds and you get hit with stalling,
But the wrestler on bottom stands up with a leg rider wrapped around him like a spider monkey and it's a stalemate. That should be a stalling call. You can't just hang on for dear life in any other position and get away with so why do leg riders. Doesn't make sense to me.
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Used to be that was called potentially dangerous and immediately stopped (I know...I was a leg rider). I hated that rule. I remember Schultz once stood up like that and the ref didn't stop the match. He just looks at the ref like, "Are you going to do your job or not?" Since the ref didn't stop a potentially dangerous moment, he kind of jumps up and backwards and falls straight back and lands on the guy. I think he got dinged for a penalty point. Either or, I always wanted to do that to people who threw their legs in just to stop the match.
 
MiccoMacey said:
Used to be that was called potentially dangerous and immediately stopped (I know...I was a leg rider). I hated that rule. I remember Schultz once stood up like that and the ref didn't stop the match. He just looks at the ref like, "Are you going to do your job or not?" Since the ref didn't stop a potentially dangerous moment, he kind of jumps up and backwards and falls straight back and lands on the guy. I think he got dinged for a penalty point. Either or, I always wanted to do that to people who threw their legs in just to stop the match.
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Yes that right it's potentially dangerous call not stalemate. In my opinion the wrestler on top is not trying to return the wrestler on bottom to the mat by hanging on with the legs in so it should be stalling. I think it would be a good rule change
 
Some of the posts in this thread kill me. How many calling for John's head have been to even one match this year? Big 12's? Are you up here in St. Louis at the nationals?

I think we could certainly modify our recruiting. Modernize might be a better word. But there is a certain issue that is tough to overcome ... and that's the limited scholarships. Penn state is recruiting at a level that is hard to fathom. Yes Pennsylvania has tons of good wrestlers, but their roster is littered with great kids that come from outside of Pennsylvania. How do they continue to have enough money for the out of state kids? Especially when penn state is significantly more expensive than say Oklahoma state?

Yes penn state wrestles a great style. But that style is predicated on having tremendous athletes. When we had Dieringer, he was doing just what the penn state kids do. I think it's very safe to say that we have gotten more with less, we've had kids AA that never got a letter from penn state. I also don't think it's fair to say we've underachieved. I think the last time we've finished below seeding, overall, was when the finals were in Nebraska.

It's a 3 day tournament. Lots can happen, as long as all your athletes are still in the fray.

We do need to recruit better. Athletes in Oklahoma, and the surrounding states, must improve. We need to find a way to get the kids that are national recruits, and hope they don't turn out like Marsteller.

And I'll finish with this. It's not just us. There are a ton of very proud, tradition rich, programs that aren't sniffing penn state. It's not just endemic to us.
 
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I don't think anyone has called for his head unless I'm missing some posts. I do think we've under performed, hard to argue that. Mother got sick so my dad and I couldn't go but I'll be sure to yell at her and tell her it's her fault I'm not able to have an opinion on the fact that we have under performed at Nationals traditionally. You are correct, right now the only one that can't match their seed is Anthony so our "seed" points are still there.

This morning's round was the one when you looked at the brackets is where you would expect to see some losses, maybe we will have a great morning.

We are the Alabama, Texas, Ohio State and USC all rolled into one in wrestling. All I know is that if you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results is the definition of stupidity. Whatever we are doing in recruiting and coaching ISN'T working. Under Coach Smith we average a 4th place finish at Nationals. Now my hope is that tomorrow evening I'm sitting here eating a ton of crow and you all are all telling me that I'm an arse and I suck while we are celebrating another NC.
 
Inky29 said:
I don't think anyone has called for his head unless I'm missing some posts. I do think we've under performed, hard to argue that. Mother got sick so my dad and I couldn't go but I'll be sure to yell at her and tell her it's her fault I'm not able to have an opinion on the fact that we have under performed at Nationals traditionally. You are correct, right now the only one that can't match their seed is Anthony so our "seed" points are still there.

This morning's round was the one when you looked at the brackets is where you would expect to see some losses, maybe we will have a great morning.

We are the Alabama, Texas, Ohio State and USC all rolled into one in wrestling. All I know is that if you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results is the definition of stupidity. Whatever we are doing in recruiting and coaching ISN'T working. Under Coach Smith we average a 4th place finish at Nationals. Now my hope is that tomorrow evening I'm sitting here eating a ton of crow and you all are all telling me that I'm an arse and I suck while we are celebrating another NC.
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Cant we start now?:rolleyes:
 
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Inky29 said:
I don't think anyone has called for his head unless I'm missing some posts. I do think we've under performed, hard to argue that. Mother got sick so my dad and I couldn't go but I'll be sure to yell at her and tell her it's her fault I'm not able to have an opinion on the fact that we have under performed at Nationals traditionally. You are correct, right now the only one that can't match their seed is Anthony so our "seed" points are still there.

This morning's round was the one when you looked at the brackets is where you would expect to see some losses, maybe we will have a great morning.

We are the Alabama, Texas, Ohio State and USC all rolled into one in wrestling. All I know is that if you do the same thing over and over again and expect different results is the definition of stupidity. Whatever we are doing in recruiting and coaching ISN'T working. Under Coach Smith we average a 4th place finish at Nationals. Now my hope is that tomorrow evening I'm sitting here eating a ton of crow and you all are all telling me that I'm an arse and I suck while we are celebrating another NC.
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I didn't name names so I don't know why you got offended. I hope your mom gets better.
 
Inky29 said:
If you want and if it makes us perform better than I'm all for it. I've got thick skin (and way more fat than I need).
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Well I tried and it didn't seem to help, but if it makes you feel better I was depressed enough to require a whole box of girl scout cookies.
 
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