Republicans dropped the ball and Dems going about it the wrong way

[TPOKE]

What a cluster on immigration. Nobody, meaning either party, wanted to touch it and now martyr obama is going out on his own to make it a bigger mess. It's all about party and not country.

This post was edited on 11/20 7:34 PM by TPOKE

 

[HighStickHarry]

Yea it is a nonsensical moment in history. Definitely won't read well in text books.

Stupid, stupid republicans having no answers for anything.

 

[gopokes2003]

Originally posted by TPOKE:
What a cluster on immigration. Nobody, meaning either party, wanted to touch it and now martyr obama is going out on his own to make it a bigger mess. It's all about party and not country.

This post was edited on 11/20 7:34 PM by TPOKE

Republicans need to pass comprehensive immigration reform in the next Congress that addresses everything and send it to the Presidents desk. Take the rug right out from under him.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

What Obama did will have the opposite effect. It will unite Republicans (for good or bad) behind a policy of no path to citizenship unless and until border security is addressed first.

 

[NeekReevers]

I don't really think you can say Republicans dropped the ball when they control 1 house of Congress. Now, I think you can say that when they swear in the new Congress and I am 99% certain they would have dropped the ball but you haven't given them the chance yet.

Everyone knows immigration reform is the key issue for 2016. Obama also knows that with a Republican Congress there is little he can do other than veto a bill. This will be unpopular but it's really his only move. If the Republicans come up with a meaningful bill in the next year, they can still win the issue. Unfortunately, I doubt the Republicans will be able to garner enough support in their own party to get anything passed. There is too wide a gap between the tea party types and the moderates IMO. The winning strategy IMO is for the tea party to suck it up, admit you're not going to have massive deportations or a giant fence, and pass a very moderate bill that allows those here now to stay but limits new immigrants. That's as good as it is going to get. The bill has to be moderate enough that when Obama vetoes it he looks like the doofus and I think he will veto it no matter what it is. A Republican victory on immigration means a Democratic demise for the forseeable future and Obama can't allow that to happen.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Originally posted by NeekReevers:
I don't really think you can say Republicans dropped the ball when they control 1 house of Congress. Now, I think you can say that when they swear in the new Congress and I am 99% certain they would have dropped the ball but you haven't given them the chance yet.

Everyone knows immigration reform is the key issue for 2016. Obama also knows that with a Republican Congress there is little he can do other than veto a bill. This will be unpopular but it's really his only move. If the Republicans come up with a meaningful bill in the next year, they can still win the issue. Unfortunately, I doubt the Republicans will be able to garner enough support in their own party to get anything passed. There is too wide a gap between the tea party types and the moderates IMO. The winning strategy IMO is for the tea party to suck it up, admit you're not going to have massive deportations or a giant fence, and pass a very moderate bill that allows those here now to stay but limits new immigrants. That's as good as it is going to get. The bill has to be moderate enough that when Obama vetoes it he looks like the doofus and I think he will veto it no matter what it is. A Republican victory on immigration means a Democratic demise for the forseeable future and Obama can't allow that to happen.

Your presciription (the part that I've highlighted) is a recipe for electoral disaster for the GOP in 2016. They can not pass a bill wihtout it including meaningful enahncements to border security and strict enforcment of the border via some means going forward. That doesn't mean it has to be a fence.

This is the very reason nothing has passed to date. The bill Reagan signed was supposd to be a one-off deal followed by enhanced border enforcment and stiff penalties for hiring illegals. The second part never really happened in any meaningful way, and what little in enhcnement that DID occur has gradually been eroded away.

I do agree that it would be preferable to pass a bill that inlcudes some provision for work permits and/or some reasonable path to citizenship and force Obama to veto it, but it must include some meaningful border security enhancement.

 

[TPOKE]

Neek, neither party wanted to touch this legislation with a 10' pole. Democrats had an opportunity for 2 years and knew it was a potential fire storm. Republicans could have written something, had Harry vote it down and turn the tables. Point is, their are millions of productive Hispanics working in this country who aren't going anywhere any time soon, so why not address it?

I agree 100% with Marshall that it needs to involve something to tighten border security to appease the extremeists who want them all deported.

This post was edited on 11/21 9:50 AM by TPOKE

This post was edited on 11/21 9:51 AM by TPOKE

 

[JonnyVito]

No debate on the scriptures? I had no clue Obama was a pastor. Also where is the outrage from all the atheist about keeping church and state separate. I guess that only matters when a Republican is using it.

Obama is dip shit and force feed the American people a BS political speech. If you don't see that this guy doesn't care about America and only about having his name on issue then God help us all.

 

[CBradSmith]

Meaningful border enhancement is the tradeoff. Nobody in their right mind thinks you can deport (even over time) the amount of folks that are here. And if they put that forward, I'd disagree with it.


The people that came here, even illegally, did so in order to bring a better life for themselves and their posterity.But, the rule of law has to be respected in a meaningful democracy. Marsh, if a program to citizenship was, say, 8 years duration, where will the electoral damage you describe come from mostly in 2016? I'm in agreement that republicans need to engage the hispanic community more.I'm absolutely embarrassed for the democrats reliance on race politics. It's shameful.I don't see this as "the" big topic of the 2016 election. I see the squeezing of the middle class as "the" issue, with foreign policy arguably second.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

I think the electoral dmage will come mostly if they pass a bill that DOESN'T include meaningful border security enahncement in some shape or form, that is funded, and required to be phased in prior to the effective date for any path to citizenship.

I agree: I don't believe that immigration reform will be the major topic of the 2016 election.

 

[07pilt]

I am against it because it sets a dangerous precedent for executive action. Normally, cooler heads would prevail and this would get worked out, but there are no cool heads and this could put us on a course for constitutional crisis.

Brilliant politics though.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Your first paragraph is spot on. I fail to see how Obama's move is "brilliant politics" though. I'm certain his tin-eared lackeys believe it is though.

What'd be great is if some big time Republican donor (e.g. Sheldon Adelson) started a concerted effort to help place some of those the Pres. is reportedly trying to reach in good jobs and find good schools for their children, and register them to vote (no ID required of course) as Republicans.

 

[JonnyVito]

Originally posted by Marshal Jim Duncan:


What'd be great is if some big time Republican donor (e.g. Sheldon Adelson) started a concerted effort to help place some of those the Pres. is reportedly trying to reach in good jobs and find good schools for their children, and register them to vote (no ID required of course) as Republicans.

This would really interest me as I basically view this move as Dems buying more votes. They lost an election so instead of listening to what America wants they go buy the votes to push THIER agenda. Nothing more Nothing less.

 

[07pilt]

Originally posted by Marshal Jim Duncan:

Your first paragraph is spot on. I fail to see how Obama's move is "brilliant politics" though. I'm certain his tin-eared lackeys believe it is though.

What'd be great is if some big time Republican donor (e.g. Sheldon Adelson) started a concerted effort to help place some of those the Pres. is reportedly trying to reach in good jobs and find good schools for their children, and register them to vote (no ID required of course) as Republicans.

It isn't brilliant politics in a fantasy world where Sheldon Adelson would do such a thing. Or in a world where all Republicans are as sensible as those on this board about immigration. As it stands we live in this world where republicans will either do nothing or do something as spiteful as possible.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Originally posted by 07pilt:

Originally posted by Marshal Jim Duncan:

Your first paragraph is spot on. I fail to see how Obama's move is "brilliant politics" though. I'm certain his tin-eared lackeys believe it is though.

What'd be great is if some big time Republican donor (e.g. Sheldon Adelson) started a concerted effort to help place some of those the Pres. is reportedly trying to reach in good jobs and find good schools for their children, and register them to vote (no ID required of course) as Republicans.

It isn't brilliant politics in a fantasy world where Sheldon Adelson would do such a thing. Or in a world where all Republicans are as sensible as those on this board about immigration. As it stands we live in this world where republicans will either do nothing or do something as spiteful as possible.

You may have a point. However, polling suggests that < 40% of Americans supported the President's move. And I suspect that the Supreme Court will/would rule what he did unconstituional.

 

[windriverrange]

What will really be fun is once the Supreme Court does rule this unconstitutional how butt hurt all the hopeful freeloaders and their supporters will be.
Anyone who doesn't think you can deport a huge number of these illegal turds needs to look up "operation Wetback" courtesy of The Eisenhower Administration.
The border needs to be secured before anymore amnesty talk goes forward absent that this will repeat itself in another /0 or 30 years.
And lastly Nancy P comparing this to The Emancipation Proclamation has to be one of the goofiest things I've hear from her in a long line of goofy things. What no one is talking about is the potential backlash among other minorities who favored status is now in jeopardy. I suspect when all this is said and done the number of people who will be in favor of this move will be in the mid 30's.
The libs and profs are cowards for not passing these types of bills while they had a majority in the senate & house with the presidency to boot.

Oh Pilt before you take the time to dissect my every sentence like a high school English teacher diagraming a paragraph, your on ignore and don't really have any validity left with me. Too bad because before you started channeling your inner UP you were fun to debate, now your as predictable as Juan Williams.

 

[TPOKE]

I thought pilt was being pretty congenial.

 

[07pilt]

Originally posted by Marshal Jim Duncan:
You may have a point. However, polling suggests that < 40% of Americans supported the President's move. And I suspect that the Supreme Court will/would rule what he did unconstituional.

Despite the lack of enthusiasm this move didn't lose the democrats any votes that they hadn't already lost probably back in 2003. However, if the Republican's bungle this it will sure up the democrat's advantage with the fastest growing demographic for quite some time.

Hopefully the court does strike it down on a near unanimous vote. A 5-4 vote would be disastrous.

 

[imprimis]

Originally posted by gopokes2003:

Originally posted by TPOKE:
What a cluster on immigration. Nobody, meaning either party, wanted to touch it and now martyr obama is going out on his own to make it a bigger mess. It's all about party and not country.

This post was edited on 11/20 7:34 PM by TPOKE

Republicans need to pass comprehensive immigration reform in the next Congress that addresses everything and send it to the Presidents desk. Take the rug right out from under him.

And put a prohibition on voting for 20 years in it. Of course, if you gave Obama everything it would be the prohibition on voting which would doom it.