Reading a lot of stuff about the Methodist Church and its stance on homosexuality

[Ostatedchi]

Kinda reads like a trap.

I would advise anyone that has major struggles with sexual sin, lust, porn, etc to not even consider leadership in the church. The struggle will only become more difficult in that leadership position.

If I was an elder at my church (I’m not), I would advise my fellow elders that such a person is a huge risk to be in leadership and should not be allowed to serve in that way, but anyone suggesting they should not be in fellowship I would disagree with.

Unfortunately these situations are often very nuanced and complicated. I am very well acquainted with someone at our church who is a former lesbian. If you are truly interested, sometime I can try to relate more of that situation or perhaps even put you in contact with her. She’s very vocal about what has and is happening as a result of her past decisions. But for now I have to bail due to a packed evening

The reason I posed that hypothetical is that I know of a woman who meets that description. I also didn't say anything about major struggles. They just have the normal amount of sexual desire as anyone. It's just pointed towards the same sex.

Seems as if you set up some criteria and then said even though they meet them that they shouldn't be allowed.

 

[AC2020]

Thank you, @AC2020, for the link. It gives a clearer interpretation than the other link, but again it comes back to defiling one’s body. See my comment above.

Gotquestions.org has a search function that will connect you to virtually any topic/question that will be answered from an evangelical (I don't even know what that means anymore) biblical perspective.

Pretty interesting perspective on homosexuality and answers a couple of questions you asked earlier.

What does the Bible say about homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin according to the Bible?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Rdcldad]

does it never stop with all good
you do you?

 

[O-State1974]

The schism in the UMC is something I do have high level knowledge of as a lifelong Methodist. I'm so old I was confirmed two years before the merger between the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren in 1968.

The LGBTQ+ controversy is really only the presenting issue in a theological dispute that has resulted in a number of churches leaving the UMC. The controversy is really about whether one believes that the Bible is the inerrant word of God (a traditional view), or whether it is entirely appropriate to update translations and consider the circumstances under which various books were written in determining the significance of various passages (including those cited in this thread dealing with homosexuality). I'm not going to get into examples but there are numerous verses (particularly in the Old Testament) that even traditionalists choose to ignore as irrelevant in today's world.

Currently numerous UMC congregations with clear majorities favoring a traditional view of scripture are leaving because the church is expected to eliminate language in its "Book of Discipline" proscribing gay marriage and participation of gays in the clergy sometime in 2024. Without getting into a discussion of recent events, it is very likely that would have already occurred at least two years ago absent the pandemic, which resulted in a significant delay in holding a worldwide "General Conference". Also some congregations are leaving partly because of what they see as an unwieldy church governance structure with excessive overhead costs.

 

[Medic007]

The schism in the UMC is something I do have high level knowledge of as a lifelong Methodist. I'm so old I was confirmed two years before the merger between the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren in 1968.

The LGBTQ+ controversy is really only the presenting issue in a theological dispute that has resulted in a number of churches leaving the UMC. The controversy is really about whether one believes that the Bible is the inerrant word of God (a traditional view), or whether it is entirely appropriate to update translations and consider the circumstances under which various books were written in determining the significance of various passages (including those cited in this thread dealing with homosexuality). I'm not going to get into examples but there are numerous verses (particularly in the Old Testament) that even traditionalists choose to ignore as irrelevant in today's world.

Currently numerous UMC congregations with clear majorities favoring a traditional view of scripture are leaving because the church is expected to eliminate language in its "Book of Discipline" proscribing gay marriage and participation of gays in the clergy sometime in 2024. Without getting into a discussion of recent events, it is very likely that would have already occurred at least two years ago absent the pandemic, which resulted in a significant delay in holding a worldwide "General Conference". Also some churches are leaving partly because of what they see as an unwieldy church governance structure with excessive overhead costs.

I have zero dog in this fight but would like to thank you for taking the time to provide your thoughts and experience.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Serious question. Is there a new updated translation of the bible being written at this time? To accommodate political purposes? Or are all the denominations just gonna argue and promote their definitions/interpretations? What a god dam discombobulation church leaders today have led their flock into. Driven first by money then political preference. Religion as it should be was lost a long time ago.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

I’ll sum things up by saying this: I’ll be a lot more accepting of gays/homosexuals when those that are gay/homosexuals accept that what they are doing is a sin.

I say sleepy should buy em an island then build a pride church even on the taxpayers dime. A big island.

 

[AC2020]

Serious question. Is there a new updated translation of the bible being written at this time? To accommodate political purposes? Or are all the denominations just gonna argue and promote their definitions/interpretations? What a god dam discombobulation church leaders today have led their flock into. Driven first by money then political preference. Religion as it should be was lost a long time ago.

Translations aren't written, they're translations.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Translations aren't written, they're translations.

Opinions work? 👍

 

[SUPERPOKES]

Translations aren't written, they're translations.

What’s happening today has nothing to do with the translation of the Bible. It has everything to do with changing the interpretation of the Bible.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

What’s happening today has nothing to do with the translation of the Bible. It has everything to do with changing the interpretation of the Bible.

Yes, he got a little carried away with semantics.

 

[O-State1974]

Serious question. Is there a new updated translation of the bible being written at this time? To accommodate political purposes? Or are all the denominations just gonna argue and promote their definitions/interpretations? What a god dam discombobulation church leaders today have led their flock into. Driven first by money then political preference. Religion as it should be was lost a long time ago.

If you’re that interested there are some great channels on YouTube that cover that sort of thing. I think Ready to Harvest is the best.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

If you’re that interested there are some great channels on YouTube that cover that sort of thing. I think Ready to Harvest is the best.

I'm not a religious man but I recognize how religion is used to control folks and it's sad imo, whether political or for religious purposes. Only an idiot couldn't recognize it. After all, shit britches claims to be religious. 😁

 

[O-State1974]

I'm not a religious man but I recognize how religion is used to control folks and it's sad imo, whether political or for religious purposes. Only an idiot couldn't recognize it. After all, shit britches claims to be religious. 😁

So it wasn’t a serious question. Fine with me. At least in the U.S. we have the first amendment, many countries do not offer freedom of religion or freedom from religion.

 

[AC2020]

Yes, he got a little carried away with semantics.

It's not semantics.

It's the actual meaning of the word.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Similar schism taking place with Catholic bishops in Germany. Pretty obvious to those of us who grew up in Realville that the German bishops are trying to “sell” Catholicism to younger Germans for the purpose of increasing the number of government-registered Catholics, and thus increasing their coffers under the German “church tax”. If a church redefines sin to increase its membership, then it is not “of God”, but rather “of man”, in which case it really has no reason to exist.

 

[07pilt]

All this moralizing gibberish and no one can point to the place in the Bible where it explains WHY homosexuality is a sin. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

Because it was a health hazard in the year 1000 BC. Fornication, was a property crime.

 

[22LR]

Because it was a hell hazard in the year 1000 BC.

Fixed it.

 

[07pilt]

Fixed it.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Bible Verses about Homosexuality​

Leviticus 18:22 ~ You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 ~ If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Jude 1:7 ~ Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

Romans 1:26-28 ~ For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Mark 10:6-9 ~ But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’ ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

25 Bible Verses about Homosexuality - What Does Scripture Say?

These Bible verses aren't about condemning homosexuals, gays, lesbians, or transgender people. Rather, read God's loving warning and grace for those who have strayed from His will for sex

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[Marocain Poke]

So many churches and temples adopting the DNC/libtardian platform word for word. The Presbyterians started it about 12 years ago, and it's spreading like wildfire.

 

[O-State1974]

So many churches and temples adopting the DNC/libtardian platform word for word. The Presbyterians started it about 12 years ago, and it's spreading like wildfire.

It's frankly not about politics, there are pro-gay people in both parties. Nonetheless I understand why some people see it as intertwined with politics.

The issue in the UMC has been there for much longer than 12 years, it just took many years for the numbers of people supporting change in the US to grow sufficiently to force change.

The Episcopal Church, another denomination rooted in the Church of England, has gradually adopted pro-gay policies beginning during the 2000's leading to various dioceses withdrawing to form the Anglican Church in North America back in 2008.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Where in the bible or for that matter anywhere else does it say people are morally obligated to celebrate or agree homosexuality? Personally I don't care what you do in your bedroom, provided it's with consenting ADULTS but I don't want to know about it and damn sure don't want to be forced to celebrate it

 

[squeak]

I don’t care if anyone is gay or not, just stop asking me to wear the damn pride lanyard at work.

 

[squeak]

Also, 44% of millennials think misgendering should be a criminal offense.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Also, 44% of millennials think misgendering should be a criminal offense.

Most stupid, lazy and unamerican generation this country has ever had.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Most stupid, lazy and unamerican generation this country has ever had.

Sleepy joe has enlightened some of them though. They might just be smarter than we give em credit for. I ain't give up on em yet.

 

[JimmyBob]

I don’t care if anyone is gay or not, just stop asking me to wear the damn pride lanyard at work.

Danged youngsta. Hell, if you were old enough to RETIRE, that issue goes away!!

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Danged youngsta. Hell, if you were old enough to RETIRE, that issue goes away!!

Cmon man, we can't give up on our youngins.

 

[squeak]

Danged youngsta. Hell, if you were old enough to RETIRE, that issue goes away!!

I’m a decade or so away!

 

[JimmyBob]

I’m a decade or so away!

Pace yourself and enjoy it!!

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Pace yourself and enjoy it!!

No matter how we try to pace it, the promotion of gays ain't goin away my man. As disgusting as it is. Dimms agenda.

 

[Marocain Poke]

I don’t care if anyone is gay or not, just stop asking me to wear the damn pride lanyard at work.

Hope you get the reference.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Hope you get the reference.

Guy just fapped out. 911?

 

[SUPERPOKES]

No matter how we try to pace it, the promotion of gays ain't goin away my man. As disgusting as it is. Dimms agenda.

You can’t turn back the clock. Look what the SCOTUS ruling has done to libs. They’re in a frenzy.

Same things with drugs. Weed will just be the tip of the iceberg with that vice. Prostitution will be legalized soon and it won’t be long until the F-bomb will be allowed on network television.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

You can’t turn back the clock. Look what the SCOTUS ruling has done to libs. They’re in a frenzy.

Same things with drugs. Weed will just be the tip of the iceberg with that vice. Prostitution will be legalized soon and it won’t be long until the F-bomb will be allowed on network television.

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle.

Nanshee tried till "hammertime" Paul got hammered.

 

[davidallen]

You’ve hit upon a great point that is missed among many in today’s society. There are a lot of things that the Bible considers sin which, by many in today’s society who don’t know the Word, aren’t even aware of some things that are actually sins, according to the Bible.

For instance, many don’t realize that working on the Sabbath (Sunday) is considered a sin (this is why Chik fil A and Hobby Lobby is closed on Sunday). This type of thing is taken for granted in today’s world, especially as more people live in the city versus the country or small towns. I’m reminded of this when i see the Andy Griffith Show episode where Opie is bartering with a friend after church and Andy reminds him “no trading on Sunday.”

My point? Things that used to be obvious sin - including cheating on your spouse or premarital sex - are socially acceptable today (at least more so than used to be) and people who say it’s wrong are called old fashioned.

Of course, as the years go by, the more unbelievable things that used to be clear sins - abortion and homosexuality come to mind for me - the more acceptable they are becoming in society. It makes me cringe at what will be acceptable 50 years from now that is unfathomable in today’s society.

Don't forget the shrimp.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Don't forget the shrimp.

What you folks do?

 

[squeak]

Hope you get the reference.

Yes, the AIDS ribbon!