OK State vs. Wyoming

[TheJimReaper]

Sorry for not post updates after VV’s match I got distracted and completely forgot.

But overall as others have said I thought we wrestled well aside from 141. Not sure what’s going on with Carter but hopefully he gets it figured out. Sheets looks really good at 165 so I hope he stays there.

Also Voinovich will be a stud I’ve been impressed with him so far. He’s going take on Blockhus from Minnesota next Sunday so that should be a good match

 

[osu2082]

Pretty sure Mastro didn’t take any shots but gutted it out for a win despite. Kid really knows how to keep them close.

Carter just hasn’t looked good in any of the 3 matches so far. Hope he turns a corner with so much hype. He probably needs to redshirt next year.

Everyone else looked sharp.

Carter is a 133. They have tried to add weight but he hasn’t been able to hold the needed size and strength yet. A RS would really help him.

It will be interesting to watch to TW can keep the size he needs at 184 all season. The early signs are positive for him at his new weight.

 

[JAY45]

Impressions on the match. Overall a solid B in my books. We led in Takedownbs 13-1 with their one TD in the Carter match.Carter was the aggressor but could not get a takedown despite several close shots in the 3rd period but both too close to the edge. We had two falls from Fix and Surber and one major from Plott. Mastro with no takedowns but solid ride and escape gave him the win against a very good freshman. Fix had his way with his opponent with two takedowns, a 4 point near fall and then a pin in 1:30.
Voinovich had a quick escape, a takedown, a 2 pt near fall and a dominant ride out for a 6-0 win.G gave up a TD in 1st period but but had a reverse and a near fall in 2nd period and a strong ride in the 3rd to win 6-3. Witlake had 3 takedowns in his match to win 6-3 and looked strong. Surber got a first period takedown and then with a turk ride turned him over for the fall in the first. Doucet
had a reverse, near-fall and riding time against 2 escapes for a 5-2 win and a 34-3 match score.We looked to be in better shape and the one disappointment was Carter who gave up his leg too easily on a counter by his opponent and then chased him all over the mat but could not quite finish. As Harley indicated the opponent was not ranked but had a 5-0 record going into the match.Carter started too late and could not get the TD after several very close calls on the edge. He has the ability to dominate his opponent and this is not happening.My prediction was off at the start of the thread as I gave 197 to Buchanan who did not wrestle so we only had one loss.

Fantastic recap!

 

[ionel]

Carter is a 133. They have tried to add weight but he hasn’t been able to hold the needed size and strength yet. A RS would really help him.

If true (I have doubts) maybe he should've hung out with G during the off season.

 

[TheJimReaper]

If true (I have doubts) maybe he should've hung out with G during the off season.

If he did hang out with G, Young might’ve ended up at 165.

 

[alex1fly]

Carter is a 133. They have tried to add weight but he hasn’t been able to hold the needed size and strength yet. A RS would really help him.

It will be interesting to watch to TW can keep the size he needs at 184 all season. The early signs are positive for him at his new weight.

Could Jordan Williams make 141? Maybe it’s not too late to redshirt Carter this season.

 

[DPJ]

Could Jordan Williams make 141? Maybe it’s not too late to redshirt Carter this season.

He's wrestling 149 this weekend so I would assume he has time to go down. No idea if he's planning on going to 41 this year or not

 

[alex1fly]

Maybe with John’s firm “the best guy will wrestle” statement we’ll see some other faces at 141. Sucks to see Carter continue to struggle with unranked opponents especially if it’s mainly due to a size mismatch.

 

[turfpoke]

Maybe with John’s firm “the best guy will wrestle” statement we’ll see some other faces at 141. Sucks to see Carter continue to struggle with unranked opponents especially if it’s mainly due to a size mismatch.

Have to think Dusty Hone would be 3-0 vs that competition.

 

[Harleycowboy]

Maybe with John’s firm “the best guy will wrestle” statement we’ll see some other faces at 141. Sucks to see Carter continue to struggle with unranked opponents especially if it’s mainly due to a size mismatch.

Jordan Williams may be our only 2022 recruit who has a chance to be a real good wrestler. Also my view is Voinovich at 149 and Jordan gaining strength and size to take the 157 next year. I guess they could switch weights but. To take him out of redshirt would be foolish, as would G taking 149 from Voinovich. I think 1 reason they have not redshirted Carter because we have Cael Hughes coming in next year ( 33-41). Carter doesn't look small to me but 2082 certainly could be right. I think Carters problems this year watching matches is his lack of focus where he gets taken down, his not being aggressive enough and his shots have not been of great quality or frequency and therefore not enough takedowns. To mess with our future for this year seems foolish because we don't have enough real good wrestlers to be a top 5 team. We need this development that Coach Smith is talking about( low All Americans) to set up the future. To be honest this type of development in a wrestling season has been rare for us.

 

[turfpoke]

Carter needs to find clean shots and quit getting into 45 second to 1 minute scrambles.

 

[ionel]

Carter needs to find clean shots and quit getting into 45 second to 1 minute scrambles.

^^^ this ^^^

 

[Wrassler17]

Could Jordan Williams make 141? Maybe it’s not too late to redshirt Carter this season.

Carter can't redshirt this year because he's already wrestled attached. So even if Jordan Williams certified at 141, it would be wasting a year for Carter.

 

[JAY45]

Jordan Williams may be our only 2022 recruit who has a chance to be a real good wrestler. Also my view is Voinovich at 149 and Jordan gaining strength and size to take the 157 next year. I guess they could switch weights but. To take him out of redshirt would be foolish, as would G taking 149 from Voinovich. I think 1 reason they have not redshirted Carter because we have Cael Hughes coming in next year ( 33-41). Carter doesn't look small to me but 2082 certainly could be right. I think Carters problems this year watching matches is his lack of focus where he gets taken down, his not being aggressive enough and his shots have not been of great quality or frequency and therefore not enough takedowns. To mess with our future for this year seems foolish because we don't have enough real good wrestlers to be a top 5 team. We need this development that Coach Smith is talking about( low All Americans) to set up the future. To be honest this type of development in a wrestling season has been rare for us.

Interested to hear more of your thoughts here…

Williams is clearly the gem of the class…an “A” Level Elite Recruit (Top 10-15 in his class).

Being overly objective,

Blankenship is likely a “B” Level Recruit (Top 50-75ish?) without having complete focus on wrestling in H.S.

Cutter is perhaps a level below that. (Top 100+).

Is this way off from what you are saying?
By “real good” do you mean Elite?
Doesn’t Blankenship have the ability to be “real good”?

 

[Old Number Nine]

The most noteworthy thing about the match to me (besides Carter sucking) was that Witlake and Surber looked like completely different people,

 

[leecothran]

The most noteworthy thing about the match to me (besides Carter sucking) was that Witlake and Surber looked like completely different people,

Their opponents were smaller. Wittlake's matches last week were both taller, longer guys. On Friday it was a smaller guy.

Surber's opponent was a backup 184.

 

[Sebastian]

Interested to hear more of your thoughts here…

Williams is clearly the gem of the class…an “A” Level Elite Recruit (Top 10-15 in his class)
Being overly objective,

Blankenship is likely a “B” Level Recruit (Top 50-75ish?) without having complete focus on wrestling in H.S.

Cutter is perhaps a level below that. (Top 100+).

Is this way off from what you are saying?
By “real good” do you mean Elite?
Doesn’t Blankenship have the ability to be “real good”?

Of course there is a chance somebody comes in, developes, gains in skill and strength/conditioning and blossoms into a star. But that is generally a long shot. Williams has elite quickness, the one thing you can’t obtain that when combined with things he can gain/control like strength, lungs and knowledge, leaves him with the better chance to excel. The other two don’t have it. Blankenship has incredible strength I think, but his lack of length will hurt and he is quick but not elite with it. Cutter just knows more wrestling than most kids which gave him some success. Now conditioning can be a huge factor in blowing out opponents late in matches, Blankenship seemed really well-conditioned in the few times I saw him in HS. Bixby has a good S&C program. Haven’t seen Cutter but assume he is like his brother just maybe even less developed. Point is Williams may have an ability the others can’t get no matter how hard they try. All 3 can develop everything else….even to the point of being elite. But will they?

 

[Harleycowboy]

Interested to hear more of your thoughts here…

Williams is clearly the gem of the class…an “A” Level Elite Recruit (Top 10-15 in his class)
Being overly objective,

Blankenship is likely a “B” Level Recruit (Top 50-75ish?) without having complete focus on wrestling in H.S.

Cutter is perhaps a level below that. (Top 100+).

Is this way off from what you are saying?
By “real good” do you mean Elite?
Doesn’t Blankenship have the ability to be “real good”?

In assessing the Cowboy Program our failure has been in having too many good wrestlers and not enough really good wrestlers. Really good wrestlers will finish in the top 4 at Nationals (close) and good wrestlers will qualify for Nationals and finish in the top 16. To challenge for a National Team title you have to have lots of wrestlers place in the top 4 and several have to be finalists. The big points at Nationals occur making the semi's, finals or consolation semifinals. Placing 6th, 7th or 8th gives very few team points. We have not had very many real good wrestlers for about 16 years compared certainly to Penn. St. who have had so many real good wrestlers. The problem has been except for the last 3 years we did not seem to put energy and forethought ( recruit juniors). Hiring Tyler Caldwell was a very good move. Also even with the recruiting improvements we continue to have bad luck with injuries and other problems with our top recruits. Also our possible lack of developing A and B level recruits has been a problem. Jay correctly indicates Jordan Williams as an A level recruit but his results at 149 at Lindenwood was disappointing. Blankenship won at 125 and yes he could develop into a real good wrestler. Real good or good are just words I decided to use in describing our wrestlers. Yes you have to have 5 or 6 real good (elite) wrestlers who Place in the top 4 to win a team title. We have 2 wrestlers ranked to finish in the top 4 which may get us in the top 12, One more thing right now we are a much better dual team than tournament team in my view.

 

[Wrassler17]

Quick take on Jordan Williams & Zach Blankenship at Lindenwood, realizing it wasn't the toughest competition...

Agree with DPJ's post from yesterday - Jordan had some really nice TDs, gave up a couple of sloppy ones, and needs work on bottom. Typical freshman stuff. Also needs to get stronger. He's very quick and seems to rely on that right now. Look forward to seeing his positioning and setups improve. Obviously a very high ceiling. Keep climbing.

Zach has a nice stance, good balance, and quick feet. He will be tough to score on IMO. He hit a couple of double legs and his trademark spladle. Willie had Blankenship #34 overall on his final Big Board. Said he likes Blankenship at 133, but loves him if he can go 125.

 

[osu2082]

Quick take on Jordan Williams & Zach Blankenship at Lindenwood, realizing it wasn't the toughest competition...

Agree with DPJ's post from yesterday - Jordan had some really nice TDs, gave up a couple of sloppy ones, and needs work on bottom. Typical freshman stuff. Also needs to get stronger. He's very quick and seems to rely on that right now. Look forward to seeing his positioning and setups improve. Obviously a very high ceiling. Keep climbing.

Zach has a nice stance, good balance, and quick feet. He will be tough to score on IMO. He hit a couple of double legs and his trademark spladle. Willie had Blankenship #34 overall on his final Big Board. Said he likes Blankenship at 133, but loves him if he can go 125.

Blankenship is still rounding into shape from summer surgeries. When I talked to him in late April/Early May, he felt very confident he could and would hold 125 for awhile.

 

[Okie_Pat]

I think it’s a little unfair to say that we haven’t had many real good wrestlers in the last 16 years. We currently have 2 guys ranked in the top 4. I know that’s a far cry from where we want and should be at but we have also had injuries along with some knuckleheads that are no longer on the team. If one said knucklehead was still on this team we could have potentially 3 national finalists this year. It’s hard to compete with the success that Penn st has had the last 10 years, but the best way we can is by developing those top 10-20 class guys into future AA’s. That’s been the biggest struggle and will continue to be the biggest hurdle for us moving forward. A lot falls on the individual and not just the coaches or the program. Caldwell has done a great job the last few years brining in top talent but you need more at this level than just talent. We need guys who have that drive and the “eye of the tiger”. That’s why I really like Voinovich. From what I hear he has been working his tail off.

 

[vhsalum]

interesting we can all admit that G, Sheets and Wittlake look better and more energetic at their current weights.

And yet, John will still cut them down...

 

[Harleycowboy]

I think it’s a little unfair to say that we haven’t had many real good wrestlers in the last 16 years. We currently have 2 guys ranked in the top 4. I know that’s a far cry from where we want and should be at but we have also had injuries along with some knuckleheads that are no longer on the team. If one said knucklehead was still on this team we could have potentially 3 national finalists this year. It’s hard to compete with the success that Penn st has had the last 10 years, but the best way we can is by developing those top 10-20 class guys into future AA’s. That’s been the biggest struggle and will continue to be the biggest hurdle for us moving forward. A lot falls on the individual and not just the coaches or the program. Caldwell has done a great job the last few years brining in top talent but you need more at this level than just talent. We need guys who have that drive and the “eye of the tiger”. That’s why I really like Voinovich. From what I hear he has been working his tail off.

I typed even with the improved recruiting we continue to have bad luck with injuries and other problems with our top recruits ( another example is Travis Mastrogiavanni who is a top recruit who hardly ever wrestles). But coaching a top program everyone focuses on results ( after this year it will be 17 years without a team National Title). Who has been here 17 years? I agree why is there a lack of development, probably the answer is very complicated. I do know this, stuck on 34 has been very painful and frustrating. Coach Smith is ultimately responsible and I haven't liked the administration in Stillwater admitting they have not shown proper respect for or backing the program as they should have.

 

[Harleycowboy]

I typed even with the improved recruiting we continue to have bad luck with injuries and other problems with our top recruits ( another example is Travis Mastrogiavanni who is a top recruit who hardly ever wrestles). But coaching a top program everyone focuses on results ( after this year it will be 17 years without a team National Title). Who has been here 17 years? I agree why is there a lack of development, probably the answer is very complicated. I do know this, stuck on 34 has been very painful and frustrating. Coach Smith is ultimately responsible and I haven't liked the administration in Stillwater admitting they have not shown proper respect for or backing the program as they should have.

Another wrestler that is hard to understand is Carter Young. Over a week ago he lost 4 to 2 against Darren Miller of Bucknell. This weekend Miller lost in the Navy finals to Brock Hardy rated 24th of Nebraska 9 to 1. Two weeks ago NDSU beat Nebraska and Droegemueller beat Hardy 10 to 4. This weekend Carter lost to Greenwood who is rated 60th by wrestling stat( used that rating because Greenwood is in that rating system). Yes our wrestler's results are hard to understand. As stated in another post I think the problem is focus and really going after shots and he will get better. But his results are stunning. Many on this forum thought he would be a star but i thought he did so good at seniors 61kg because it was consolations and these national champs he beat were not really into it, its freestyle and Carter wrestled at his absolute best. He still could be a real good wrestler but he hasn't shown any improvement between his true freshman year and this his second year which many wrestlers jump a whole level. Maybe he is injured but I don't see a major injury. Cowboy wrestling in general has been hard to understand.

 

[Okie_Pat]

Its frustrating when you focus on the guys like Trevor Mastro and Carter Young, guys who were highly rated and are supposed to be performing at a high level and making big jumps but havent up to this point. I completely agree with those things. But there are guys like Voinovich who up to this point looks ready to compete for AA and Doucet who you can tell has really put in the extra work. We dont know what their ceiling is, but those are 2 guys that have cearly developed and could potentailly score some points at nationals. I think mastro was unfortunately just really banged up last year and i expect him to be in AA talks later in the season. As far as Carter, I just really dont know. I think he is much better than what we have seen so far and I believe he will improve as the season goes on. It just seems like his offense is a little one dimensional with that single leg sweep and he seems to be rushing or forcing it, shooting in space and getting flattened out. When he made that big run on the backside for the national team trails he was hitting that shot and finishing well. He even scored on Daton with it. So i just really dont know.

 

[Wrassler17]

Following up on Harley's point about the need for really good wrestlers...here are the top 10 PFP recruits and the recruits ranked 11-20 PFP over the last 10 years. #s come from Intermat - so I believe that's Willie's final Big Boards, plus Earl Smith's rankings for the pre Willie years.

OSU - 8 top 10 PFP, 7 between 11-20 PFP

Top 10 PFP
Marsteller #2
Picc 7
Brock 9
Fix 1
Wittlake 3
Ferrari 1
Plott 4
Williams 10

11-20 PFP:
Heil #13
Rogers (Chandler) 13
Blees 16
Joe Smith 16
Gfeller 15
Mastro (Trevor) 14
Voinovich 15

So we've had a total of 15 in the top 20 PFP.

Edit
#s for some other big programs...PSU & tOSU are top heavy...
PSU - top 10: 18, 11-20: 6, total top 20: 24
tOSU - top 10: 17, 11-20: 2, total top 20: 19
Iowa - top 10: 6, 11-20: 5, total top 20: 11

Obviously doesn't include any impact transfers.

 

[dvpoke25]

 

[ionel]

View embedded media

Speculation is OU.

 

[osudog]

That’s a dumb one if he goes to Ou.

 

[ionel]

That’s a dumb one if he goes to Ou.

Speculation is he is following Ware to OU, no that doesn't make sense but any enrolling at OU seems dumb and yet every year ...

 

[Mrgrapple]

I think OU has 7 starters who are transfers . At least some of the time.

 

[Wrassler17]

A few years back, Chris Bono called RTCs the wild wild west. Seems like that may apply to NIL & the transfer portal too. Here are some things reported/posted. You can decide if they are legit.

- Chris Pendleton said it's guaranteed recruits & transfers are being offered NIL $. A recruit told him he was promised a certain amount by a school and then asked how much Chris could get him.
- Willie said Iowa & Michigan were being reported for tampering. Supposedly Michigan was after Wyoming's Buchanan & Iowa was after O'Connor from UNC & Willits from Oregon St.
- Askren said PSU offered Real Woods $100K NIL. Mineo said Iowa offered $200K.
- A poster on the Iowa board said Michigan won the bidding war for Suriano over ISU, PSU, and Ohio St. Supposedly got $150K NIL. This poster has connections to ISU.
- A poster on the Ohio St board said Bo Nickal contacted Nick Feldman and offered him 6 figures in NIL $ to flip to PSU. Feldman reportedly answered "I'm good". Poster claims his source is rock solid.

 

[CowboyUp61]

A few years back, Chris Bono called RTCs the wild wild west. Seems like that may apply to NIL & the transfer portal too. Here are some things reported/posted. You can decide if they are legit.

- Chris Pendleton said it's guaranteed recruits & transfers are being offered NIL $. A recruit told him he was promised a certain amount by a school and then asked how much Chris could get him.
- Willie said Iowa & Michigan were being reported for tampering. Supposedly Michigan was after Wyoming's Buchanan & Iowa was after O'Connor from UNC & Willits from Oregon St.
- Askren said PSU offered Real Woods $100K NIL. Mineo said Iowa offered $200K.
- A poster on the Iowa board said Michigan won the bidding war for Suriano over ISU, PSU, and Ohio St. Supposedly got $150K NIL. This poster has connections to ISU.
- A poster on the Ohio St board said Bo Nickal contacted Nick Feldman and offered him 6 figures in NIL $ to flip to PSU. Feldman reportedly answered "I'm good". Poster claims his source is rock solid.

i think there is probably legitimacy to all of those. The numbers may be off, or inflated, but it is probably happening.

The NCAA needs to pull it's head out. If any of those mentioned were connected to OSU, we would have the entire NCAA compliance department bedded down on the floor of Gallagher

 

[topc22blue]

That’s a dumb one if he goes to Ou.

Teyon Ware connection?

 

[MiccoMacey]

Teyon Ware connection?

Teyon recently replaced Michael Lightner at OU as the new assistant coach.