NCAA PORTAL
- Thread starter Pokes1988
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Having multiple title contenders at the same weight on one team is bad for the sport of wrestling. Title contenders need to be on different teams, competing against each other in live competition. This is far better for the fans, for all the wrestling schools out there, for all the media outlets covering the sport and for the title contenders themselves. Having one team hole up multiple titles contenders at a weight and one rides the bench and doesn't compete and represent a team nationally is a real shame and detrimental for the future of our sport as is one team completely dominating the sport and there never being a competitive national tournament.
... or, they are looking to a freestyle career and they believe State College is the best place to be to attain that. I believe that was Welsh's thought process.
I can see Nagao leaving unless he mans 141 for a year to give Blaze a RS.
There is no doubt that is the thought process for most of these kids. But you know how you also get better wrestling ... by wrestling. Most of these kids are not going to be served by sitting the bench and not seeing actual competition for 3 years (if ever). It is these kids careers and choices so more power to them but you can't convince me being this inactive is good for them (even if they are part of an awesome room).
Why? Ryder knew the deal on day one. If you're afraid of wrestling a guy in the room then you aren't going to be a champion. Also, it isn't like Cael recruited Welsh. Welsh wanted to come back to PA and target 2028.
All that said, I think Ryder is the real deal and wins the spot.
Point taken, but from 157-197 at PSU for the next several years, I dare say that practice is likely tougher than nationals. Doesn't mean guys like Lockett aren't better but there would be more consistency in the PSU room. Guys wanting to practice toward an Olympic run have no better place to go (no offense). Everything I heard from Welsh is that 2028 is his target.
Welsh has the feel of a wanting to leave anOSU situation rather than Cael prying Welsh from anOSU. And you certainly don't turn down a former NCAA runner-up who wants to join the team.
So here's the situation. Haines has one year left at 174 with a redshirt available. Its unusual that a wrestler would use a redshirt heading into a senior season but you never know. Welsh stated in his interview that he's staying at 174 in the off-season for freestyle but wants to wrestle at 184 for next season. Ryder used his redshirt this season and wrestled at 184. He wrestled at 174 the year before when he was at M2. So, if Haines doesn't use his redshirt, either Ryder or Welsh will not be the starter next season. Its possible one could go back down and compete at 174 the following season.
But to further complicate the situation, William Henckel, another top tier prospect, is coming in next season somewhere in the upper weights. He'll redshirt but there will be high level competition 174-197 through the following year (with Mesenbrink still at 165 for the next two years). Then we have Josh Barr who was a 184 but moved up to 197 to get into the lineup. Obviously that went pretty well but that also adds to the logjam with Connor Mirasola, yet another top prospect, looking like the odd man out.
Anyway, its 1st world problems at Penn State. For the "bad for wrestling crowd", it will all shake out and I'm sure there will be some more transfers in the future. Nobody is holding a gun to these kids making them go to Penn State. NIL and the portal, for better or worse, has completely changed the landscape. These top-level guys have options that they didn't have before. They aren't going to sit on the bench for 3 years.
Anyone that is upset with PSU/Cael for how he has set them up is just jealous. Let’s be honest. However, while I don’t blame PSU, you surely do realize what they mean by bad for wrestling right? Honestly asking. Bad isn’t a good word maybe but wouldn’t it be better if you have 8 AA level kids spread across 8 programs compared to 8 AA level kids spread across 5 programs? That’s how I see that argument at least.
For sure you can't argue with the room but at some point if you want to make the Oympics don't you need some actual mat experience in high pressure situations? Maybe I'm naïve and getting to practice with that room every day offsets it but I just can't get past the thought one of Ryder or Rocco is going to sit for two years. How can that be good for one them?
was it bad for wrestling when OSU won all those titles in a row? Was it bad for wrestling when Iowa won all those titles in a row? Wrestling has suffered because of Title IX and lately NIL. There is nothing historically bad about a powerhouse in any sport. UCLA in basketball. UCONN in womens BB.
Probably. There’s a reason professional sports make sure to put controls in place to promote some amount of parity. It’s better for the product
Nobody is forcing the kids to do anything and I don't blame Penn State in the slightest. That being said this notion that Rocco just showed up is so naïve. Penn State recruited him and he is getting money to be there. He didn't just "show up."
They aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think Penn State is doing anything wrong but I also think it is terrible for the sport. Having a bunch of guys who can be high AAs not seeing the mat is just not good for the sport as a whole. I don't think having either Rocco or Ryder being MIA from the sport for two years is good. But like you said, no one is forcing these kids to do it. It is just baffling to me.
Comparing any of those situations to what is happening right now is apples to oranges. The team race is over. No team has a chance. Nebraska wrestled out of their minds and had zero chance to win. They lost by 60 points. Did they even mention the team race on the finals broadcast? The team aspect of college wrestling is basically dead.
You also throw in the fact that most dominating force in college wrestling doesn't care about duals.
Do I blame Penn State for any of this? No but I don't think it is great for a sport that is looking at some potentially dark times ahead.
I mean I think the reality is that yeah, PSU is hoarding talent, but you wanna know what OSU (or Iowa, or tOSU) can do to fix that? Beat their guys on the mat. Hamiti did it to Haines, Hendrickson did it to Kerkvliet. Prove that you as a staff can match the development that Carl and his guys can pull off. Take a guy like Facundo (if he comes) and get him to AA. Get a guy like Dee to AA (or even be a finalist) as a freshman and then get him a couple of natties. If you win by development, those guys PSU has on the bench and high school recruits will start thinking.
I get what you're saying but I doubt either Ryder or Welsh will ride pine for 3 seasons. If one of them can't crack the lineup, they'll go somewhere else. It just delays seeing them on another team for one season.
For example, Beard left the season after he lost the spot to Max Dean and went on to AA for Lehigh the following season. Bear Claw left for Utah Valley and AA'd this season. Hopefully Facundo will AA wherever he ends up next season.
I'd argue that the guys who end up transferring at least got a developmental benefit from training with best at Penn State that's useful to bring to their new teams.
@Air_Thurman
I didn't say that Welsh just "showed up". There had to be some discussions before he committed and he mentioned that in his interview.
The landscape was different then too. Had Cael been able to use the portal like is now available, he likely wouldn’t of punted.
Did we say it’s bad that PSU is dominating?
We said it’s bad that PSU 2 deep would probably be top 6 at NCAAs. Don’t twist it please.
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All reasonable takes, but my question was is it good for wrestling that PSU has guys on their bench at almost every weight that could make a run at a podium if they were starters else where?
Heard a rumor. Carrol is coming back and. Merril is going to 184. Anyone heard this scuttle butt?
Perry… coming back? That wouldn’t make any sense.
To a far lesser extent, it has been bad in the past at times. But what Penn State is doing right now is in an entirely different universe than anything in the past. It's not about winning a bunch of titles
I do agree with you. However I think what Cael has done is much less about developing his talent than simply amassing a room full of guys who were world level wrestlers before they came there and keeping this pool of talent from other schools.
Potential interest of CC coming back has been rumored in this thread recently. What have you heard?
Idk I’ll trust DT but I kind of hope this isn’t true. I’m not sure I like bumping down Merrill for someone as unproven as Carroll. Assuming this is true that is.
Known more for a mullet than his wrestling career. Maybe I should have said poverty hair cut instead!
I currently predict Merril would beat him so he is probably fine either way. He was within two points of the natty champ this year.
A lot of folks speculating that CM is going 84 next year regardless. I'm curious to know what the plan is with him
Second hand from someone who knows a Flo wrestling guy that said Carrol wants to come back. Now will we take him is another question.
Merril could be a finalist possibly at 84 if he is anywhere near that tourney performance where he took down an AA or two and lost by 2 to Buchanan.
The tricky part, as everyone is already aware, is taking someone back that left and now has questionable commitment issues after commitments out of HS so many times and already having transferred and left ISU.
That said, he's an upgrade at either 197 and probably at hwt too, no? Are there better portal options?
Is he? I'm a fan of talent so I would welcome him back but he looked really bad last year.
I have this memory of Carroll losing to NDSU 197 Glover a true freshman listed at 174 and so thinking boy, Glover must be special. Glover was an average 197 at best. I sure would want to know what explained Carroll's horrible wrestling this year.
84 is going to be most competitive weight at top with Ferrari, Mac, Ryder/Rocco, Merrill.
I’ve seen mention of him having family issues a couple times. Obviously no specifics but that could definitely mess with your head.
Better than 97 though where you have to go through some national champs.
Figured for some it was related to semantics.
•Continue to build
•Win the Big 12 Tournament
•Fight for 2nd
•Continue to close the gap (be patient)
