If PSU and Iowa were able to pull this off at a great venue and bring in someone who was putting up $1 million that went straight to wrestling programs I would be pissed if we didn't participate because it was in Iowa or Pennsylvania.
National Duals
- Thread starter OSUBigBadBob
- Start date
Good call. Just booked two nights at the Hyatt (theyre filling up fast) for less than one night at B12s.
We should stop simping to PSU and go ahead and enjoy the tournament. If the tournament is inevitable, they will come join. Right now the wrestling is concentrated a lot around BIG area. Having National dual close to OSU is a threat to PSU. Rotating the venue might help. But, ultimately PSU will do all things they can to avoid it.
Main reason why PSU doesnt do home/home with OSU anymore. To maintain the status quo.
Main reason why PSU doesnt do home/home with OSU anymore. To maintain the status quo.
I would be pissed too. However, you have to understand how PSU is in a much different position than we are. They do not need the money and are fighting like dogs to preserve the status quo. Iowa is in a little different position, which is why I believe they are thinking harder about participating.
This will be an awesome event whether PSU wants to be a part of it or not. People always ask how you bring new fans into the sport. Events like this are a great start. Cael can sit in his castle counting his team trophies while the rest of the sport enjoys an awesome event.
Love the idea but $200k to the winner is peanuts, I thought it was the winner gets a milly
$200K is not peanuts to any program.
Winter is coming for Olympic sports. A wrestling program getting to add $200K to their bottom line in a weekend is a big deal.
$200k is a significant budget filler for almost every non-Blue Blood Football school. Is it Program changing money? To some, but it is most definitely an option that helps not cutting a Program too.
I mentioned nothing about growing the sport in my response. You said more schools would consider going if this was a charitable contribution. This implied to me that you think 20k-200k is nothing to most wrestling schools and that they would be more interested in supporting a cause than some extra cash. My statement is that what I believe you implied is out of touch. How that makes me out of touch, I am not sure? I also wasn’t trying to be condescending about how I said it. Truly felt your opinion won’t be shared by 85% of the programs.
If you’re implying that this event only helps the winner which is likely to be a school that doesn’t “need” the 200k, then I think that’s shortsighted.
This isn’t just a rich get richer deal. Get your program in here and the 20k helps cover the cost. Get exposure and if you can perform and maybe knock off a bigger/richer school think what that could do for sport excitement, alumni support, recruiting all at the beginning of the season. It could be a launch point for some programs and for some kids.
Can you imagine where football and basketball would be if their notion of growing the sport was only focusing on those who played at the youth level? I'm sorry but this is just utter insanity. If college wrestling's notion of growing the sport is only focused on those who compete and are involved on the youth level the sport won't be here in 30 years on the college level.
I completely understand you taking Cael's side on this, because you are a huge Penn State fan. And being a huge Penn State wrestling fan, Cael is God to most Penn State Wrestling fans. But for Cael to come out the other day and pretty much put down the idea of this was ridiculous. For Penn State to not participate in this, and Penn State being the best over the last 15 years, is ridiculous. An event like this with all of the best teams participating draws fans. Penn State would draw fans. Fans create money. Without fans and income from the fans, the sport dies. What I am saying is that this event creates interest and gets people pumped up about the sport, that is why it benefits the sport! And yes, definitely make this a charity event instead of throwing the money at the colleges. Put the money towards growing the sport more than just what this event will help it grow!
To this point, the more money made on the event, the possibility of bigger prize money in the future.
Say the event brings in 20 million and the location moves to a bid situation for other venues and advertising dollars blow up, you could see the prize for attendees rise to 50-100k. If that were to happen, almost every Athletic Dept. would think harder about funding cuts to Wrestling. It's not like you see Men's Tennis generate that kind of money for themselves (among others, not picking on Tennis.)
but that's how sports are grown. At the foundational level. I'm dumbfounded that many on here and elsewhere don't understand how you build something. Hint: the roof goes on last.
As a matter of fact, football and basketball grew from the pee wee, high school, and pick up games in the neighborhood. The professional leagues became popular because many of the fans had participated in, or attended high school games.
I feel like many of you are married to the concept because you're OSU fans. The truth is that national duals do squat to promote the sport outside the diehard fans.
It would only draw those fans already invested in the sport. Surely you guys see this. This has zero to do with who I root for. It's just common sense. The mistake here is marketing it as a national duals. It should have been promoted as a charity event. The biggest detriment to the sport is the lack of quality in HS coaching. I live in South Carolina. The coaching overall is abysmal and that's being kind. You can't grow the sport unless we start teaching coaches the fundamentals of coaching. Seriously. I've seen coaches on their phones with their back to the mat as their wrestler is looking for instruction during a match!!! You don't create future fans and donors that way. Then donation of mats and shoes. Many HS gyms have old or used mats.
Truth is, only Wrestling fans watch in any form and nature. So what exactly is your point?
It is a fact it’s easier for a casual fan to follow a dual than a tourney. That’s not debatable.
Anything that highlights the sport is good. Things that highlight the sport that can remove weight from an AD is even better.
You and Cael are the only people not excited about this.
I will say, it should be held at rotating neutral sights and not have a home in Tulsa.
Improving youth and high school wrestling would definitely help the sport, but I do not see it as the only way to grow the fan base. UFC, auto racing, and boxing are all able to thrive without any real presence at the high school level.
Wrestling should thrive at the high school level, but Football coaches, specialized minded parents/mentors are a major culprit on the sport at the high school level.
This event will give the fans of 16 schools something to get excited about. Why does it have to cater to “new fans” or grow anything. More wrestling is good, end of story. We don’t have to solve every problem out there to make something worth anything.
dual championship has been talked about for years by fans, coaches, athletes of many programs at many levels. It’s been talked about by the international community too. It’s a desired event, the question has always been about the details.
Can’t see how any wrestling fan would not want to see more high level competition and more excitement. Regardless of what team you pull for.
Can’t see how any wrestling fan would not want to see more high level competition and more excitement. Regardless of what team you pull for.
Chase, nearly always agree with you; however, disagree on the rotation of sites. I think what Omaha has done with college baseball and OKC with softball makes it a destination event and creates a great event that can be supported by the community in a major way
I don’t disagree on that premise, those are great examples.
I just like the bid process of holding the event that may generate more money and awareness for the sport.
I like it in Tulsa for selfish reasons.
What kind of setup are we thinking for this. To make it worth it, it can’t be single elimination right? But if we do consolation bracket that could mean someone wrestles 6 duals (go 1-5) which seems excessive (would also be Cinderella story so unlikely).
Single elimination for 1st round losers. Then place to top 8 . That makes the most sense I think
It will be the best event for the casual fan the college wrestling can put on. No question about it.
I’m glad we are leading the way with it and it could play a big role in saving college wrestling.
I’m glad we are leading the way with it and it could play a big role in saving college wrestling.
FYI the Ncaa wrestling tournament weekend makes the NCAA a profit and not many NCAA championship events do
But that is not how sports are grown. Yes ... more participating at a young age is great for the sport. But your sport can't just involve people who played it. You think every person who watches the NFL played youth football? Of course not. My wife probably watches more football than I do but I don't think she has ever strapped on the pads. I went to a Thunder game last night with a big crowd. I know a ton of people in that arena have never played a competitive basketball game in their life.
Acting like wrestling is only for those who wrestled is caveman thinking and will lead to the death of the sport at the colligate level.
NCAAs are such and amazing event. If you love college wrestling it doesn't get any better. If you are trying to get into the sport or learn it the NCAA Championships are impossible to follow.
It does but it doesn’t change the landscape every school who sponsors college wrelsting is facing.
The impending revenue sharing that is likely to start this summer is going to cause schools even in P4 conferences to cut Olympic and non-revenue sports and in most cases it will start on the men’s side.
If I am a proponent of a sport that fits the above I am for and doing everything I can to elevate that sport. Grow the TV ratings, ticket revenue and student, alumni and casual fan interest and demand.
While I believe the event itself makes money, TV ratings have struggled and there are concerns about it because of that.
I agree with some but not all. I never wrestled in elementary or HS. I also played zero sports. I didn't follow wrestling until my 40's. I stumbled onto this site and learned names and started following. Building the foundation with youth is important...but you can build a following outside of actually competing as a youngster. Olympic sports need all of the attention they can get.
I agree. Top teams will be invited, regardless of conference. To not participate, in my opinion, would be a mistake.
I think the problem people are having with Cael is that, with his position as possibly the greatest coach and wrestler of all time, he has an inherent duty to try to lookout for the future and welfare of the sport. He comes across as indifferent and aloof to the needs of wrestling at large. Instead, he keeps a laser focus on his needs and his desire to win at almost any cost. Unfortunately, the qualities that make him such a great wrestler and coach, don’t translate to a great ambassador and leader, outside of coaching PSU. Selfishness is trait of the greatest of our sport, but not the greatest leaders.
Who said Iowa will say no, to me Tom sounds excited about this.
And how does a dual tournament change the revenue sharing for those schools who won't be invited? Having another event is great and I can't wait. But I'm not one that thinks this is what's gonna save college wrestling
I don't think this is going to save wrestling on its own but we need more events like this. We need people trying different things to increase eyeballs. I don't think David Taylor and Paycom just saved college wrestling but could this be step one towards more people thinking outside the box and creating stuff that helps more programs be around in 10 years? I hope so.
Have to start somewhere. Starts with one donor - but if there is a multi-year commitment - it will grow enough to where between sponsors and broadcasting rights it becomes a thing.
Like VHS said you have to start somewhere and it starts with one rich guy getting the ball off the ground. If people show up and watch then it becomes easier to get more sponsors and media revenue. Will that happen? I have no idea. All I know is all Olympic sports are on the chopping block. I don't think the status quo is sustainable.
It is going to take more events that have significant attendance metrics that isolate people to a "shopping" district. Once the threat of losing business happens, the voices get pretty loud.
I know at Nationals, my household is good for the STR, dining and concession business. In specific, hotels and air BNB owners will turn into huge supporters as well as restaurant owners. That is one of the places that marketing efforts need to be targeted.
For a person that owns 5 STRs in Tulsa, a 3 night stay event grosses them at least 5k. So it isn't out of the realm that a nicely worded phone call to that person stating that Wrestling needs your support, they will think long and hard about not giving something. Same for restaurants. In this scenario, it needs to be some sort of Co-op arrangement for the participants at those events. This is also why I like the bid process for location.
Wrestling needs to spend significant effort on all of the profit metrics available and get creative.
