Meanwhile …

[Ponca Dan]

Lets talk about the MIC in action in Ukraine.

Sue for Peace, You Friggin Idiots! - LewRockwell

So, by this time, nearly everyone knows that the U.S. MIC (Military-Idustrial-Congressional complex) branch of the “Deep State” needs a constant supply of blood. Ukraine is the current nubile victim. Already seriously drained and near death, she’s seeking more transfusions from NATO and “the...

www.lewrockwell.com

 

[2012Bearcat]

Whose would be the better realistic Presidential candidate for those whose most important issue is anti-war? Biden or Trump. While those voters may have to hold their nose, the answer would seem to be obvious. I can't see how they could possibly vote for the guy who set the stage for two wars breaking out.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

Whose would be the better realistic Presidential candidate for those whose most important issue is anti-war? Biden or Trump. While those voters may have to hold their nose, the answer would seem to be obvious. I can't see how they could possibly vote for the guy who set the stage for two wars breaking out.

There is still time for another war. Don't get comfortable.

 

[OrangeTuono]

We know only too well that war comes not when the forces of freedom are strong, but when they are weak. It is then that tyrants are tempted.
Ronald Reagan, Republican National Convention, July 17 1980

 

[2012Bearcat]

There is still time for another war. Don't get comfortable.

The obvious additional conflict is Taiwan but the one flying under the radar is North Korea.

 

[Ponca Dan]

How has America’s “strong force of freedom” kept us out of the wars it is supposed to keep us from worked out since Reagan uttered those words in 1980?

 

[OrangeTuono]

How has America’s “strong force of freedom” kept us out of the wars it is supposed to keep us from worked out since Reagan uttered those words in 1980?

Do you think Iran/Hamas would have attacked Israel with Trump in office?
Do you think Russia would have invaded Ukraine with Trump in office?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Do you think Iran/Hamas would have attacked Israel with Trump in office?
Do you think Russia would have invaded Ukraine with Trump in office?

Yes and Yes. But that skirts the issue. Strong forces of freedom, per RR, prevent the strong from attacking the weak. What has prevented America's strong force for freedom from attacking weak forces across the globe since 1980? We’ve been involved in military conflict in one form or another for as long as I can remember. So how has our strong force prevented war in the way RR thought it would? I would argue that it hasn’t.

 

[2012Bearcat]

How has America’s “strong force of freedom” kept us out of the wars it is supposed to keep us from worked out since Reagan uttered those words in 1980?

Could this be the result of weak. corrupt, failed leadership instead of the support of "strong force of freedom".

 

[ClintonDavidScott]

Do you think Iran/Hamas would have attacked Israel with Trump in office?
Do you think Russia would have invaded Ukraine with Trump in office?

Iran attacked Bagram AFB after we killed Solemeini…something Netanyahu and our own military and intelligence admin didn’t want to go down (to his credit, a rare moment of reason from Bibi)…

Trump falsely characterized Israel's role in his administration's hit on Iran's Soleimani, say former U.S. officials

"They were never on board with it,” said a former senior White House official, referring to the Israelis. “They always thought it was a dangerous and destabilizing idea.”

www.nbcnews.com

Trump said Wednesday that Israel planned to be part of the January 2020 operation that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani but abruptly backed out the night before it was to take place. In his remarks, delivered before an audience at his Mar-a-Lago club in South Florida, Trump sharply criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for that decision after months of working with the U.S. on the operation.

But the U.S. officials familiar with the planning said Trump’s comments are entirely false. “They were never on board with it," said a former senior White House official, referring to the Israelis. "They always thought it was a dangerous and destabilizing idea.”

One former Trump administration official familiar with the planning said that in Washington, when Trump made the decision to go ahead with the Soleimani strike, the generals who were present seemed to collectively take a deep breath.








carry on

 

[Ponca Dan]

Could this be the result of weak. corrupt, failed leadership instead of the support of "strong force of freedom".

I would argue that is exactly the result of weak, corrupt and failed leadership from every administration since at least 1980. Weak and corrupt leadership has wilted in the face of the MIC/NeoCon pressure.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Is fish oil good for you or bad for you? Am I better off spending the extra money for krill oil?

 

[2012Bearcat]

I would argue that is exactly the result of weak, corrupt and failed leadership from every administration since at least 1980. Weak and corrupt leadership has wilted in the face of the MIC/NeoCon pressure.

For once I think we might agree. It's not a failure of being a "strong force for freedom", it's the failure of inept, corrupt, weak leadership elected by the electorate that has been purposely divided for the benefit of corrupt self serving politicians on both sides.

 

[aix_xpert]

Iran attacked Bagram AFB after we killed Solemeini…something Netanyahu and our own military and intelligence admin didn’t want to go down (to his credit, a rare moment of reason from Bibi)…

Trump falsely characterized Israel's role in his administration's hit on Iran's Soleimani, say former U.S. officials

"They were never on board with it,” said a former senior White House official, referring to the Israelis. “They always thought it was a dangerous and destabilizing idea.”

www.nbcnews.com

Trump said Wednesday that Israel planned to be part of the January 2020 operation that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani but abruptly backed out the night before it was to take place. In his remarks, delivered before an audience at his Mar-a-Lago club in South Florida, Trump sharply criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for that decision after months of working with the U.S. on the operation.

But the U.S. officials familiar with the planning said Trump’s comments are entirely false. “They were never on board with it," said a former senior White House official, referring to the Israelis. "They always thought it was a dangerous and destabilizing idea.”

One former Trump administration official familiar with the planning said that in Washington, when Trump made the decision to go ahead with the Soleimani strike, the generals who were present seemed to collectively take a deep breath.








carry on

Quoting anonymous sources again?

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

Do you think Iran/Hamas would have attacked Israel with Trump in office?
Do you think Russia would have invaded Ukraine with Trump in office?

Unlikely.
Biden restored funding to Putin for his war effort by returning Trump's stolen natural gas customers to Russia.

 

[OrangeTuono]

Unlikely.
Biden restored funding to Putin for his war effort by returning Trump's stolen natural gas customers to Russia.

Agree. Ponca is blinded by all of his "anti" biases.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Unlikely.
Biden restored funding to Putin for his war effort by returning Trump's stolen natural gas customers to Russia.

I do not understand the blind faith that Trump would (or could) stop any military adventurism by anybody else, not to mention our own. He has no record of doing anything like that.

 

[OrangeTuono]

I do not understand the blind faith that Trump would (or could) stop any military adventurism by anybody else, not to mention our own. He has no record of doing anything like that.

Recommend you start studying Scenario Planning and Game Theory. There is much to this world that a simplistic political ideological perspective cannot describe. Much is discussed here that you only view through your personal ideological lens, so miss out on real information.

Or willfully remain ignorant...

 

[Ponca Dan]

Recommend you start studying Scenario Planning and Game Theory. There is much to this world that a simplistic political ideological perspective cannot describe. Much is discussed here that you only view through your personal ideological lens, so miss out on real information.

Or willfully remain ignorant...

I respectfully ask that you provide real information on the military conflicts Donald Trump prevented somewhere in the world because the belligerents were terrified of Donald Trump.

I think it is sheer idiocy for anyone to think Hamas would not have attacked on Oct 7 because they would be afraid of what the American president would do, especially since Joe Biden has a 50 year history of supporting Israel with a fervor even former Israeli PM’s didn’t have.

And it is also sheer idiocy to think Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if it was Donald Trump that pushed for NATO expansion on its border.

But who knows, maybe I’m just being willfully ignorant.

 

[OrangeTuono]

I respectfully ask that you provide real information on the military conflicts Donald Trump prevented somewhere in the world because the belligerents were terrified of Donald Trump.

I think it is sheer idiocy for anyone to think Hamas would not have attacked on Oct 7 because they would be afraid of what the American president would do, especially since Joe Biden has a 50 year history of supporting Israel with a fervor even former Israeli PM’s didn’t have.

And it is also sheer idiocy to think Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if it was Donald Trump that pushed for NATO expansion on its border.

But who knows, maybe I’m just being willfully ignorant.

Many posters have pointed out the well considered differences between Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations yet here you are, still making disingenuous accusations that everyone not agreeing with you is putting "blind faith" in Trump.

You've conflated across time, across factions, across administrations, across anything you can to spew up support for your ideological preferences EVERY chance you can find.

So yes, you are being willfully ignorant. I pity the mental hell you have trapped yourself in.

Have a Blessed Memorial Day weekend! GO POKES!

P.S.
Reality of Trump Administration:
- Russia
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-...ns-syria-trump-administration-confirms-2018-4
- Iran
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/middleeast/baghdad-airport-rockets/index.html
https://www.state.gov/the-abraham-accords/

 

[Ponca Dan]

Many posters have pointed out the well considered differences between Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations yet here you are, still making disingenuous accusations that everyone not agreeing with you is putting "blind faith" in Trump.

You've conflated across time, across factions, across administrations, across anything you can to spew up support for your ideological preferences EVERY chance you can find.

So yes, you are being willfully ignorant. I pity the mental hell you have trapped yourself in.

Have a Blessed Memorial Day weekend! GO POKES!

P.S.
Reality of Trump Administration:
- Russia
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-...ns-syria-trump-administration-confirms-2018-4
- Iran
https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/middleeast/baghdad-airport-rockets/index.html
https://www.state.gov/the-abraham-accords/

When it comes to the MIC/NeoCons who control our “foreign policy,” (read that “our military adventurism”), it is clear those folks don’t give a fig who the president is. Anyone who can’t see that is being willfully ignorant. Anyone who thinks DJT had the slightest impact on what the NeoCons had prepared is someone blinded by faith in a man who did nothing to deserve it. I’m confused what you think your links prove. What they prove is the man who promised he’d “end our stupid wars and it will be easy” had no clue what he was doing and got played by the Deep State every bit as badly as every president before and after him. It is lunacy, for instance, to think he would have prevented the proxy war in Ukraine. He’s the dolt who succumbed to NeoCon pressure and armed Ukraine in preparation for the war. It may be that he’s so stupid he didn’t even know that was what he was doing. And yet the loyalty from people like you endures.

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

Dan, was it 56 missiles Trump launched at Putin's favorite client?

What "treasure" did Hillary steer to Moscow when she was Secretary of State?

With most board members, policies relay impressions to board members. There is much for you to learn from OrangeTuono.

 

[OrangeTuono]

Dan, was it 56 missiles Trump launched at Putin's favorite client?

What "treasure" did Hillary steer to Moscow when she was Secretary of State?

With most board members, policies relay impressions to board members. There is much for you to learn from OrangeTuono.

Ponca is caught in the Progressive Ideological Self Validation he'll. Reality matters not, kinetic actions matter not, policy implement matters not, when you're eaten alive with TDS.

On second thought, I don't think he's willfully ignorant, just intellectually blinded.

 

[aix_xpert]

I do not understand the blind faith that Trump would (or could) stop any military adventurism by anybody else, not to mention our own. He has no record of doing anything like that.

How many new adventures occurred during Trump's last term?

Oh yea, zero.

 

[Ponca Dan]

How many new adventures occurred during Trump's last term?

Oh yea, zero.

OMG. The number of dead civilians at the hands of DJT's administrtion set new records, only to be surpassed by the Idiot-In-Chief of today.

 

[OrangeTuono]

OMG. The number of dead civilians at the hands of DJT's administrtion set new records, only to be surpassed by the Idiot-In-Chief of today.

What dead citizens are you talking about? Can you be specific on this or is another of your "Ponca vs Reality" TDS fits?
Maybe the 200 obliterated Russian "civilian contractors"?
Or the COVID related deaths?

 

[OrangeTuono]

Dan, was it 56 missiles Trump launched at Putin's favorite client?

What "treasure" did Hillary steer to Moscow when she was Secretary of State?

With most board members, policies relay impressions to board members. There is much for you to learn from OrangeTuono.

Are you referring to monopoly control of the worlds Uranium?
Or the $1M she paid to Russian national Danchenko for the dossier?

 

[Ponca Dan]

What dead citizens are you talking about? Can you be specific on this or is another of your "Ponca vs Reality" TDS fits?
Maybe the 200 obliterated Russian "civilian contractors"?
Or the COVID related deaths?

Start with this. If it doesn’t satisfy your curiosity I’ll find some more for you.

Trump Inherited the Drone War but Ditched Accountability

Only a single formal check remains on U.S. killings worldwide.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[OrangeTuono]

Start with this. If it doesn’t satisfy your curiosity I’ll find some more for you.

Trump Inherited the Drone War but Ditched Accountability

Only a single formal check remains on U.S. killings worldwide.

foreignpolicy.com

Hit a paywall, but here is what I could read. Hardly the damning proof of authoritarian overreach you claim.

DO BETTER Ponca.

On March 10, a U.S. drone fired a missile, turning a passenger vehicle outside Janaale, Somalia, into a heap of burnt and broken metal with fresh corpses inside. Whether the people killed that day were “terrorists” or ordinary Somalis is actively disputed. It is also a reminder that the United States’ targeted killing program persists to this day, another legacy of the forever war that has now lasted for three presidential administrations and shows no signs of stopping in the next one. Under U.S. President Donald Trump, however, an already opaque and murderous set of rules has become even more widely applied, and ever less accountable.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Hit a paywall, but here is what I could read. Hardly the damning proof of authoritarian overreach you claim.

DO BETTER Ponca.

On March 10, a U.S. drone fired a missile, turning a passenger vehicle outside Janaale, Somalia, into a heap of burnt and broken metal with fresh corpses inside. Whether the people killed that day were “terrorists” or ordinary Somalis is actively disputed. It is also a reminder that the United States’ targeted killing program persists to this day, another legacy of the forever war that has now lasted for three presidential administrations and shows no signs of stopping in the next one. Under U.S. President Donald Trump, however, an already opaque and murderous set of rules has become even more widely applied, and ever less accountable.

Well that’s awfully convenient for you. No paywall for me. Try this one.

Under Donald Trump, drone strikes far exceed Obama's numbers

Trump has escalated the number of U.S. drone strikes overseas, and made the program even more secretive.

chicago.suntimes.com

Or here:

Trump the anti-war president was always a myth

Let the record show: Trump poured fuel on our endless wars and kicked diplomacy to the curb.

responsiblestatecraft.org

I don’t know, is this paywalled?

From Obama to Trump, the Escalation of Drone Warfare - Antiwar.com

"Be assured of one thing: whichever candidate you choose at the polls in November, you aren’t just electing a president of the United States; you are - Allegra Harpootlian for Antiwar.com

original.antiwar.com

About the man that didn’t start any wars (but upped the game in the ones he inherited):

Trump Has Pushed Ahead With Drone Strikes, Putting US Citizens in the Crosshairs

Continuing the targeted killing program created by Bush and expanded by Obama, Trump loosened restrictions further.

truthout.org

 

[Sunburnt Indian]

Are you referring to monopoly control of the worlds Uranium?
Or the $1M she paid to Russian national Danchenko for the dossier?

Uranium. I'd almost forgotten Hillary funding of the dossier.

 

[soonerinlOUisiana]

Damn. The USA really missed out. Just think how much better off we’d be if we’d had Dan at Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Normandy, etc. enforcing “ accountability”.
😂😂😂😂

 

[Ponca Dan]

Damn. The USA really missed out. Just think how much better off we’d be if we’d had Dan at Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Normandy, etc. enforcing “ accountability”.
😂😂😂😂

Billy Badass at his finest.

 

[OrangeTuono]

Uranium. I'd almost forgotten Hillary funding of the dossier.

And funding a Russian national for the dossier, in violation of several federal laws....