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Living in Leftlandia

I brought up the Netherlands as a demonstration that the costs you are so fond of talking about aren't set in stone and are actually set by a market where providers can pass along the 13% of costs unpaid by medicare to private insurers and their unwitting customers.

I concede whatever point you are trying to make about the difference between Berniecare and the Netherlands.

A key similarity between the Netherlands and the status quo ante in the US is that provision of healthcare is highly regulated. So the question remains, if costs are inflexible how is it possible for the Netherlands to provide healthcare so much cheaper than the US. Please don't dodge again.
Who does Medicare and Medicaid cover?
 
33 trillion over 10 years instead of 35 is exactly the same as working for free.

In manufacturing we have to make a profit on every order because we don't have a bag holder that we can pass losses along to.
So your largest customers haven't been paying below your actual costs to produce your products for years? You would have found a bag holder if that was the case or you wouldn't be in business.
 
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So your largest customers haven't been paying below your actual costs to produce your products for years? You would have found a bag holder if that was the case or you wouldn't be in business.
My industry doesn't have a bag holder which is why prices haven't increased significantly faster than the CPI.
 
My industry doesn't have a bag holder which is why prices haven't increased significantly faster than the CPI.
Your industry also doesn't have your largest payers paying less than cost for your products. I know you'd like to ignore this fact, but it isn't going away.
 
Your industry also doesn't have your largest payers paying less than cost for your products. I know you'd like to ignore this fact, but it isn't going away.
Because we contain our costs because we don't have bagholders. Your supposed costs are artificially inflated by the existence of bagholders.
 
Because we contain our costs because we don't have bagholders. Your supposed costs are artificially inflated by the existence of bagholders.
The charges have been artificially inflated because of bag holders, not the costs. You do know the difference between costs and charges, correct?
 
Just tell me and quit dodging.
I'm not sure you have any knowledge of healthcare in the US outside of Bernie and AOC talking points. The current direction of this thread isn't helping. It's a simple question, who does Medicare and Medicaid cover?
 
The charges have been artificially inflated because of bag holders, not the costs. You do know the difference between costs and charges, correct?
The cost and charges have been artificially inflated. Why control costs when you can just pass them along? If you pass along 13% of the cost to care for Medicare patients whats a 6% increase in salaries or a 7% increase from you syringe supplier?
 
I'm not sure you have any knowledge of healthcare in the US outside of Bernie and AOC talking points. The current direction of this thread isn't helping. It's a simple question, who does Medicare and Medicaid cover?
Just tell me make your point and quit dodging.
 
Because we contain our costs because we don't have bagholders. Your supposed costs are artificially inflated by the existence of bagholders.
You control costs to maximize profit. Are you really going to be this intellectually dishonest?
 
The cost and charges have been artificially inflated. Why control costs when you can just pass them along? If you pass along 13% of the cost to care for Medicare patients whats a 6% increase in salaries or a 7% increase from you syringe supplier?
It's clear you have no idea how any of this works. The price of the syringe is included in the cost Do you know how much a 10cc syringe costs a hospital?
 
You control costs to maximize profit. Are you really going to be this intellectually dishonest?
Yeah imagine how much easier it would be to maximize profit if I could, instead of controlling costs, just charge my bagholders more.
 
Yeah imagine how much easier it would be to maximize profit if I could, instead of controlling costs, just charge my bagholders more.
Well, if your largest customers were paying less than your costs, you'd be doing something or you'd go out of business. You're an absolute idiot if you think providers don't try to control costs. Controlling costs is the only way to make any money. That's why entities like the VHA and OHA exist.
 
Yeah imagine how much easier it would be to maximize profit if I could, instead of controlling costs, just charge my bagholders more.
Do you think that private insurance companies actually pay what providers bill them?
 
Well, if your largest customers were paying less than your costs, you'd be doing something or you'd go out of business. You're an absolute idiot if you think providers don't try to control costs. Controlling costs is the only way to make any money. That's why entities like the VHA and OHA exist.
I'm sure they try to control costs, but why are they so unsuccessful.
 
I'm sure they try to control costs, but why are they so unsuccessful.
They aren't unsuccessful. If that was the case, there'd be no hospitals open. Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance reimbursement hasn't been becoming more generous.
 
god this is tedious
If you had previously demonstrated any actual knowledge of healthcare in the US it probably wouldn't be. I feel like I'm trying to discuss rocket science with a toddler.
 
You do realize that "report" represents "fees" and not the actual provider cost to provide care right? There's a reason that US "fees" are higher than other countries, which is exactly what I'm trying to point out to you.
Fees or prices should be higher than cost (except Medicare). Why are US average and Medicare "fees" both higher than other countries?
 
They aren't unsuccessful. If that was the case, there'd be no hospitals open. Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance reimbursement hasn't been becoming more generous.
Looks unsuccessful to me
fredgraph.png
 
If you had previously demonstrated any actual knowledge of healthcare in the US it probably wouldn't be. I feel like I'm trying to discuss rocket science with a toddler.
Still dodging.
 
Fees or prices should be higher than cost (except Medicare). Why are US average and Medicare "fees" both higher than other countries?
Providers inflated charges to increase reimbursement from private insurers to recoup underpayments from Medicare and Medicaid and the costs of providing charity care.

Medicare and Medicaid comprise about 60% of an average payer mix in the US.
 
Cost to the consumer = cost to the provider + profit of the provider
In most industries that's true. Most people don't pay directly for their healthcare though. A third party payer exists in about 95% of healthcare transactions.
 
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