ADVERTISEMENT

Kevin Williamson Weighs In

Ponca Dan

MegaPoke is insane
Gold Member
Dec 7, 2003
22,332
21,541
113
On DJT’s utterly insane notion of paying government expenses through tariffs. Trigger warning for all you MAGA’s: his rhetoric might give you the vapors.


 
  • Haha
Reactions: OUSOONER67
For me, the tax savings easily exceeds the increased costs of goods and consumables. I’m all for this, but it is certainly too good to be true. The swamp would never give up the power that the income tax system affords it.
Your lack of insight makes me question if you're really a lawyer. Did you get your degree online?
 
Well, my “lack of insight” is shared almost universally by attendees at ALI-ABA tax conferences, so I’m not sure what your point, if any, is.
The point is tariffs will raise prices on everyone, while ending income taxes will benefit only those who make enough living to pay taxes. The poorest of the poor, and the lowest wage earners, not to mention much of the middle class, will get the shock of higher prices - significantly higher prices - while only the comfortable will enjoy the tax breaks. But, hell, those are typically black and brown skinned people, aren't they? So of course you love the idea, as utterly stupid as it is. Plus, as discussed before the idea of the tariffs is to lower imports in order to "save" American manufacturing. But when imports are lowered so is the income from the import tariffs. Where's Orange-man-genius going to make up the shortfall? He's curiously mum on that little tidbit because he's too stupid to know it.
 
The point is tariffs will raise prices on everyone, while ending income taxes will benefit only those who make enough living to pay taxes. The poorest of the poor, and the lowest wage earners, not to mention much of the middle class, will get the shock of higher prices - significantly higher prices - while only the comfortable will enjoy the tax breaks. But, hell, those are typically black and brown skinned people, aren't they? So of course you love the idea, as utterly stupid as it is. Plus, as discussed before the idea of the tariffs is to lower imports in order to "save" American manufacturing. But when imports are lowered so is the income from the import tariffs. Where's Orange-man-genius going to make up the shortfall? He's curiously mum on that little tidbit because he's too stupid to know it.

 
Ponca - You're playing a zero-sum game.

Let's use an example of $100,000 (top 50%) since it's easy. Today at $100,000 you're paying roughly $40,000 to the Federal government.
So what happens if you next year find yourself with an extra $40,000 to spend?
  • You likely crush your mortgage and car loans
  • You might save or invest more of your salary
  • Likely buy a new home or remodel your existing home, but a vacation home
  • You might start a new business (on-shoring will happen)
  • You might buy a new car, boat, jetski, RV,...
  • You hire a lawn guy, housekeeper, tutor for the kids, pest control guy

Services are impossible to off-shore so that employees more Americans.
Housing is a very American economic expansion impact - wages, lumber, ... Tile, toilets, light fixtures, solar panels will become much more competitive for US manufacturers.

And any shortfall results is massive Federal and State budget and payroll cuts. It's not hard, except for the activist bureaucrats that are suckling from the dry teet of the American Taxpayer.
 
The point is tariffs will raise prices on everyone, while ending income taxes will benefit only those who make enough living to pay taxes. The poorest of the poor, and the lowest wage earners, not to mention much of the middle class, will get the shock of higher prices - significantly higher prices - while only the comfortable will enjoy the tax breaks. But, hell, those are typically black and brown skinned people, aren't they? So of course you love the idea, as utterly stupid as it is. Plus, as discussed before the idea of the tariffs is to lower imports in order to "save" American manufacturing. But when imports are lowered so is the income from the import tariffs. Where's Orange-man-genius going to make up the shortfall? He's curiously mum on that little tidbit because he's too stupid to know it.
Would you not enjoy the tax breaks? Are you one of these non taxpayers who isn’t paying his fair share?
 
Ponca - You're playing a zero-sum game.

Let's use an example of $100,000 (top 50%) since it's easy. Today at $100,000 you're paying roughly $40,000 to the Federal government.
So what happens if you next year find yourself with an extra $40,000 to spend?
  • You likely crush your mortgage and car loans
  • You might save or invest more of your salary
  • Likely buy a new home or remodel your existing home, but a vacation home
  • You might start a new business (on-shoring will happen)
  • You might buy a new car, boat, jetski, RV,...
  • You hire a lawn guy, housekeeper, tutor for the kids, pest control guy

Services are impossible to off-shore so that employees more Americans.
Housing is a very American economic expansion impact - wages, lumber, ... Tile, toilets, light fixtures, solar panels will become much more competitive for US manufacturers.

And any shortfall results is massive Federal and State budget and payroll cuts. It's not hard, except for the activist bureaucrats that are suckling from the dry teet of the American Taxpayer.
You make a very good point for those I earlier described as “comfortable.” But no amount of tax savings for the comfortable that is redirected into investment to create jobs is going to benefit those that are not comfortable, not to a degree that would be helpful. Trump’s plan is as ridiculously unworkable as the left’s joy-toy MMT. As for making American manufacturers more competitive, that’s what competition is for. And tariffs destroy competition. Government Industrial Policy, which would be the end game of Trump’s tariff policy is a MAGA version of big government interference in the workings of a free market, starting out as a soft fascism which has only one way to go, and it ain’t the good way.
 
Would you not enjoy the tax breaks? Are you one of these non taxpayers who isn’t paying his fair share?
For goodness sake I’m an anarcho-capitalist. I despise every tax of every kind. And that includes tariffs. Nothing would make me happier than having the income tax abolished. Trump’s plan just shifts the tyranny around and doesn’t change a thing that matters. The inflation it would cause may very well make your personal situation worse, not better. And then he will tell you what he told the Midwest farmers and small manufacturers his tariffs destroyed when he was president: he’ll thank you for your patriotic sacrifice.
 
P
Oh I get it. Kind of like a “sovereign citizen”, or common idiot.
Nope, you don’t get it at all. It’s an entire wing of philosophical libertarian thought that spans centuries. But it is easy to see why someone with your limited political worldview would know nothing about it.
 
Free trade needs to be a two way street. Reagan was a free trader but put tariffs on Japan, an ally, for refusing to play nice. China is our enemy. Anything that slows them down is a good thing. De-risking or decoupling is what I think its called. Let tariffs on China be part of that strategy.
 
For goodness sake I’m an anarcho-capitalist. I despise every tax of every kind. And that includes tariffs. Nothing would make me happier than having the income tax abolished. Trump’s plan just shifts the tyranny around and doesn’t change a thing that matters. The inflation it would cause may very well make your personal situation worse, not better. And then he will tell you what he told the Midwest farmers and small manufacturers his tariffs destroyed when he was president: he’ll thank you for your patriotic sacrifice.
There will always be tyranny especially if your an anarchist. At this point shifting the tyranny would be a good thing. Keep shifting it is the only way to check it. Tyranny held too long will cripple any society. Income tax tyranny needs a change as it has become what it naturally will become, another means of control. When you switch off this tyranny it will be replaced with another tyranny. Eventually the new tyranny will need replacing as well.

I would like to remind you that there is no such thing as free trade. How is trade free and fair when China allows slave labor? Unless we counter with our own slavery it won't be. No, I have no desire to bring back slavery. Right now, if you buy made in China you are supporting a slave economy. Forcing an even playing field can only be achieved through tariffs. If everyone played by the same rules then tariffs would be obsolete but that will not happen any time soon. We must use the tools given to us and tariffs are part of that tool box.

Our economy is so screwed up by stupid smart people there is no way to fix it without pain for some, most likely most. A reset will have to occur one way or the other. I prefer a reset that we choose instead of China. I prefer a reset without socialism. To do so will require painful changes.
 
No, free trade
Free trade needs to be a two way street. Reagan was a free trader but put tariffs on Japan, an ally, for refusing to play nice. China is our enemy. Anything that slows them down is a good thing. De-risking or decoupling is what I think its called. Let tariffs on China be part of that strategy.
No, free trade does not need to be a two way street, at least not in the manner you describe. Free trade just needs to be a mutual exchange between willing parties, usually where both parties get something they desire more than what they have. When a government steps in to regulate the exchange it instantly is no longer free trade. Government is insatiable in its quest to swallow power at the expense of liberty. And it is very clever at tricking people into swapping their liberty for the government’s “protection.”
 
There will always be tyranny especially if your an anarchist. At this point shifting the tyranny would be a good thing. Keep shifting it is the only way to check it. Tyranny held too long will cripple any society. Income tax tyranny needs a change as it has become what it naturally will become, another means of control. When you switch off this tyranny it will be replaced with another tyranny. Eventually the new tyranny will need replacing as well.

I would like to remind you that there is no such thing as free trade. How is trade free and fair when China allows slave labor? Unless we counter with our own slavery it won't be. No, I have no desire to bring back slavery. Right now, if you buy made in China you are supporting a slave economy. Forcing an even playing field can only be achieved through tariffs. If everyone played by the same rules then tariffs would be obsolete but that will not happen any time soon. We must use the tools given to us and tariffs are part of that tool box.

Our economy is so screwed up by stupid smart people there is no way to fix it without pain for some, most likely most. A reset will have to occur one way or the other. I prefer a reset that we choose instead of China. I prefer a reset without socialism. To do so will require painful changes.
Spoken like a true socialist! Give me power, It’ll be painful but trust me I know whst’s best for you even when it brings you pain but not me.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Alpha Woke
Spoken like a true socialist! Give me power, It’ll be painful but trust me I know whst’s best for you even when it brings you pain but not me.
Are you kidding. I'm in the pain range. It will hurt me the most.

Not a socialist trait fyi. They think only the rich should pay the price. You are slipping Dan.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT