I keep reading that Katie Hobbs refuses to debate Kari Lake and that is hurting her campaign. And yet the polls show the race is neck and neck. So is it possibly a good tactic on her part to steer clear? If she debates and does badly (which most people seem to think would happen) she would almost certainly lose. So how is refusing to debate hurting her campsign?
Katie Hobbs vs Kari Lake
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
If the electorate won't hold the incumbent accountable, then its a good strategy. But given the polarization of the electorate today, do debates really matter? There just aren't many independents to be swayed and most voters are already committed to their R or D candidate.
Don’t know anything about Katie Hobbs, but have a feeling Kari Lake would eat her alive. I have been very impressed the few times I have heard Kari Lake talk.
Kari Lake would beat her like a rented army mule.....Hobbs is a mental midget but the strategy worked for cho xiden so why not try it out. So far every interview I've seen Lake in she is polished, knowledgeable om the subject & is absolutely loathed by the media & libcomdems.
Agree with aix_xpert probably not many peeps would be changed by a debate. But KL is a spitfire for sure & I'm certain you'll see her in the national mix one day. Maybe as Trumps VP candidate in 2024 if he runs & gets the nod.
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Or DeSantis’ VP. A DeSantis (Florida)/Lake (Arizona) ticket would be quite formidable. Speaking of debates can you imagine DeSantis vs Biden? Or Lake vs Harris? That might be the biggest combined beatdown in history.
Baby killers will vote for Hobbs, non-baby killers will vote for lake.
How can anyone even a person that has voted Democrat vote for any Democrat in this election? Border is beyond screwed up, inflation at 4 decade highs with no end in sight, violent crime rising with Democrat demands to defund the police, open indoctrination of our kids in public schools, the housing market at a standstill, facing the risk of nuclear war, China about to invade Taiwan, a bumbling lying idiot in the White House and plenty of other issues that have been made worse by Democrats. Seems to me people need to ask themselves were they worse or better off two years ago.
The propaganda war waged against Republicans in general and Donald Trump in particular was a spectacular success. IMO neither the Republicans nor Donald Trump have been anything to cheer about, but it astonishes me that people could not see the disaster Joe Biden and the Democrats would be. And now that we’ve been smacked across the kisser with that bunch’s depravity it astonishes me even more that anyone would vote for any Democrat.
This would be 100% true if the Republican's could have left 50 years of abortion precedent untouched. Unfortunately, R's didn't, and thus what would have been a Dukakis or Carter level Democrat beatdown, has become a slog.
Lake is an election denier. She would get destroyed for that nationally.
With all of the rules agreed to by both sides. Debates are pretty worthless these days.
With all of the rules agreed to by both sides. Debates are pretty worthless these days.
Yeah, election denial has proven to be a career killer for politicians since at least the 2000 election.
Election denier is such a made-up controversy. Democrats have been election deniers for over two decades. Lake had 150 examples for the press and absolutely body slammed them for this sham.
Hobbs is obviously a mental midget and looks like the stereo type of an old maid librarian and the speaking voice of a 7th grade schoolgirl.
Hobbs is not debating because she's knows she'd come off horribly. It's still a bad look.
Lake will win this, she'll pull Masters along for the ride.
Hobbs is obviously a mental midget and looks like the stereo type of an old maid librarian and the speaking voice of a 7th grade schoolgirl.
Hobbs is not debating because she's knows she'd come off horribly. It's still a bad look.
Lake will win this, she'll pull Masters along for the ride.
Dems across the board seemed to question election integrity in 2016. Thoughts?
If people quit listening to the propaganda and paid attention, even this issue wouldn't be a problem. Democrats support abortion up to and immediately after birth, as shown by the abortion bill they tried to shove down our throats. That is clearly opposed by the overwhelming majority of the American people. While some Republicans in the states support outlawing all abortions that doesn't work on a national level and from what I can tell most of the Congressional Republicans support abortion being legal but with reasonable limitations, similar but not as limiting as those in Europe. From polling the American people support abortion with reasonable limitations. Sadly Republicans are ignoring their advantage on this issues and allowing Democrats to frame the narrative.
I agree in premise, but disagree that Republicans are simply ignoring their advantage. There's been a number of states that have pushed heart-beat bills which is basically the outlawing of abortion. Which is just as extreme a position to many as the thought of last minute abortions. Republicans did this to themselves by not taking the middle ground but instead pandering the Christian right wing that's fully anti-abortion.
What is the middle ground as it relates to abortion? Are you thinking states with populations strongly in favor of abortion any time or states whose populations view any abortion as unmitigated murder should not be allowed to structure their laws according to their citizens’ desires?
Maybe I wasn't clear enough, I mean on a national basis. Congress can create legislation that would resolve the issue.
I think most of Europe's standards where abortion is legal for the first 15-20 weeks is the reasonable standard. If Republicans had coalesced around one of these standards, then they would have claimed the middle ground and been able to show how extreme Democrats have gotten in their support of abortion anytime. But unfortunately, they chose to go the route of heartbeat bills and thus demonstrated that the Republicans are as beholded to the Christian Right as the Dems are to Planned Parenthood.
For the record, I agree that RvW was flawed and a clear example of legislating from the bench. But the Republican response to its removal has been every bit as right wing as the Democrat response has been left wing, and thus Rs (again) squandered their opportunity to prove they can legislate in the middle.
Lindsey Graham proposed legislation almost verbatim to that and it was quickly shot down and ridiculed by Democrats. I can't stand Lindsey Graham, the only time I've ever donated to a political campaign in my life was to his primary opponent in 2020.
Sen Lindsey Graham explains proposed federal abortion bill: 'I have no apology for being proudly pro-life'
Sen. Lindsey Graham defended the timing of proposing a federal abortion bill after President Biden’s inflation bill party on "Jesse Watters Primetime."
So you want a national law rather than letting states decide for themselves what is appropriate for them? A stamp from the centralized government? You may be right but I suspect it would blow up in their faces, neither side would be appeased but would become angrier than ever.
While the extremes on both sides would be pissed, the overwhelming majority of the American people already support reasonble limitation on abortion. We need to quit giving any credibility to either side of the extremes and tell them to STFU.
Damn, don't try promoting common sense; it won't work.
Agreed. And if he had done this 3 months earlier, it would have mattered. But he didn't. He waited until the political narrative was already set and so he just confirmed the narrative that Republicans want to outlaw abortion. The details were lost. The Republicans should have pushed this bill after the SC leak and claim the mantle of codifying RvW using the same standard that was prevalent throughout liberal Europe. But instead became the party of legislating women's health care.Lindsey Graham proposed legislation almost verbatim to that and it was quickly shot down and ridiculed by Democrats. I can't stand Lindsey Graham, the only time I've ever donated to a political campaign in my life was to his primary opponent in 2020.
Sen Lindsey Graham explains proposed federal abortion bill: 'I have no apology for being proudly pro-life'
Sen. Lindsey Graham defended the timing of proposing a federal abortion bill after President Biden’s inflation bill party on "Jesse Watters Primetime."www.foxnews.com
I’m sure I’m in the minority here but I do not think abortion is high on the priority list for most voters, nor do I think it should be. In fact IMO it should not be considered a national interest at all.
What I find interesting about the abortion debate is how most people agree on the solution but because of politics the solution never gets implemented. Personally I am against abortion but willing to compromise so as long as Democrats want to play their games to manipulate their voters I'm fine with how it stands. Maybe things will change when Democrats voters figure out their leaders are only interested in keeping them riled up for their own political gain instead of solving their problems.
The Marocain Poke shrub was aided by the Dimm vote harvesting scheme that included 2000 Mules, not 81,000 legal voters. The shrub's promises very likely helped Trump set an incumbent record in swelling his vote total.
Marocain Poke is dead on in identifying this dismal failure.
It was high for the dims back in August or so, but is now mostly a nothing burger given inflation, crime, blah, blah, blah, that the dims caused and have done nothing to alleviate.
unbelievable. The democrats and media can get you to agree to anything. Debates are worthless? You npc’s amaze me.
The only solution is for dimm voters to pull their heads out of their asses. It's a slow process though but progress is being made I'm sure.
I don't have any answer for when abortion should or should not be allowed. But by definition every fertilized human empryo is a human being. If not destroyed it will be a functioning, thinking, feeling human.
I didn't think of that in my youth. I think about that every day now.
I didn't think of that in my youth. I think about that every day now.
With the medical technology that is available today, killing an innocent, defenseless unborn baby is about as radical and irresponsible as it comes but there is a large group of people out there that think it's perfect acceptable. Even though I am adamantly against abortion, I understand how divisive the issue is and the only way to solve it is to compromise. Unfortunately Democrats refuse to compromise and want the issue to play politics with.
They could have codified a reasonable law, but they chose one they knew they wouldn't get Democratic consensus (abortion up to birth for any reason).
Abortion is the Palestinian of social issues. The Arabs have and always wanted to keep Palestinians under the thumb of the Israelis (even though they are really Jordanians displaced by the Six-Day War), but fail to reach a political solution so they can keep presenting them as pawns to continue to demonize Israel. The Democrats don't want to come to a reasonable political solution on abortion, so they can continue to use unborn humans as pawns to continue to attempt to demonize Republicans.
My body my choice is a bullshit argument. If women truly believed in their body their choice they would choose birth control. What women really mean is they shouldn't be responsible for their own decisions. Oh and spare me the miniscule number of cases of incest and rape. If that was the only reason abortion would be legal most every pro life person would support it.
You keep making the point that the Republican position on abortion is strictly a religious one. While I don't disagree with much of what you wrote, on this one thing I want to point out that for many like myself, my stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the Constitution and Science. I could care less about the religious argument, other than those who use it have come to the same conclusion I have but through different means.
I think compromise on the issue can be found but you first have to have people on both sides willing to compromise. The biggest problem you will run into on the anti-abortion side is that when presented the fetus is a life, and not a clump of cells, which makes the taking of that life murder. Lee H. Oswald was murdered in cold blood. Everyone was happy about it, but it was still a murder. Once life if applied, then the maintaining of that life is the only reasonable standard to be obtained.
If you wanted a national codification, not of Roe (which is horrible case law) but of abortion then 15-20 is halfway through a pregnancy. If you leave it at those weeks, then:
You would be ok with aborting this baby then. FYI from what I understand that baby is still alive today.
I could be convinced of 4-10 for a national codification, but with the caveat that states can make that more restrictive as they see fit, but not past 10 weeks.
At 10 weeks you are pushing the limits of what I would consider barely tolerable, not reasonable, and I'm not talking about religion here.
I don't follow your logic. Is it not the same human life at 4 weeks as 12? What is the moral justification for accepting ending the human's life at 4 weeks but not 12?You keep making the point that the Republican position on abortion is strictly a religious one. While I don't disagree with much of what you wrote, on this one thing I want to point out that for many like myself, my stance on abortion has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the Constitution and Science. I could care less about the religious argument, other than those who use it have come to the same conclusion I have but through different means.
I think compromise on the issue can be found but you first have to have people on both sides willing to compromise. The biggest problem you will run into on the anti-abortion side is that when presented the fetus is a life, and not a clump of cells, which makes the taking of that life murder. Lee H. Oswald was murdered in cold blood. Everyone was happy about it, but it was still a murder. Once life if applied, then the maintaining of that life is the only reasonable standard to be obtained.
If you wanted a national codification, not of Roe (which is horrible case law) but of abortion then 15-20 is halfway through a pregnancy. If you leave it at those weeks, then:
You would be ok with aborting this baby then. FYI from what I understand that baby is still alive today.
I could be convinced of 4-10 for a national codification, but with the caveat that states can make that more restrictive as they see fit, but not past 10 weeks.
At 10 weeks you are pushing the limits of what I would consider barely tolerable, not reasonable, and I'm not talking about religion here.
You said you think a compromise can be found. I disagree. Anyone who thinks abortion is murder will never compromise (and probably shouldn’t). And people who think a woman has the right to determine whether to allow something to continue to grow in her body, or terminate it at any time, will also never be satisfied with a national compromise. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again abortion should not be a national issue to be “settled” by a national law.
