That is Ned's sister and it has long been theorized that she is Jon's mother with Rhaegar Targaryen as his father.
Jon Snow speculation
- Thread starter Been Jammin
- Start date
I don't think the potion is pertinent. Based on what we have seen (HBO) and read (GRRM), I'm pretty sure the necklace is the source of her illusion. My guess is that the prior scene, with her in the bath, was an oversight. Either they made a mistake, or the writers had not yet delved deep enough into GRRM's notes to know that they should have had here wear the necklace in that scene.
I have seen speculation that depending on how strongly the other person believes in the illusion (in the bath scene she was talking to Stannis' wife), it is possible that the necklace is not as important after the viewer has become accustomed to the illusion over a long period of time. So, who knows....
Not sure what you are saying about Ghost? Are you saying that it is clear that Jon had warged into Ghost and then warged back into Jon's body after everyone left the room? Because that was not my impression at all. I thought Ghost just woke up when he realized Jon was back.
Agree about Roose. That was a surprise to me. At first, I thought he had stabbed Ramsay. HBO has taken the Ramsay character a lot further than GRRM and really amped up his level of evil. He almost feels like a somewhat minor character in the books (at least through Book 5).
Another big moment from last night was the return of Jaqen Haagar. Maybe I am mistaken, but I don't think we have seen him since he gave Arya the coin before she headed to Bravos.
I also like the scenes on the Iron Islands. I thought it was interesting that they showed Euron tossing Balon off the bridge. In the books, Euron has been away from the Islands for years and does not return until the day after Balon plunges to his death. There is speculation that he snuck back early and killed Balon, but it is never confirmed. In addition to that Aaron also mentioned the Kingsmoot. I am surprised that happened as it seems to be a tangential part of the story that HBO could have left out. I guess they will use it as a tool to develop the character of Euron.
So, for those of you that don't care about spoilers, I have something that I am pretty sure is coming up later this season. This has nothing to do with any of the characters that have been mentioned in this thread, and will be a significant development. Don't read if you don't want spoilers..
I read an article a couple of months ago that Ian McShane (Al Swearingen from Deadwood) had been cast for 1 episode of GOT this season. In an interview, he said that he will be playing a priest who "brings a beloved character back to life". In the article, everyone assumed that meant that he would have something to do with bringing Snow back. We now know that is not true. I had already assumed that to be the case. It seemed unlikely that he would have anything to do with JS considering he wasn't already at the wall or even introduced, etc. I think it is very likely that it will be The Hound, and we will eventually get to see him kill Sir Strong (Cersei's bodyguard). My guess is that he doesn't bring The Hound back to life but finds him nearly dead and nurses him back to health (like what we all think happened in the books)
Yeah I believe that we will see the Clegane bowl either this season or next.
Makes sense. I was surprised that no one had to die to bring him back to life. But, maybe I shouldn't have been since Thoros brought Dondarion back to life multiple times without anyone being sacrificed.
Perhaps you were referring to Jon being a darker, less human version of himself. I think that also makes a lot of sense.
One thing that I am very interested to see is what happens at the wall going forward. I expected Davos to take Jon's body south of the wall before he was brought back to life. Now that he is back, he will still be the Lord Commander and would seem less likely to head south to take on Ramsay at Winterfell. Since he died, he is no longer bound by his oath, but I have a hard time imagining him leaving his brothers without a leader to take an army south to Winterfell.
He for sure brings the Hound back or saves him from death. This IMO is the wandering priest that Bre and Pod ran into on their travels.
Maybe Sansa returning and telling about Ramsey will change his tune or Ramsey marches on Castle Black and Jon uses the Wildling Army to defeat him.
When they met that one guy with an eye patch few seasons ago he said something about coming back several times and he said he was s little less of himself each time
Actually, the wandering priest was Septon Meribald. He took Brienne and Pod (and Sir Hyle Hunt) to the Quiet Isle. There, they met "The Elder Brother", who was the leader on the Isle. He was the one who claimed to have found the Hound, as he lay dying. He claimed that he buried him after he died, but it is likely that he actually saved his life and that Clegane is (in the books) in the process of putting his dark days behind him and becoming a religious man. For HBO's purposes, they probably won't show us both Meribald and Elder Brother, so you may be right about him playing the former.
Right. That is Dondarion. In the books, we also have Lady Stoneheart. She was dead for 2 weeks, and came back as someone who is depicted as less than human. She is filled with hate and vengeance and seems to be devoid of mercy. It could be argued that this is due to what happened to her family, but at least 1 character says it was because she was dead too long (Thoros, I think).
Dondarion says that he feels a little less of himself each time he comes back, but we don't get clarification as to what that exactly means. I think he was always brought back pretty much immediately after dying. We will have to wait and see if Jon is significantly different after bring brought back over a day after he died.
Keep in mind Jon could warg into his wolf while he was dead also so his mind might be better preserved then the others. Just something different about Jon compared to the other two (LSH and Dondarion).
Sir Robert Strong.
In the books (and pretty much in the show), The Mountain (Gregor Clegane) is poisoned by the Red Viper, but manages to kill the Red Viper (meaning Tyrion is found guilty of killing Joffrey). The Mountain is then turned over to Qyburn, who takes him to the dungeons below the Red Keep and performs medical/magical experiments on him. Qyburn either saves him or brings him back to life and then he is called Sir Robert Strong. He is made a Kingsguard and becomes Cersei's pet bodyguard. He never speaks in the books and there is some question as to whether he is able to or if he even has a head within his helmet.
Ghost only role as far as I could tall was that he was the only one who realized Jon was alive after all the rest gave up. Jon and the wolf have always had a special bond. I do believe he will eventually wag into it but I don't think he did then. Ghost just immediately sensed what was happening. My comment was just that him being in the room was a tip off as to the outcome. I'm far more interested to see in what direction they take the Jon character now. I'm assuming part of the purpose of this was to release him from his nights watch vows and responsibilities. Can't wait to see where he goes.
They did make the scene look like Roose was chocking Ramsey for a second. Nice misdirection.
There's some question as to how the brothers will react to Jon since they know he died and the whole history with the white walkers rising from the dead. I don't think he would just automatically be restored to lord commander.
@FMPoke You and I agree about what was going on with Ghost in last night's episode. I still don't think we will get much of Jon warging into Ghost, as it simply isn't that easy to do on TV (as opposed to the books, where you can actually see inside the mind of a character). I think HBO has gone out of their way to downplay the warging abilities of all characters not named Bran. His warging set the stage for what he is doing now that allows him to see the past.
What happens at The Wall, going forward, is going to be one of the most interesting aspects of the next 2-3 episodes. If I had made predictions prior to last night's episode, I would have said that the Wildlings and Nights Watch would have had an all out battle last night, leaving the Nights Watch pretty much extinct, the Wall undefended, and no reason for Jon to stick around. Either that, or Thorne would have turned the majority of the Watch against Snow and there would be no way he could stick around at The Wall. However, with Thorne (and company) imprisoned, and there still being a significant contingent of Crows at Castle Black, it seems like they will need Jon to lead them. He is no longer tied to the Night's Watch (at least not by oath), but it will be interesting to see what convinces him to leave the Wall and take his Wildling army south...which I am sure will happen. You may be right about the Crows feeling like he can't be trusted after returning from death.
When he leaves, I am wondering who will be the Lord Commander. Maybe Dolorous Ed? He won't be able to accompany Jon to the south without breaking his vows.
What happens at The Wall, going forward, is going to be one of the most interesting aspects of the next 2-3 episodes. If I had made predictions prior to last night's episode, I would have said that the Wildlings and Nights Watch would have had an all out battle last night, leaving the Nights Watch pretty much extinct, the Wall undefended, and no reason for Jon to stick around. Either that, or Thorne would have turned the majority of the Watch against Snow and there would be no way he could stick around at The Wall. However, with Thorne (and company) imprisoned, and there still being a significant contingent of Crows at Castle Black, it seems like they will need Jon to lead them. He is no longer tied to the Night's Watch (at least not by oath), but it will be interesting to see what convinces him to leave the Wall and take his Wildling army south...which I am sure will happen. You may be right about the Crows feeling like he can't be trusted after returning from death.
When he leaves, I am wondering who will be the Lord Commander. Maybe Dolorous Ed? He won't be able to accompany Jon to the south without breaking his vows.
You think?
I don't see the point in Sansa making it to Castle Black if Jon is not there. Where would she go from there? Back to Winterfell to find Jon? That would make her escape seem kind of pointless as she would have no place safe to go from there. My guess is that Ramsay recaptures her (and Brienne/Pod) shortly before Jon arrives at Winterfell to rescue them.
Would have been nice. McShane has been quoted as saying that he only appears in one episode. I'm too lazy to go find the article, but he was admonished for giving away spoilers about his role on the show. His responses to the criticism were pretty funny.
I have said several times that some gossip mag supposedly witnessed the filming on a scene in Winterfell courtyard with Sansa, Ramsey, Theon and a giant. With Sansa escaping I thought maybe it was rubbish but now seeing the giant and Jon being awake, maybe they do get captured and Jon finds out and takes the wildlings and giant to go rescue her?
Just out of curiosity, how does one witness filming a scene with said giant when they are clearly cgi?
I think it is pretty clear that Jon will go to Winterfell. Melisandre said (in the first episode of Season 6) "I saw him fighting at Winterfell". So, it seems likely that there is a battle for Winterfell upcoming, with Jon taking it back and Ramsay likely dying. If you think about it, Jon's army would have to consist of Wildlings (including Wun Wun). The men of the Nights Watch would be bound to the Wall by their oaths, so he can't take them with him to Winterfell.
Well, if Jon used the same argument Stannis did about 'guard the realms of man.' If Ramsey decides to attack Castle Black or makes some other sort of action that threatens the 'realms of man' then maybe they can twist it so. I doubt Jon would need too much more than the wildlings and whatever northerners would back him.
Also, has anyone else heard much about Meera (the girl with Bran) being Jon's twin?
Does anyone think Hodor's condition has anything to do with the white walkers?
Also, has anyone else heard much about Meera (the girl with Bran) being Jon's twin?
Does anyone think Hodor's condition has anything to do with the white walkers?
I don't know exactly how it works but he scene is obviously filmed and the CGI added later. I'm sure there is some kind of stand in for the giant.
If Jon goes south, I think he leaves a heavy contingent at the wall, he knows the main focus is defending the wall from the white walkers. Though he may believe he needs to unite the north first to stand a chance.
If Jon does retake it, I think he leaves Sansa there in charge and he goes back north.
I was disappointed in the look of the 3 eyed crow. Nothing like he's supposed to look.
Is there ever a bad Dinklege (sp) scene?
If Jon does retake it, I think he leaves Sansa there in charge and he goes back north.
I was disappointed in the look of the 3 eyed crow. Nothing like he's supposed to look.
Is there ever a bad Dinklege (sp) scene?
lol that's a good point, shorty's lines are always SO good.
"Next time I have an idea like that, punch me in the face."
Classic.
I heard someone say they accepted him not because they are smart but because he's a Targ.
"Next time I have an idea like that, punch me in the face."
Classic.
I heard someone say they accepted him not because they are smart but because he's a Targ.
You make a good point about Ramsay. HBO did lay the groundwork with Ramsay talking about attacking Castle Black and pointing out that it was not built to defend an attack from the south. Jon could convince the Nights Watch to attack Winterfell as a preemptive strike to keep them from having to fight a war on two fronts and because they are so vulnerable from the south.
I'm glad you brought up the Meera/Jon twins thing. I had read that theory but totally forgot about it. We should find out in the next episode as Bran is going to witness the Tower of Joy events. Of course, it is possible that GRRM intends to reveal that they are twins but HBO will go in a different direction.
If Meera were the third dragon head that would allow Tyrion to still be a Lanister, which seems more feasible.
I think there was WAAAAY more foreshadowing in that entire Bran scene than people realize. Everyone is focusing on Jon's mother but I think Hodor and Meera are both part of the bigger story.
I think there was WAAAAY more foreshadowing in that entire Bran scene than people realize. Everyone is focusing on Jon's mother but I think Hodor and Meera are both part of the bigger story.
The Hodor thing is interesting. I am curious to see where that goes. Wondering if his story was something that GRRM shared with HBO, or if GRRM never planned to reveal his back story, and HBO is just making that part up.
In the books, it does seem as if Hodor, Jojen and Meera have met something of a dead end, as they are relegated to just hanging around while Bran is trained by Bloodraven. Jojen appears to be about to die. The Meera theory would make her a key character. Hodor seems to be nothing more than transport for Bran. I am curious if Bran will actually every leave the cave of if he will be incorporated into the tree like Bloodraven. Apparently HBO plans for him to go somewhere at some point.
In the books, it does seem as if Hodor, Jojen and Meera have met something of a dead end, as they are relegated to just hanging around while Bran is trained by Bloodraven. Jojen appears to be about to die. The Meera theory would make her a key character. Hodor seems to be nothing more than transport for Bran. I am curious if Bran will actually every leave the cave of if he will be incorporated into the tree like Bloodraven. Apparently HBO plans for him to go somewhere at some point.
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I forgot about the twins thing as well. She certainly looks more like and acts more like Jon than Jojen (and what we've heard of the other Cragomen.
The Hodor thing is odd. Traumatic event rendered him dumb, or witch spell to shut him up? Is the actual word "Hodor" a clue that everyone has been overlooking?
The Hodor thing is odd. Traumatic event rendered him dumb, or witch spell to shut him up? Is the actual word "Hodor" a clue that everyone has been overlooking?
Non-book reader here (I did read the first one...but that's it).
However, as soon as I saw the flashback scene with a young Hodor, I told my wife... I bet the word "Hodor" will have great significance at some point. There is no way that's an accident.
