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Is It Possible You’ve Been Played?

Wow, Harry, you packed a lot into two paragraphs. You say you support anything he does in this matter, and that’s fine. I think your are willingly being manipulated. If the link has any credibility I don’t see any other explanation. I won’t attempt to speak for the “others” but as for me I feel not the slightest shame in being against a policy I feel is inappropriate (the wall). It appears to me the Mexican tariff threat was nothing but a monumental con job, something in which Donald Trump excels. As far as your comment about “nit picking on how he makes the sausage” I would only reply that is my job - my duty! - as a sovereign citizen. It’s when citizens meekly accept bad policies that our republic will be in grave danger. You nit picked Obama’s policies, did you not? You cheered as Republicans threw up roadblocks every chance they got, right? Like Rush Limbaugh you wanted him to fail, correct? But now you object when I and others oppose your guy? That’s an inconsistent attitude.

Call me and I’ll tell you where our next job site will be. You can come on out and protest, and I’ll take you to lunch, my treat. I haven’t stopped Trump from doing one single thing he’s wanted to do, he blunders along in spite of my annoyance. That’s probably what will happen if you come to one of my jobs.

Willingly being manipulated? If you want vanilla ice cream and I spend 2 hours trying to convince you that you want vanilla ice cream and I might say things that are exaggerated or the timeline is off for how the ice cream is made are you willingly being manipulated? No. You want it regardless.
 
You cited that this deal was finalized in March of this year. Would you please provide your source for that?
I’ve seen it in a couple of places, but this is the only one I remembered where to look. Warning: if you’re an “always Trumpster” you will probably be offended because he doesn’t drool at the mention of Trump’s name (although he does not write in an insulting fashion, unless you have paper thin skin).

https://www.aier.org/article/trade-wars-new-level-bizarre
 
I’ve seen it in a couple of places, but this is the only one I remembered where to look. Warning: if you’re an “always Trumpster” you will probably be offended because he doesn’t drool at the mention of Trump’s name (although he does not write in an insulting fashion, unless you have paper thin skin).

https://www.aier.org/article/trade-wars-new-level-bizarre
I remember hearing this "worship" charge against staunch Reagan supporters back in the 80's. Made me laugh back then, too.
 
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The reworked NAFTA agreement was supposedly finalized at that point. However, I think that misses the larger scope of immigration concessions that supposedly have been agreed to upon the latest 'tariff' threat, such as the 6k soldiers to provide greater support at Mexico's southern border.
It is my understanding the only immigration concessions were a relatively small increase in the number of Mexican National Guardsmen to be deployed. I don’t know how many Mexican National Guardsmen there are, but one thing I read said there aren’t very many to begin with. Also, as I understand it the negotiation was separate from the reworked NAFTA. On that point you may be correct, but what I have read indicates they are not the same negotiations.
 
This is rife with generalizations, assumptions, projections, and an insinuation that Trump supporters are stupid, fine being "played," or not independent minded (which falls under the aforementioned assumptions or projections).

I take the time to respond to you helpfully, because you don't seem bent like @Syskatine or @Pokeabear . They display characteristics that make dialogue pretty worthless. But your level of projection is inching you toward their bucket.

If your hope is to edify, I'd encourage you be more judicious with your choice of words and what you allow yourself to believe about other posters here.


Yes, everything I wrote was a generalization, assumption, projection and insinuation. I never said it was otherwise. Just said it was a possibility that you ought to consider. I made no insinuation, however, that Trump supporters are stupid. You are, IMHO, so blinded with loyalty and adoration for the man it blocks any possibility for you to question whether you are being fed the truth. There is too much consensus in what so many of you say it makes it hard to believe you are independent thinkers (at least as far as Trump is concerned). Independent thinkers would occasionally find fault in one of the man’s policies. But for the most part condemnation of any of the man’s policies or utterances are met with scorn and counter-condemnation. If that offends anybody’s sensibility I apologize, but this is supposed to be a board for opinions, is it not? That’s my opinion.
 
Some undeniable truths: Trump is not a plantation cracker. Black Americans, Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans are seeing the lowest unemployment numbers since records have been kept.

I've never seen such smiles down on 11th Street. Pastor Scott says Trump may be best president for black America in his life time. The Latinos over at D. R. Horton are always too busy to stop and chat.

And yes, I plan to vote for "racist" Trump again.
What you wrote is undeniably true. I’m not sure what makes you think Trump is a racist, but you are entitled to your opinion.
 
Willingly being manipulated? If you want vanilla ice cream and I spend 2 hours trying to convince you that you want vanilla ice cream and I might say things that are exaggerated or the timeline is off for how the ice cream is made are you willingly being manipulated? No. You want it regardless.
Yes, Harry, you are willingly being manipulated if you know what is being told to you is a lie and you don’t care. You should care that you are being lied to and cynically being manipulated by Trump to gain your support. If you support the man no matter what he says or does you (and people who feel the same way) are paving the way for a “strong man on a white horse” to swoop in and take away your liberty. You should insist on being told the truth, insist that you be told the truth or you will not support the action, no matter how badly you want it.
 
I remember hearing this "worship" charge against staunch Reagan supporters back in the 80's. Made me laugh back then, too.
Yes, it’s a common occurrence. Both Clinton’s enjoyed plenty of worship. I wonder if that made you laugh!
 
Yes, Harry, you are willingly being manipulated if you know what is being told to you is a lie and you don’t care. You should care that you are being lied to and cynically being manipulated by Trump to gain your support. If you support the man no matter what he says or does you (and people who feel the same way) are paving the way for a “strong man on a white horse” to swoop in and take away your liberty. You should insist on being told the truth, insist that you be told the truth or you will not support the action, no matter how badly you want it.

I’ll type slow. I want the border to zero illegals. I didn’t make the Democrats political terrorists. I didn’t make the parasite that infects people’s brains that thinks illegals are an ok thing. Whatever trump has to do, so be it. I’m not being manipulated because I don’t care as long as it gets done.
 
Yes, everything I wrote was a generalization, assumption, projection and insinuation. I never said it was otherwise. Just said it was a possibility that you ought to consider. I made no insinuation, however, that Trump supporters are stupid. You are, IMHO, so blinded with loyalty and adoration for the man it blocks any possibility for you to question whether you are being fed the truth. There is too much consensus in what so many of you say it makes it hard to believe you are independent thinkers (at least as far as Trump is concerned). Independent thinkers would occasionally find fault in one of the man’s policies. But for the most part condemnation of any of the man’s policies or utterances are met with scorn and counter-condemnation. If that offends anybody’s sensibility I apologize, but this is supposed to be a board for opinions, is it not? That’s my opinion.

This is news to me.

Yeah it's a board for opinions, but your opinions are defective in many cases.

Have you figured out what substitute goods/services are yet? Do you know why I read a paragraph like this and know that it's your opinion that is the one needing closer scrutiny?

"A 5 percent tariff, all else equal, will take from Americans $18.1 billion, or $141 per American household. Increasing that tariff to 25 percent will take from Americans $92.5 billion, or $725 per household. The magic number for Trump is $72.7 billion. So long as this number is floating out there, Trump will seek new ways to punish Americans for buying goods marked with Mexico as the country of origin."
 
Yes, Harry, you are willingly being manipulated if you know what is being told to you is a lie and you don’t care. You should care that you are being lied to and cynically being manipulated by Trump to gain your support. If you support the man no matter what he says or does you (and people who feel the same way) are paving the way for a “strong man on a white horse” to swoop in and take away your liberty. You should insist on being told the truth, insist that you be told the truth or you will not support the action, no matter how badly you want it.

Is Trump lying specifically to Harry, or is Trump communicating to others, like a target audience, in ways you simply don't understand?

You seem pretty damn locked in that it is the former.
 
Is Trump lying specifically to Harry, or is Trump communicating to others, like a target audience, in ways you simply don't understand?

You seem pretty damn locked in that it is the former.
Trump's form of communication seems to be via the lie. I haven't seen a president lie this often since Bill Clinton. I always said Bill Clinton is a pathological liar, a person who lies to see if he can get away with it, and if he does get away with it he tells a bigger lie the next time. I can't decide if Trump telling lies is pathological or habitual. I lean toward habitual, a person that has lied so often it just becomes second nature to him. What's even worse in Trump's case is he appears to actually believe his lies, even though he knows he's telling a lie. It's like he thinks if he says something is so, then it's so because he said it is so. It would be comically entertaining if it weren't so potentially hazardous. It is concerning, though, because he knows he's lying to you, you know he's lying to you, and you don't care, you are certain you can interpret what he really means, you understand and approve that what he's saying isn't really true. It's a hell of a way to run a government!
 
Trump's form of communication seems to be via the lie. I haven't seen a president lie this often since Bill Clinton. I always said Bill Clinton is a pathological liar, a person who lies to see if he can get away with it, and if he does get away with it he tells a bigger lie the next time. I can't decide if Trump telling lies is pathological or habitual. I lean toward habitual, a person that has lied so often it just becomes second nature to him. What's even worse in Trump's case is he appears to actually believe his lies, even though he knows he's telling a lie. It's like he thinks if he says something is so, then it's so because he said it is so. It would be comically entertaining if it weren't so potentially hazardous. It is concerning, though, because he knows he's lying to you, you know he's lying to you, and you don't care, you are certain you can interpret what he really means, you understand and approve that what he's saying isn't really true. It's a hell of a way to run a government!

You sound like you are in a loop that you are unable to break out of.

See my response to you above pertaining to your linked article.
 
This is news to me.

Yeah it's a board for opinions, but your opinions are defective in many cases.

Have you figured out what substitute goods/services are yet? Do you know why I read a paragraph like this and know that it's your opinion that is the one needing closer scrutiny?

"A 5 percent tariff, all else equal, will take from Americans $18.1 billion, or $141 per American household. Increasing that tariff to 25 percent will take from Americans $92.5 billion, or $725 per household. The magic number for Trump is $72.7 billion. So long as this number is floating out there, Trump will seek new ways to punish Americans for buying goods marked with Mexico as the country of origin."
Two things:

1) Yes, Brad, I know what substitute goods and services are. I am not replying to you because you want me to state your case for you. I won't do that. Make your case regarding substitutes and we'll take it from there. I'm not going to make your argument for you. The fact that you refuse to argue your own case makes me wonder if you really have a case, or you heard the words "substitute goods and services" and thought you'd throw that out there even though you don't know how to put those word into context.

2) It is obvious you read the link and didn't understand a word of what he said.
 
You sound like you are in a loop that you are unable to break out of.

See my response to you above pertaining to your linked article.
Yes, it seems to me we are in an echo chamber, both of us trying to find new ways to say the same thing we've said a hundred times. It may seem to you that I'm in a loop because I am having to respond to three or four people at a time, having to re-explain what I just said. To be honest it gets really old!
 
Two things:

1) Yes, Brad, I know what substitute goods and services are. I am not replying to you because you want me to state your case for you. I won't do that. Make your case regarding substitutes and we'll take it from there. I'm not going to make your argument for you. The fact that you refuse to argue your own case makes me wonder if you really have a case, or you heard the words "substitute goods and services" and thought you'd throw that out there even though you don't know how to put those word into context.

2) It is obvious you read the link and didn't understand a word of what he said.

So when you cite an article that states something like "U.S. consumers will feel 25 billion in PAIN," are you lying? Are you being just like Trump?
 
Outrage comes, outrage goes in this day and age. I'm so traumatized by Whary's politics my memory isn't the same as it used to be.
MellowHeftyGannet-size_restricted.gif
 
Is Trump lying specifically to Harry, or is Trump communicating to others, like a target audience, in ways you simply don't understand?

Trump consistently hires people who opposed him in 2015 - 2016 during the GOP primaries — which has helped wreck his agenda.


He did it yet again today (see below), and he’s done it repeatedly throughout his term.


People who were supporting Trump during the 2016 GOP primaries (when FOX News was trying to take him down and GOP talking heads were ridiculing his platform) actually wanted and expected Trump to achieve what he ran on — and those weren’t Paul Ryan’s tax cuts and a new foreign embassy.



We never believed Trump would turn into an All-Tweets, No Action President. I’ve enjoyed his Twitter as much as anyone, but we are long past celebrating those sugar-high Tweets when the border crossing numbers are catostrophically bad.

Trump has lost significant support from his 2016 online base because of all this — unlike Boomers who never held their leaders accountable on immigration.


Today:





Arguably the worst Trump hire ever below, for a critical position — we are facing the consequences right now.


Note the article date:



CCC10416-589-D-4-F9-C-88-E7-4-C51-C38-CDA0-D.jpg



359-CEBA5-ED0-B-46-AF-9251-66-E89-D3-B1-E01.jpg




Lastly: he kept rewarding the Swamp by signing those spending bills with no wall funding:



6545-E6-EF-B2-F1-4-BB2-8-F67-FA5662-C868-F3.jpg
 
So when you cite an article that states something like "U.S. consumers will feel 25 billion in PAIN," are you lying? Are you being just like Trump?
Households would have lost between $150 and $700 per year on average. Perhaps that seems like a small price to pay. For some households it’s the difference between getting braces for their kid’s teeth or not. Maybe you could pony up enough for 100 or so households. Otherwise they will feel pain.
 
Trump consistently hires people who opposed him in 2015 - 2016 during the GOP primaries — which has helped wreck his agenda.


He did it yet again today (see below), and he’s done it repeatedly throughout his term.


People who were supporting Trump during the 2016 GOP primaries (when FOX News was trying to take him down and GOP talking heads were ridiculing his platform) actually wanted and expected Trump to achieve what he ran on — and those weren’t Paul Ryan’s tax cuts and a new foreign embassy.



We never believed Trump would turn into an All-Tweets, No Action President. I’ve enjoyed his Twitter as much as anyone, but we are long past celebrating those sugar-high Tweets when the border crossing numbers are catostrophically bad.

Trump has lost significant support from his 2016 online base because of all this — unlike Boomers who never held their leaders accountable on immigration.


Today:





Arguably the worst Trump hire ever below, for a critical position — we are facing the consequences right now.


Note the article date:



CCC10416-589-D-4-F9-C-88-E7-4-C51-C38-CDA0-D.jpg



359-CEBA5-ED0-B-46-AF-9251-66-E89-D3-B1-E01.jpg




Lastly: he kept rewarding the Swamp by signing those spending bills with no wall funding:



6545-E6-EF-B2-F1-4-BB2-8-F67-FA5662-C868-F3.jpg
This is a fascinating post. Off point of the thread, but, hell, that went off the rails a long time ago. I wonder how many of those appointees would be considered NeoCons. At any rate they are definitely establishment types, wouldn’t you agree? Perhaps they represent his true agenda while he suckers his base pretending to be antiestablishment. Why would an antiestablishment guy hire his purported enemy? Is it possible they’re not his enemy after all? Just something to ponder. OK, you “always Trumpsters” let ‘er rip!
 
As a conservative, I've been happy watching Trump enjoy more success than even Reagan implementing our agenda, especially early on. I like the tune he's playing. He said he would achieve a lot and he has.
 
Households would have lost between $150 and $700 per year on average. Perhaps that seems like a small price to pay. For some households it’s the difference between getting braces for their kid’s teeth or not. Maybe you could pony up enough for 100 or so households. Otherwise they will feel pain.
On the surface, it looks like you are practicing the half truths you're so critical of. So you're just a liar? Which is it 150 or 700? I missed it when the tariff man came door to door forcibly taking his due.
 
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On the surface, it looks like you are practicing the half truths you're so critical of. So you're just a liar? Which is it 150 or 700? I missed it when the tariff man came door to door forcibly taking his due.
Like I said earlier, you read the link and missed the point. The point was if Trump’s Mexican tariffs had been put into effect at 5% it would have cost each household roughly $150/year, while if it had raised to 25%, as Trump insisted would happen the average yearly cost per household would have approached $700. (I’m too lazy to go back to the link and get the exact figures.).
 
Like I said earlier, you read the link and missed the point. The point was if Trump’s Mexican tariffs had been put into effect at 5% it would have cost each household roughly $150/year, while if it had raised to 25%, as Trump insisted would happen the average yearly cost per household would have approached $700. (I’m too lazy to go back to the link and get the exact figures.).
Im aware of all possible "points" you may be attempting to make.

All of them are imprecise and antiquated. Your knowledge of tariffs (and those you link) falls far short of modern reality. We no longer purchase fewer eggs from country B while they purchase less of our timber. Exactly how many or few product combinations do you think there are Dan?

When I go to buy my preferred 1 pound of beef, only to find its 10% more per pound, so I purchase 2 pounds of chicken for the same dollar amount (my constraint), am I better or worse off?

If I''d like to buy a washer, do I do it now, or wait for the sale?

The dimensionality you bring to the tariff conversation is, frankly, ignorant and out dated. And how you speak about pain and cost would be better served to extrapolate out to include value and time. That also needs to include shareholder cost, because I gauran-damb-tee you that not all of your proclaimed costs are being passed along.

You need to subset your populations to have any meaning when expressing impact. As it is, you're a non- economist trying to talk economics... it shows. You, therefore, link your preferred talking head and tell people on the board that they are duped.

But you're a preacher, Dan. I get it. Your religion is the right one, you just know it deep down inside.
 
It is my understanding the only immigration concessions were a relatively small increase in the number of Mexican National Guardsmen to be deployed. I don’t know how many Mexican National Guardsmen there are, but one thing I read said there aren’t very many to begin with. Also, as I understand it the negotiation was separate from the reworked NAFTA. On that point you may be correct, but what I have read indicates they are not the same negotiations.

I agree they weren't the same negotiations. But your story doesn't reflect that. When it says the negotiations were completed in March, I believe its referring to the NAFTA negotiations.
 
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Households would have lost between $150 and $700 per year on average. Perhaps that seems like a small price to pay. For some households it’s the difference between getting braces for their kid’s teeth or not. Maybe you could pony up enough for 100 or so households. Otherwise they will feel pain.
Hey, and if its stolen goods.. oh well. No biggie.
 
Damn it Brad. You can't bring real world examples in to Dan's thought process. That screws up his entire narrative.
Im aware of all possible "points" you may be attempting to make.

All of them are imprecise and antiquated. Your knowledge of tariffs (and those you link) falls far short of modern reality. We no longer purchase fewer eggs from country B while they purchase less of our timber. Exactly how many or few product combinations do you think there are Dan?

When I go to buy my preferred 1 pound of beef, only to find its 10% more per pound, so I purchase 2 pounds of chicken for the same dollar amount (my constraint), am I better or worse off?

If I''d like to buy a washer, do I do it now, or wait for the sale?

The dimensionality you bring to the tariff conversation is, frankly, ignorant and out dated. And how you speak about pain and cost would be better served to extrapolate out to include value and time. That also needs to include shareholder cost, because I gauran-damb-tee you that not all of your proclaimed costs are being passed along.

You need to subset your populations to have any meaning when expressing impact. As it is, you're a non- economist trying to talk economics... it shows. You, therefore, link your preferred talking head and tell people on the board that they are duped.

But you're a preacher, Dan. I get it. Your religion is the right one, you just know it deep down inside.
 
This is a fascinating post. Off point of the thread, but, hell, that went off the rails a long time ago. I wonder how many of those appointees would be considered NeoCons. At any rate they are definitely establishment types, wouldn’t you agree? Perhaps they represent his true agenda while he suckers his base pretending to be antiestablishment. Why would an antiestablishment guy hire his purported enemy? Is it possible they’re not his enemy after all? Just something to ponder. OK, you “always Trumpsters” let ‘er rip!

I did NaZi dan, nz and sys ever finding venn overlap, but some pretty diverse perspectives are all saying the same thing. Maga, that oughta tell you something.
 
What you wrote is undeniably true. I’m not sure what makes you think Trump is a racist, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Note I put racist in quotation marks. Baseless racist charges is MO for the left.

I'm about 5/8 racist. About 1/4 victim, house boy, token, "white boy", traitor and Uncle Tom. I'm about 1/8 lazy. I learned all this from the left at an early age.

I can find no charges of racism on record against President Trump till he announced his intentions of running for president. Today we find President Trump our nation's leading racist and woman abuser. Guess from whom I learned this. You guessed it. Check out Bernie Sanders recently in a campaign speech? You know, the plantation cracker who has never done anything for black Americans.
 
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