iowa on Sunday, January 11

[Ihawkd9times]

Originally posted by MiccoMacey:

Originally posted by Ihawkd9times: LOL, well I guess thats why they wrestle the matches. Odd meet.

Thanks for taking this in good sport, Ihawkd9times. Just having a little fun.

It was odd, but expected. Outside of the complete lack of fire or desire by the OSU wrestlers (which probably still had little bearing on the overall outcome), it went pretty much as most expected.

The two bigger upsets was Sorensen and Boyd. Although, and I'll get lambasted over here for saying this, Kindig is not a sure-fire National finalist this year regardless of what he did last year. I still say he was a benefactor of having those seeded above him fall, more so than anything he accomplished (other than keep winning against whomever was in front of him when all around him others fell...he gets credit for that). He'll beat Houdashelt with one of the best throws ever, then turn around and lay this egg (no disrespect to Sorensen). He's going to need to be more consistent than this to reach his goals.

And I have no earthly idea why Brooks sabotaged his match. It was won easily had he not tried to throw Boyd. As you stated, surely he'll learn from this.

I agree about Kindig as well. His finals appearance spoke more to getting hot in a really weak weight. Any weight that ranks a Dardanes #1 has some issues.

Im ok with Brooks loss. Really he will get more out of that than a win. His eyes just got too big and wanted to put Boyd down and it backfired. Give Boyd credit for coming out on top on those 50/50 type deals. When I was thinking putting Boyd on his back on my predictions, its was on a tilt, not trying to launch him to his back from his feet. Sammy shouldnt have tried it but thats what we like about this kid. We have watched Lofthouse for too long. IMO had the meet not already been decided, Sammy prolly doesnt get that cute trying to make a statment. Young PUP learning what to do with his arsenal.

Micco, keep on eye out on Brooks, he is really special even thogh it didnt really show on Sunday. I do believe behind Dean and Dechow, he is as good as any other 184 guy and he gave Dechow too much respect and should have won that midlands matchup.

Hey how has Brewer looked this season? I cant wait till he and Clark meet up. That could be some fireworks with their styles.

 

[cranberryadams]

Hey, Mic.

I see Cody Brewer hasn't wrestled in about a month. Do you know anything?

Below average team, now bad, without him.

 

[hawkssox1]

Originally posted by Gooseeman:

Dominate win by iowa, but since I have no dog in the fight, thought this should be brought back up

Why don't you wait until your mighty clones wrestle OSU!!

 

[cachap5327]

Well, that was ugly. My wife was under the weather, so we did not make the drive to Stillwater, but we did watch on TV. Not having to spend 4 hours in the car made it a little better, I guess. Even though it was ugly, there were a few hopeful signs. And a few that leave me shaking my head.

125 - one of the head scratchers. Eddie had really impressed me for the most part this season. This was not one of those times.

133 - Harding was outclassed, but he never quit. He kept fighting to the very end and that is what I like to see, win or lose. I don't know what his upside is, and some around here think this will be his only season to wrestle, but I think, with more experience, he will beat a lot of people.

141 - Heil was clearly the better wrestler, for one period. He could not escape in the second, and was dead on his feet (and back) in the third.

149 - I'm gonna have to agree with Micco on Kindig. Josh had the benefit of a perfect storm at his weight last year to make the finals. The odds of that happening again are remote at best. He does have enough talent to beat most of the competition at his weight, but also has the ability to lose to anyone in the top 20. Consistency has always been a problem with him. Hopefully he can turn it on in March.

157 - As with Heil, Collica was the better wrestler for one period. Skillwise, I think he is as good as any and better than most. Strength and conditioning are his weaknesses.

165 - Even Alex seemed to mail this one in. Maybe he was disappointed that Iowa threw a backup at him. At least that backup had some fire. I know bonus points were pointless in the dual outcome at that point, but I would like to see Alex (or any of our guys for that matter) have a pound you into the mat, take no prisoners attitude.

174 - I do not have any idea what is going on with Rogers. It looked like he gave up after the first takedown. One of the most highly sought after recruits in recent history and it looks like he has not progressed at all.

184 - Nolan produced the only real bright spot of the afternoon. Great motor, won't quit and has the ability to beat a lot of people.

197 - I need to see more of Bean. He had a tough draw for his first real start.

285 - I missed most of this, but was not impressed with what I did see. I wish we could inject Marsden with a little Steve Mocco.

All in all, I do not think we are as bad as we looked. As others have pointed out, Iowa blasted us last year and we finished ahead of them in March. I do not see that happening this year. We do not have 4 potential finalists this year unless some very strange and bizarre things happen. Four all Americans may be more realistic.

Sunday's lack of effort was certainly no way to build attendance at the duals. I really don't see why any first time attendees would want to come back. Even the coaching staff seemed disinterested and I fully expected to see one or more of them looking at their cell phones when the camera went their way.

I wish I had some answers. I'm not ready to write Coach Smith off just yet and I cannot think of anyone out there who would be a decent replacement, but something needs to change. Maybe the light will come on for some of these guys and we will be a contender (for third) in March. I certainly hope we do not have to suffer through anything like Sunday ever again.

 

[bcowboy]

Geez... it was bad, but we shouldn't be on suicide watch. We'll get back to competing for championships.

 

[osu2082]

Originally posted by bcowboy:
Geez... it was bad, but we shouldn't be on suicide watch. We'll get back to competing for championships.

You are probably right but we have said that a few times over the past eight years. With what PSU is redshirting it looks like it will be another few years before that hope can be a reality. With how we have recruited and the expectations is a decade long drought acceptable? I'm not for drastic decisions but changes need to be evaluated and in some areas likely made.

 

[jon_osu]

Sunday, January 11

just a few short comments about the dual against the hawkeyes...

125: disappointed
133: encouraged
141: encouraged
149: disappointed
157: somewhat encouraged
165: disappointed
174: bewildered
184: elated
197: encouraged
hwt: somewhat disappointed


i am tired of reading about the iowa 184 guy that made a mistake and should have beaten Nolan. Nolan is my kind of wrestler. 110% and shows no fear. great single leg in the first, just could not finish it. no quit in Boyd. reminds me of 'Cowboy' of some years back. i would pick Nolan for my team every day.



This post was edited on 1/13 12:09 AM by jon_osu

 

[MiccoMacey]

Originally posted by bcowboy:
Geez... it was bad, but we shouldn't be on suicide watch. We'll get back to competing for championships.

When?

What's your timetable for the next national championship?

2013 - 2nd
2012 - 6th
2011 - 4th
2010 - 6th
2009 - 17th (I believe...not top ten for sure)
2008 - 5th
2007 - 5th

Last year was the best shot OSU had for awhile. Outside of Dieringer, name me your "for sure" All-American from this squad. Kindig? Marsden? After those, the list gets real iffy.

I get a down year...it happens. But be realistic. Take off your orange glasses. If this squad wrestled for OU, when do you look at this roster and say, "We're in the hunt for sure now"? Even with the coaches OSU has, can you see this squad being anything but a top ten team right now?

BTW, this is not a shot at the team, or the coaches, or their heart, or their willingness. I appreciate all their hard work and effort, the daily grind, the discipline of weight cutting. But I'm looking for "sure-fire" All-Americans, and I see few.

 

[Azchief32]

2016 or 2017, I can see OSU right in the thick of it. Got some good young guys on the roster and coming in.

 

[osu2082]

Originally posted by Azchief32:
2016 or 2017, I can see OSU right in the thick of it. Got some good young guys on the roster and coming in.

I do think we will be much better then but we have good young guys coming in over the last 8 years as well. My question are we getting the right guys and are we developing once they get here. This questions especially pertains to our upper weights.

 

[Harleycowboy]

We had on paper a very good recruiting class. But to be honest the results for our freshmen has been disappointing and extremely inconsistent. Blees, Harding, Rogers, Marsteller and the 97 from Kansas have not done as well as I had hoped. I know that it is early but I am not excited by their results in opens so far. I remember the super class of Perry, Rosholt, Morrison, Bailey, White and Benefield underperformed except for Perry. I thought that class with good recruiting afterwards would lead to a championship. Obviously it didn't. This next year we need a very good recruiting class. This years class looks good on paper(Smith, Brock, Lelwellen, Moran Marsden and the Mich. kid) but who knows. Oberebo mentioned Colbray as a great recruit and I agree. Hall would be a great recruit also. Tognetti at one time seemed to indicate we were looking good for Hall. Minnesota is indicating that they lead. Hall and Colbray by themselves would be a fantastic class. Our current freshman need to start developing.

 

[proud2bpokes]

I believe that at one time OSU did lead for Mark Hall. Since then his good friend, Bo Stevenson, signed with Minn. I am sure OSU and other programs are still in the running but I can see Minn. being the favorite. Colbray is an Oregon kid who is the son of a former Oregon St wrestler. They would have to be considered the favorite. I am just putting this out there so you are not overly disappointed if either or both of those kids make decisions that would make a whole lot of sense. Hopefully they will agree that OSU makes sense too.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Originally posted by osu2082: I do think we will be much better then but we have good young guys coming in over the last 8 years as well. My question are we getting the right guys and are we developing once they get here. This questions especially pertains to our upper weights.

Since you asked...

Here are all the All-Americans for OSU by weight since 2007:

125
None

133
Coleman Scott - 2nd - 2007
Coleman Scott - 1st - 2008
Jordan Oliver - 4th - 2010
Jordan Oliver - 1st - 2011
Jordan Oliver - 2nd - 2012
Jonathon Morrison - 5th - 2013

141
Nathan Morgan - 4th - 2007
Nathan Morgan - 4th - 2008

149
Jamal Parks - 5th - 2011
Jordan Oliver- 1st 2013
Josh Kindig - 2nd - 2014

157
Alex Dieringer - 3rd - 2013
Alex Dieringer - 1st - 2014

165
Johny Hendricks - 2nd - 2007
Tyler Caldwell - 3rd - 2013
Tyler Caldwell - 2nd - 2014

174
Brandon Mason - 5th - 2007
Chris Perry - 3rd - 2012
Chris Perry - 1st - 2013
Chris Perry - 1st - 2014

184
Jack Jensen - 7th - 2008
Clayton Foster - 6th - 2010

197
Alan Gelogaev - 7th - 2010
Clayton Foster - 2nd - 2011
Cale Byers - 3rd - 2012
Blake Rosholt - 8th - 2013

HWT
Jarod Rosholt - 4th - 2008
Jarod Rosholt - 3rd - 2009
Jarod Rosholt - 2nd - 2010
Alan Gelogaev - 3rd - 2013
Austin Marsden - 8th - 2014


Feel free to make whatever you want out of this. Also, if I missed one please let me know so I can add them to this list.

 

[osu2082]

Micco thanks for the info! It really seems are issues have just been at 184 and 197 where we have had to rely on transfers and lower rated recruits to hopefully exceed expectations.

We have been solid in bringing in very good HW's although none have been able to break through and win it when a few where expected to.

I still see recruitment and development of our upper weights (174 to HW) as a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Originally posted by osu2082:

Micco thanks for the info! It really seems are issues have just been at 184 and 197 where we have had to rely on transfers and lower rated recruits to hopefully exceed expectations.

We have been solid in bringing in very good HW's although none have been able to break through and win it when a few where expected to.

I still see recruitment and development of our upper weights (174 to HW) as a problem that needs to be addressed.

We can go one step farther and look at each weight and say "In eight years, we've had 'X' All-Americans at this weight.'

125 - Mindboggling that we haven't had a single All-American at this weight since Coleman Scott in 2006.
133 - Six out of eight years OSU has had an All-American at this weight. Pretty solid, and I think OSU's best weight.
141 - One guy was All-American two years in a row. Nothing other than that.
149 - Three different guys were All-American, and one has a chance to extend that streak.
157 - See 141.
165 - Three in eight years. By two different guys. Not dominating by any means
174 - Four in eight years, largely due to Chris Perry's 3x All-American status. Still, I'd call this weight a success.
184 - One 7th place, and one 6th place. Nothing in four years straight. Hopefully Nolan can end this streak.
197 - All-American status four years in a row until last year. I'd call this a success.
HWT - Five times reached All-American, with a possible sixth this year. Again, a successful weight.

Judge for yourself.

I'd also add this is just the All-Americans. Not stating that a wrestler can't be a successful part of a team unless he is an All-American.

 

[cachap5327]

Thanks for the All-American analysis, Micco. I do not like being reminded about 2009, though. What a dismal year that was! 4th in the Big 12 and 16th at NCAAs with only one AA. This also points out one of the big problems we are having - 31 AAs in 8 years. That is an average of just under 4 per year. Blame it on recruiting, retention, development or whatever, but that is a lousy average. We were competitive last year with just 5 AAs, but that is only because 4 of them were finalists. I think it will take at least 7 or 8 per year to be really competitive for the top spot. Hopefully we will have that next year.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Originally posted by cachap5327:
Thanks for the All-American analysis, Micco. I do not like being reminded about 2009, though. What a dismal year that was! 4th in the Big 12 and 16th at NCAAs with only one AA. This also points out one of the big problems we are having - 31 AAs in 8 years. That is an average of just under 4 per year. Blame it on recruiting, retention, development or whatever, but that is a lousy average. We were competitive last year with just 5 AAs, but that is only because 4 of them were finalists. I think it will take at least 7 or 8 per year to be really competitive for the top spot. Hopefully we will have that next year.

So, we'll go year by year:

2007
Coleman Scott - 2nd - 133
Nathan Morgan - 4th - 141
Johny Hendricks - 2nd - 165
Brandon Mason - 5th - 174

2008
Coleman Scott - 1st - 133
Nathan Morgan - 4th - 141
Jack Jensen - 7th - 184
Jarod Rosholt - 4th - 285

2009
Jarod Rosholt - 3rd - 285

2010
Jordan Oliver - 4th - 133
Clayton Foster - 6th - 184
Alan Gelogaev - 7th - 197
Jarod Rosholt - 2nd - 285

2011
Jordan Oliver - 1st - 133
Jamal Parks - 5th - 149
Clayton Foster - 2nd - 197

2012
Jordan Oliver - 2nd - 133
Chris Perry- 3rd - 174
Cale Byers - 3rd - 197

2013
Jon Morrison - 5th - 133
Jordan Oliver - 1st - 149
Alex Dieringer - 3rd - 157
Tyler Caldwell - 3rd - 165
Chris Perry - 1st - 174
Blake Rosholt - 8th - 197
Alan Gelogaev - 3rd - 285

2014
Josh Kindig - 2nd - 149
Alex Dieringer - 1st - 157
Tyler Caldwell - 2nd - 165
Chris Perry - 1st - 174
Austin Marsden - 8th - 285


Again, if I missed one please inform me so I can add it to the list.

Next, we go alphabetical...

 

[bcowboy]

Originally posted by MiccoMacey:

Originally posted by bcowboy:
Geez... it was bad, but we shouldn't be on suicide watch. We'll get back to competing for championships.

When?

What's your timetable for the next national championship?

2013 - 2nd
2012 - 6th
2011 - 4th
2010 - 6th
2009 - 17th (I believe...not top ten for sure)
2008 - 5th
2007 - 5th

Last year was the best shot OSU had for awhile. Outside of Dieringer, name me your "for sure" All-American from this squad. Kindig? Marsden? After those, the list gets real iffy.

I get a down year...it happens. But be realistic. Take off your orange glasses. If this squad wrestled for OU, when do you look at this roster and say, "We're in the hunt for sure now"? Even with the coaches OSU has, can you see this squad being anything but a top ten team right now?

BTW, this is not a shot at the team, or the coaches, or their heart, or their willingness. I appreciate all their hard work and effort, the daily grind, the discipline of weight cutting. But I'm looking for "sure-fire" All-Americans, and I see few.

I don't know Mr. OU fireman, but I'm absolutely sure Smith will get us there. Maybe just orange optimism.

 

[MiccoMacey]

bcowboy,

I, too, have faith in John Smith. Even if I didnt, who would be a better replacement for him? I can't think of anyone who could do a better job.

But there's no denying OSU wrestling is down right now. The results I posted prove it. I'm not the only one who believes so, if you read all (or any) of these threads.

Feel free to answer any of the questions I asked previously.

 

[1stplacehawk]

Elite coaches and programs go hand in hand. The current programs that can be counted on to contend for a title almost every year probably have the 4 best coaches in the business (Throw in Cornell as #5 if you want). OSU-Smith, Iowa-Brands, PSU-Sanderson, Minn-J Rob. I don't think there is anyone out there that has the clout or stature of the 4 names mentioned above. Short of maybe getting Jordan Burroughs I don't think there is anyone you could bring in and not have your program take a significant step back. Look at Iowa State after Sanderson left...

 

[Harleycowboy]

I don't think we could get a coach as good as Coach Smith. However we have 3 assistant coaches with none weighing more than 170. Who actually wrestles with our heavier weight? I do know we have Chris Perry as some kind of coach who at least wrestled 74. Do we have enough post graduate wrestlers in the room? Maybe we use to have more of these guys in the room.

 

[Harleycowboy]

One more thing to say is I hate it when we have wrestlers gas in the 3rd period or even the second. Some of our wrestlers have given us a reputation of stalling, wrestling on the edges and not being in good shape. However we have had our share of wrestler who were destroyers who dominated their opponents. We only have 1 of those wrestlers now which is sad. These are the wrestlers that bring fans to the meets. We should never have only 1 of these wrestlers. In our championship years we had Scott, Morgan, Esposito, Hendricks, Pendleton, Mocco, 2 of the Rosholts and Thompson. We have only a few wrestlers that I enjoy watching them wrestle. Again, the 2012 was really our downfall with Rogers, Crutchmer's Shaffer and Klimara. Klimara looks like the best chance to all American but he has not shown me he will. They seem to have the ability but something is missing. A whole class and 3 years in the program and I don't see an all American this year. Against Iowa Rogers got destroyed. Did he even quit in that match?

 

[bcowboy]

Originally posted by MiccoMacey:
bcowboy,

I, too, have faith in John Smith. Even if I didnt, who would be a better replacement for him? I can't think of anyone who could do a better job.

But there's no denying OSU wrestling is down right now. The results I posted prove it. I'm not the only one who believes so, if you read all (or any) of these threads.

Feel free to answer any of the questions I asked previously.

I can't quite get a take on your tone, so.. I can't tell if your a little pissed at my post. I'm not disagreeing with you and nor are several former wrestlers. I do think we are very young, but we will get better this year. How much, I don't know. I posted a long time ago that the landscape of wrestling has shifted away from this part of the Country. It seems that our junior high and high school crops are getting a little better, but the heart land and the northeast are producing so much talent that the Big 10 and east coast schools have such a logistical advantage in recruiting. This advantage has impacted depth in the room and to me, is the most troubling. One thing I'm certain of is... Coach Smith is a treasure for us. He is what is keeping this engine running.

 

[MiccoMacey]

bcowboy,

I'm absolutely not mad at your post. All posters outside of Tognetti and Ober should read all my comments toward them with nothing but the best intentions and good will. Of the other two I just mentioned...all gloves are off at all times.

But my question remains the same... Whom do you see as "All-American" this year outside of Alex, Josh, and Austin? My dark horse would be Eddie, followed by even darker horse Dean.

 

[april racer]

I will agree that there doesn't look like there are many AAs this year. The three you mentioned should get there and I think EK and NB will make it there. I have hopes for DH and AC. As far as the future I see this team being near the top if not the top the next couple years, especially next year. Th only loss will be Kindig who I hope will be replaced by Collica, Not sure how 57,65, and 74 will shake out. I would think that AD would move up to a cleared out 74, have CM or CR go 65 and possibly one of them can make it down to 57. SO I feel really good about a roster next year of:
Klimara
Harding
Heil
Collica
RB, CM, or CR
CM or CR
AD
Boyd
PW, AS, or LB
Marsden

 

[mike tognetti]

Now what did you say about me, Little Oberebo. After putting up with you and your dad at Nationals last year, keeping you out of trouble, keeping your spirits up after OU never showed up to Nationals. First day at Nationals Micco was wearing a OU shirt, by afternoon he had it inside out and wearing my OSU hat! That's how I remember it.

 

[bcowboy]

Originally posted by MiccoMacey:
bcowboy,

I'm absolutely not mad at your post. All posters outside of Tognetti and Ober should read all my comments toward them with nothing but the best intentions and good will. Of the other two I just mentioned...all gloves are off at all times.

But my question remains the same... Whom do you see as "All-American" this year outside of Alex, Josh, and Austin? My dark horse would be Eddie, followed by even darker horse Dean.

My guess would be Nolan Boyd. If he keeps wrestling through the remainder of the season, like the front half, I can see him being an AA. My dark horse would be at 141. I know that a tall order for a freshman, but he has real talent. The start have to start alignment, but I really think he has the ability to do it. Now the question is.. Does he have the metal side.

I do have a question and I'm willing to bet you've answered this on the board, but being in one of my most admired professions and an 11B hero... Why the dark side, given your Dad's sound reasoning and loyal allegiance to the good guys.

 

[mike tognetti]

His dad accidentally dropped him on his head right after birth. He hit the cement so hard it knocked all the hair off his head. Never been right since then.

 

[bcowboy]

maybe we should drop him again.

 

[mike tognetti]

Every girlfriend he has had dropped him, except his wife. Poor women, there got to be something wrong with her to stay with him. She could of done a lot better, maybe she will read my post and decide to move on just like in the episode of Seinfeld.

 

[Harleycowboy]

Speaking of Iowa, there is a thread on their forum where some fool is trying to make Coach Smith's press conference after the dual insulting to Iowa and therefore Coach Smith has dropped in their estimation. This is ridiculous and 80% of the Iowa posters on that thread indicated that but 20% think that Coach Smith insulted them. After stomping us in the ground a few of them are not satisfied. Again I stress most of their fans on that form disagreed with this person because this person must be a paranoid schizophrenic or something to interpret that press conference the way he did. Tonganetti is battling some on that thread. Personally we got beat so bad I really got nothing in the Iowa vs Oklahoma State argument. Also the guy thought he was a bad coach for saying the obvious that we are not in the Championship picture.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Originally posted by bcowboy:

I do have a question and I'm willing to bet you've answered this on the board, but being in one of my most admired professions and an 11B hero... Why the dark side, given your Dad's sound reasoning and loyal allegiance to the good guys.

I actually started out as 11B, but quickly moved to 11C...High Angle Hell!!!

My first ever best friend got me hooked on OU at the age of four. His family followed OU, and they were on TV and OSU wasn't, so I just started rooting for the team I saw the most.

Once I got to OSU, I decided that I couldn't just shuck 26 years of allegiance so I've stuck with OU being my favorite team.

But OSU, especially OSU wrestling, will always have a hallowed spot with me.

And yes, I was dropped as a baby. Although "dropped" is probably not the correct word. Abandoned. discarded, left for wolves in favor of my younger brother okstatefan...probably more apt.

 

[okstatefan]

Originally posted by bcowboy:

I do have a question and I'm willing to bet you've answered this on the board, but being in one of my most admired professions and an 11B hero... Why the dark side, given your Dad's sound reasoning and loyal allegiance to the good guys.




I actually started out as 11B, but quickly moved to 11C...High Angle Hell!!!

My first ever best friend got me hooked on OU at the age of four. His family followed OU, and they were on TV and OSU wasn't, so I just started rooting for the team I saw the most.

Once I got to OSU, I decided that I couldn't just shuck 26 years of allegiance so I've stuck with OU being my favorite team.

But OSU, especially OSU wrestling, will always have a hallowed spot with me.

And yes, I was dropped as a baby. Although "dropped" is probably not the correct word. Abandoned. discarded, left for wolves in favor of my younger brother okstatefan...probably more apt.


You forgot.......better looking, smarter, better firefighter, much lighter, and more humble younger brother, okstatefan.

 

[leroyjethrogibbs]

who's on first ?

too many oberebo[/I] folks on here. i can not keep up. help. please identify.











This post was edited on 1/21 6:07 AM by leroyjethrogibbs

 

[okstatefan]

Re: who's on first ?

You got nothing better to do in Southwest OK than post photos of our family?........Well actually we aren't sure if Micco is really part of our family, but for arguments sake we will include him.

The guy in the first photo looks vaguely familiar....
That second photo was my first year of wrestling at the Shawnee YMCA circa 1975(?)
Third photo was a few years ago at a Bedlam dual in Norman.
Dude in the last photo?.........never heard of her

 

[mike tognetti]

Re: who's on first ?

The last guy in the picture I thought was the clown you hired! You can tell by the OU hat he has on.

This post was edited on 1/21 8:07 PM by mike tognetti