I want to gnash my teeth too

[CowboyJD]

Name a single action taken by the administration that benefits Russias administration.

Notifying them before bombing the Syrian airfield.

Note: I'm just meeting your challenge....not opining that there definitely is or was collusion between Trump admin and Russia.

I just think taking the extreme position that nothing Trump has done has benefited the Russian administration is as equally silly as taking the extreme position that there was/is definitely collusion going on.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Also merely a coincidence that Comey just asked for more money for the Russian investigation?

The email rationale from last summer's conduct is a clumsy ruse. Anyone that can't see that is silly imo.

GD, if he's not guilty why does he act like it so much?

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Good point Louise.

 

[Been Jammin]

Are you interested in these things for every president?

One more point on this. As you know, all prior presidents (for over 3 decades) have released their tax returns to show that there are no conflicts of interest and that they don't have anything to hide. So, whether or not I paid attention to prior presidents' tax returns doesn't really matter. The interest in Trump's tax returns is (partially? primarily?) driven by his refusal to be transparent. It suggests that he is hiding something. I think he is definitely hiding something. I wouldn't be shocked if what he is hiding is the fact that he isn't close to as wealthy as he pretends to be (borrows from Peter to pay Paul so that he can continue his extravagant lifestyle). But, it could also be something more nefarious.

 

[OSUGD]

@OSUGD so subpoenaes are flying out of a Virginia U.S. Atty's office... FBI can't issue subpoenas, it takes a U.S. Atty and grand jury to do that absent a filed case? (Right?) Does this suggest that there's an FBI investigation or would a u.s. atty do this on their own? Does this suggest there really is a grand jury? If it's to that point, does that suggest the FBI has gone home and the U.S. Atty is taking it from here?

You're the closest we have to an "expert" on this stuff. I know nothing about Federal Crim Procedure/FBI and U.S. Atty interaction, etc.

Flynn will fold and roll quicker than your hat hits the floor, Harry.

 

[CowboyJD]

How does it slow down? Do light bulb sales slow when the CEO of ge gets fired? This slows nothing unless a huge trump supporter is put in charge and a coverup ensues. Is that what we are assuming?

I don't think you're particularly in touch with the political reality of how this works. Law enforcement investigations are different than light bulb sales. There is a huge range of options and discretion between proceeding exactly as Comey was and a "coverup" that could result in the investigation slowing.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Sorry -- you're not Jd, you're Gd. Gets confusing....

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

@OSUJD so subpoenaes are flying out of a Virginia U.S. Atty's office... FBI can't issue subpoenas, it takes a U.S. Atty and grand jury to do that absent a filed case? (Right?) Does this suggest that there's an FBI investigation or would a u.s. atty do this on their own? Does this suggest there really is a grand jury? If it's to that point, does that suggest the FBI has gone home and the U.S. Atty is taking it from here?

You're the closest we have to an "expert" on this stuff. I know nothing about Federal Crim Procedure/FBI and U.S. Atty interaction, etc.

Flynn will fold and roll quicker than your hat hits the floor, Harry.

@CowboyJD I summoned the wrong guy in this post. You have any input on how this works? The alphabet soup and agency interaction is confusing to a non-LE, laylawyer.

 

[CowboyJD]

@OSUGD so subpoenaes are flying out of a Virginia U.S. Atty's office... FBI can't issue subpoenas, it takes a U.S. Atty and grand jury to do that absent a filed case? (Right?) Does this suggest that there's an FBI investigation or would a u.s. atty do this on their own? Does this suggest there really is a grand jury? If it's to that point, does that suggest the FBI has gone home and the U.S. Atty is taking it from here?

You're the closest we have to an "expert" on this stuff. I know nothing about Federal Crim Procedure/FBI and U.S. Atty interaction, etc.

Flynn will fold and roll quicker than your hat hits the floor, Harry.

Re: Issuance of subpoenas. Could be as a result of the FBI Investigation, but a U.S. Attorney could do it on their own as well. DOJ has it's own investigation units separate from the FBI that they can use. Sometimes they cooperate in investigations, sometimes they run concurrent investigations and communicate about them, sometimes there is conflict between the DOJ and FBI (Comey and Lynch).

Re:Grand jury. There is a Grand Jury, but it's a "sitting one" that isn't necessarily convened for this sole purpose. The sitting Grand Jury can serve as a charging body, and investigative body (by issuing subpoenas requested by the USAtty).

Re: FBI gone home and US Atty taking over. No I don't think this news indicates that one way or the other.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Re: Issuance of subpoenas. Could be as a result of the FBI Investigation, but a U.S. Attorney could do it on their own as well. DOJ has it's own investigation units separate from the FBI that they can use. Sometimes they cooperate in investigations, sometimes they run concurrent investigations and communicate about them, sometimes there is conflict between the DOJ and FBI (Comey and Lynch).

Re:Grand jury. There is a Grand Jury, but it's a "sitting one" that isn't necessarily convened for this sole purpose. The sitting Grand Jury can serve as a charging body, and investigative body (by issuing subpoenas requested by the USAtty).

Re: FBI gone home and US Atty taking over. No I don't think this news indicates that one way or the other.

The U.S. attorney and FBI can each issue subpoenas without a grand jury or court proceeding? Just issue one in their own name or what?

 

[HighStickHarry]

I don't think you're particularly in touch with the political reality of how this works. Law enforcement investigations are different than light bulb sales. There is a huge range of options and discretion between proceeding exactly as Comey was and a "coverup" that could result in the investigation slowing.

So it slows, but finishes completely eventually. None of us believe any Russia details will go unstudied, right?

 

[HighStickHarry]

@OSUGD so subpoenaes are flying out of a Virginia U.S. Atty's office... FBI can't issue subpoenas, it takes a U.S. Atty and grand jury to do that absent a filed case? (Right?) Does this suggest that there's an FBI investigation or would a u.s. atty do this on their own? Does this suggest there really is a grand jury? If it's to that point, does that suggest the FBI has gone home and the U.S. Atty is taking it from here?

You're the closest we have to an "expert" on this stuff. I know nothing about Federal Crim Procedure/FBI and U.S. Atty interaction, etc.

Flynn will fold and roll quicker than your hat hits the floor, Harry.

I hope you are right. We have reached the point of trump is impeached or all libs will be labeled as hysterical nothing burgers. That will be quite a stretch for them.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

I hope you are right. We have reached the point of trump is impeached or all libs will be labeled as hysterical nothing burgers. That will be quite a stretch for them.

You have to be kidding. I can remember when the birth certidicate was the BIGGEST SCANDAL EVER. Solyndra? Benghazi? Obama farted and the republicans were drawing up articles of impeachment.

Man, some people (conservstives mostly it seems) can dish it out but can't take it at all. We're still not touching the level of constant hysteria you people had with Obama.

 

[HighStickHarry]

solyndra and Benghazi were huge scandals.

 

[CowboyJD]

So it slows, but finishes completely eventually. None of us believe any Russia details will go unstudied, right?

I wouldn't go that far.....or make any type of prediction...particularly without knowing who the next Director is.

I could see a politically minded Director asking what evidence has been discovered to date, what leads have been followed, and what leads are still out there and deciding that the investigative value of those leads in his opinion (which could be subject to political pressure he may have given into) is negligible and call it a day.

WHO is chosen as the next FBI Director and his credibility and resistance to political pressure from both sides is critical in my opinion. It will take a strong, principled Director to not been affected by political pressure regarding investigative decisions,

My agency has a history of Directors getting fired for investigating the Governor (David Hall) that appointed them. We went through two in short succession. Ultimately a somewhat independent Commission was established to appoint the Director. That gives us some political insulation when it comes to investigative decisions. Even now, we receive political pressure and threats directed at trying to influence our investigative decisions.

 

[CowboyJD]

The U.S. attorney and FBI can each issue subpoenas without a grand jury or court proceeding? Just issue one in their own name or what?

I'm not sure exactly what direct subpoena powers they have. That would be defined by statute. I know that my agency doesn't have direct subpoena powers and we routinely go through the AG's office going to the sitting multi-county Grand Jury for subpoenas.

My bet, though it's only an educated guess, is that the FBI and AG have a similar system.

 

[Been Jammin]

So it slows, but finishes completely eventually. None of us believe any Russia details will go unstudied, right?

Way too soon to tell. Any number of things could happen that could move the investigation down on the priority list. What if we go to war with NK? What if an attack similar to 911 happens in this country? What if we find out that Kushner is an Israeli spy? The more time that passes between now and the conclusion of the Russia investigation, the more likely it is that it is pushed to the back burner. Slowing the investigation, at the very least, improves the chances that those who care, lose interest.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Way too soon to tell. Any number of things could happen that could move the investigation down on the priority list. What if we go to war with NK? What if an attack similar to 911 happens in this country? What if we find out that Kushner is an Israeli spy? The more time that passes between now and the conclusion of the Russia investigation, the more likely it is that it is pushed to the back burner. Slowing the investigation, at the very least, improves the chances that those who care, lose interest.

Lose interest? Entire media corporations have staked their life on it. If it's not bigger than watergate Chris Todd should cut off one of his own fingers as punishment. It's the entire democrat narrative. Lose interest?

 

[Been Jammin]

Lose interest? Entire media corporations have staked their life on it. If it's not bigger than watergate Chris Todd should cut off one of his own fingers as punishment. It's the entire democrat narrative. Lose interest?

Yeah. Like get distracted by something juicier. Like the fictitious examples I listed in my prior post.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Yeah. Like get distracted by something juicier. Like the fictitious examples I listed in my prior post.

Very anti Semitic on the kushner one.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Notifying them before bombing the Syrian airfield.

Note: I'm just meeting your challenge....not opining that there definitely is or was collusion between Trump admin and Russia.

I just think taking the extreme position that nothing Trump has done has benefited the Russian administration is as equally silly as taking the extreme position that there was/is definitely collusion going on.

So nothing any sitting president wouldn't' even done. I'm not pushing any Russian position never have.

Let me know when he starts lifting sanctions or they find any evidence.

 

[CowboyJD]

So nothing any sitting president wouldn't' even done. I'm not pushing any Russian position never have.

Let me know when he starts lifting sanctions or they find any evidence.

You made a challenge.

I met the challenge.

Now you're changing the challenge.

I don't know that any sitting president would have informed Russia before bombing Syria under the circumstances Trump faced. You may be right in that opinion. You might not.

You certainly appear to be pushing a "there was no collusion between Trump admin and Russia" position to me. I apologize if I misunderstood your complete neutrality on the question.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

So nothing any sitting president wouldn't' even done. I'm not pushing any Russian position never have.

Let me know when he starts lifting sanctions or they find any evidence.

Biff would have to be a mouth breathing dolt to lift sanctions right now. There's story after story, including firing three people that were investigating him.

Might as well say, "Wake me up if he confesses."

 

[Alpha Poke]

Given how hated he is and by whom, there is zero chance that he's done anything or they would've played a real card instead of continually bluffing.

 

[TPOKE]

Has any evidence of a Trump/Russian collusion be produced yet?

Two hyperpartisan witnesses, Clapper and Yates, both testified that they have seen no evidence of collusion.

No evidence, but the left wants a special prosecutor. I could understand an investigative committee, but prosecutor? Have charges been filed?

 

[imprimis]

Sure they want a special prosecutor. When everything they have tried for months has failed asking for a special prosecutor is the next thing in line. Then something else.

 

[CowboyJD]

Given how hated he is and by whom, there is zero chance that he's done anything or they would've played a real card instead of continually bluffing.

But you're not pushing any Russian position.....

Right?

 

[Alpha Poke]

I'm pushing logic.

The intelligence community leaks like a sieve.

 

[CowboyJD]

I'm pushing logic.

The intelligence community leaks like a sieve.

Definitely not pushing a "there is nothing to Russian collusion claims" position.

Crystal clear.

 

[Alpha Poke]

I clarified. You really want to argue about this issue where there isn't one.

Given that none of the hactivists or our govt have been able to produce anything what is there for me to push? Nothing, that's exactly what I said.

Do you honestly think that theres anything that isn't known about Trump? Knowing what's collected and by whom and what was authorized specifically for,Trump.

What you're basically saying is Trump is a super villain, thwarting the NSA, CIA, FBI and whatever else's best efforts. As a target.

 

[CowboyJD]

I clarified. You really want to argue about this issue where there isn't one.

Given that none of the hactivists or our govt have been able to produce anything what is there for me to push? Nothing, that's exactly what I said.

Do you honestly think that theres anything that isn't known about Trump? Knowing what's collected and by whom and what was authorized specifically for,Trump.

What you're basically saying is Trump is a super villain, thwarting the NSA, CIA, FBI and whatever else's best efforts. As a target.

No, that is not what I am saying AT ALL.

But keep building that really, really big strawman you're working on.

 

[Alpha Poke]

What did I say that wasn't true?

 

[HighStickHarry]

Ermagod this thread needs a pick me up.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Jimmybob when reaching this point in the thread.

 

[CowboyJD]

What did I say that wasn't true?

Here you go.

I'm not pushing any Russian position never have.

Yeah you are. You are pushing a Russian position.

What you're basically saying is Trump is a super villain, thwarting the NSA, CIA, FBI and whatever else's best efforts. As a target.

I've said no such thing or anything close to it. I haven't opined as to the validity, accuracy, or logical soundness of the Russian position that you are pushing in any manner. I have merely responded to your statement that you aren't pushing a Russian position and never have.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Here's my position.

What are the trying to get us to look away from?

The Trump/Russia stuff hasn't produced any substance. Zero.

The dicks they keep sticking mics in front of that have privy to the evidence all say the exact same thing "While there isn't any evidence to connect Trump to Russia, I "feel" very strongly there is a connection."

All that makes me think is they're probably trying to slide one by us somewhere else. The magicians trick.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Given how hated he is and by whom, there is zero chance that he's done anything or they would've played a real card instead of continually bluffing.

You're analyzing the accuser. Thats fine, but you're ignoring a ton of evidence.

Here's my position.

What are the trying to get us to look away from?

The Trump/Russia stuff hasn't produced any substance. Zero.

The dicks they keep sticking mics in front of that have privy to the evidence all say the exact same thing "While there isn't any evidence to connect Trump to Russia, I "feel" very strongly there is a connection."

All that makes me think is they're probably trying to slide one by us somewhere else. The magicians trick.

Biff can make it all go away in about 5 seconds. Quit firing everyone that's investigating it. Produce tax returns. Demand a special counsel to clear him. If he's innocent then he'll be exonerated. Easy peasy. He can't simultaneously say he did nothing wrong AND impede any inquiry.

He acts so guilty that he's making it worse. Hell anyone that didnt think there was substance to russian conflicts of interest would be persuaded by his cover-up.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Jimmybob when reaching this point in the thread.

This hurts to say, but... post of the week.

 

[imprimis]

Here's my position.

What are the trying to get us to look away from?

The Trump/Russia stuff hasn't produced any substance. Zero.

The dicks they keep sticking mics in front of that have privy to the evidence all say the exact same thing "While there isn't any evidence to connect Trump to Russia, I "feel" very strongly there is a connection."

All that makes me think is they're probably trying to slide one by us somewhere else. The magicians trick.

The easiest way to avoid being in your own quagmire is to continuously blame the other side. There are more provable democrat/Russia connections than Trump/Russia.

 

[CowboyJD]

The easiest way to avoid being in your own quagmire is to continuously blame the other side. There are more provable democrat/Russia connections than Trump/Russia.

You do realize you just avoided your own quagmire by blaming the other side.

Right?