The topic is mass casualty active shooter events. The dude in Vegas killed 58 people and injured 500+ more. Think he could have done that with a handgun?
I never post about Issues…this has me pissed off
- Thread starter woodlandpoke
- Start date
Attention!! That is all that the crazies want whether they pull the trigger or post on social media.
Our country needs a fire arms program similar to Switzerland. Mandatory for all teens and gun deaths are not an issue.
Our country needs a fire arms program similar to Switzerland. Mandatory for all teens and gun deaths are not an issue.
And that attitude is why we can’t find any middle ground in this country anymore. I will never own a gun, but I understand why people might want a handgun for personal/property protection. I also understand that people enjoy hunting, so I see why someone would want a limited-capacity, bolt-action rifle. Either of things can kill people if used with malice intent, but they are less lethal in a mass shooting situation than a semi-automatic, AR-15 style rifle.
So how about banning or severely limiting semi-auto rifle sales and beefing up background checks for handgun/hunting rifle purchases? Is that outlandish considering the current state we live in? I promise you, I’m not playing some long game to get all your guns. If you want a gun, I get it. I would just like to TRY to limit how much lethal potential a single individual can bring to a scene. Cutting down on AR-15 style weapons would seem like a reasonable measure without completely shredding the 2nd Amendment.
He could have leased a semi truck, welded a mean cow catcher or other killing device on the front end, perhaps filled the tires with cement and just driven thru crowd and killed far more.
Maybe even gotten away doing that.
Guys that want mass murder will find ways to do it.
I don’t understand the whole hold gun manufacturers liable argument. There was a mass casualty event involving a car in Texas this weekend also. Do we hold Ford or Toyota or whatever was used liable for the actions of that criminal? Same thing with like drunk drivers. Alcohol distributors, bar, and car company liable or do we just blame the criminal? I don’t own guns and am not fanatical about them but a lot of the arguments on both side of the debate are pretty stupid and aren’t going to solve the problem.
So I’m guessing you’re in favor of citizens being able to stockpile grenades, RPGs, and flamethrowers? The right to bear arms “shall not be infringed” after all. Or do we have room to make a determination on what kind of weaponry is and isn’t appropriate for an individual to own outside of the military or a well-regulated militia?
Nope, but isn't the goal to decrease total deaths? Incredibly tragic incident, but are those 58 peoples' lives more valuable than the thousands that are killed with handguns, especially in inner cities? I know "assault rifle" is the favorite buzz word(s) but all guns are assault weapons. Banning semi-auto rifles won't even make a dent in the total amount of homicides in this country, yet we need to punish the 99.999% of people in this country that own that model of rifle and are good citizens. Makes no sense. An estimated 24.6 million people in the United States own an AR style rifle and there are believed to be over 44 million in circulation.
Armalite (AR) has been around since the late 50s and the AK-47 was released in 1947. These guns have always been there, the people have changed, not the weaponry.
If you're not going to conceal carry to protect yourself and your family, you should consider carrying one or both of the following items. I make my wife carry both of these.
1) Pepper Spray ($16.99)
Amazon product ASIN B004NKSPR8
2) Stun Gun ($14.99)
Amazon product ASIN B01FHIDVYQ
1) Pepper Spray ($16.99)
Amazon product ASIN B004NKSPR8
2) Stun Gun ($14.99)
Amazon product ASIN B01FHIDVYQ
Yep. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Not sure how you can interpret it any other way.
You are allowed to hold those people legally accountable, but cannot do the same with gun manufacturers. There is a reason that cars are thousands of times safer today than they were even 30 years ago. There is a reason that bars cut people off or have policies to find people rides home.
You can file a lawsuit against gun makers.
Not on the scale or as often as it happens here with gun violence.
The "banning doesn't work" argument is so flawed. Why do we ban anything then? Why ban abortions, people will still get them. Why ban drugs, people will still get them. Why ban murder? People still do it.
“Shall not be infringed”. Very straight forward. If they wanted to be “so long as you’re part of a militia”, that’s what it would say.
Holding gun manufacturers liable for someone murdering people is one of the dumbest ****ing ideas I’ve heard. I think we should hold GMC and Ford responsible for people killed by drunk drivers.
Holding gun manufacturers liable for someone murdering people is one of the dumbest ****ing ideas I’ve heard. I think we should hold GMC and Ford responsible for people killed by drunk drivers.
Making business the bad guy is so dumb. They followed the laws on the books and didn’t make an illegal sale but let’s allow them to be punished and potentially put out of business because some psycho misused the product. it’s the same stupid shit the idiots in states like New York are trying to do with energy companies.
It’s the liberal playbook. They don’t like the rules and can’t convince enough citizens to change the rules, so they legislate by other means.
So under this argument should tobacco companies not have to put warning labels on their products? I’m sure you are all Mainway Toys investors with this logic.
What is a car’s primary purpose? What is a gun’s primary purpose? You’re a smart guy. C’mon.
I just watched the Manhunt Boston bomber documentary. Hopefully pressure cooker manufacturers will eventually be held liable.
Guns are designed to shoot bullets. Gun manufacturers can't control how their weapon is used. What are they supposed to do via manufacture to stop a nutjob from going on a rampage?
Yeah. I am. That’s why I know what you think makes sense is completely preposterous.
So you want a warning with every bullet? Seems silly but I guess I’m fine with that as long as we admit that no one forced these people to commit a crime with the product.
Install biorhythm sensors on each weapon so they won’t fire if an unstable person has one in his/her hands.
Im fine with making that admission if it leads to more safety being built in/required for their products.
I ask you again: what is a gun’s purpose vs. a car’s purpose? Or are you willing to admit the car argument has always been a non sequitur?
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Making fun of church and taking religion out of our country was a bad idea and now everyone else has to give up freedoms because of the cultural consequences.
We’re getting closer. Now, what will those bullets do once the gun serves its intended purpose of firing them?
EDIT: I should say I’m not anti-gun across the board. I have fired many myself. However, I’m also of the belief the AR-15 is a totally ridiculous weapon. We can revisit this conversation once the next mass shooting happens, which feels like an unfortunate inevitability.
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There was a time, 25 years ago I would have been fine with some restrictions on rifles. You can't trust any politician, both parties. That day is long gone for me.
All we have left now is the constitution. Look at how some rights were trampled on during COVID. Look at all the people that lost their jobs over false claims on the vax, either intentionally (big pharma profits which has a far larger lobby effort than the NRA) or not having enough science behind the testing of the vax. Or both. I got vaxxed knowing full well it was basically an experimental drug they did not test long enough to know WTH long-term. Some are having to hire back workers they fired over not being vaxxed with full back pay.
The problem, is once you give an inch, politicians take a mile. It happens all the time. They go for the hand guns you will not care because you never intend to own one, you can tell us we can have them, but you will never vote out a candidate wanting to get the handguns. You want middle ground, but you will never vote for middle ground and not vote for or against a politician on this single issue. So, you are a threat to our gun rights in my mind no matter how well intentioned you are.
We are at that point politicians do not vote for something because they believe it is best for the country or morally right, they do it to get elected and re-elected. Period. Politicians want to control our lives and they hate the constitution. Some politicians actually no longer want free speech. Where does it all end? Free speech a far bigger issue than guns IMO. People are shitting all over the constitution left and right.
We better hope SCOTUS upholds the constitution or we are screwed.
We never use to have this problem decades ago. It is a LONG conversation as to way, the guns are not the problem. Parents and schools are the real problem. The medical professionals are only too ready to create all the therapists, drugs, and surgeons needed to "fix" our screwed up kids. We are screwing up kids minds at a far faster rate than decades ago.
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You are correct, people have changed. With that said, maybe it is time to change some regulations.
I am not suggesting a ban on any particular weapon. I am simply suggesting that we somehow make it more difficult for people to get them.
Hell, there was a gun show in Fort Worth in the past few weeks that took up most of the Will Rogers complex. Guess what, anybody could walk in there and walk out that day with a weapon and ammunition. No background check, no training, no mental health check. I mean at least you are supposed to have a license in order to buy and drive a car.
It depresses me that you think this is a convincing argument. A gun’s purpose is to shoot bullets, if necessary, for protection, or for sport/hunting if they are long guns, and for other recreational purposes such as competition shooting or target practice. And for protection of one’s property and family.
Murder is illegal whether done by gun, motor vehicle, or rock.
Nope.... How many were produced and owned by citizens in the 60's and 70's? How many have been produced and sold in the last 20 years. Compare that to graph of mass shootings in the US. Obviously, the issue is much more complicated, but the answer isn't to keep churning out millions of these weapons and letting anyone and everyone snatch them up.
Reading all of these responses there are logical opinions on both sides. Very complicated, very sad.
The first one of these mass murder incidents I remember occurring was in 1984 at a McDonald’s in San Ysidro, California. Some asshole walks in with a shotgun and two 9mms. Killed around 20 people. Pretty sure those people wouldn’t be any more dead had they been murdered with a “weapon of war“.
I’m aware murder is illegal. I’m not the one who resorted to the “What about cars?” argument, which has always been a red herring.
Mass killings is what we need to try and reduce and taking assault weapons from the streets is a logical first effort since they are used the most.
I am all for kids not being killed. I am a parent I get it. On the other side I think the media plays this up and when the Dems are in power these stories are shoved in our face for their political gain. Fear is a deadly weapon used against us.
Its you parents who are ****ing problem. Have you seen how shitty 60% of the world is doing. I mean it isn't hard to teach your kid to respect others and value human life and have some kindness.
How able we start there before taking the thing from people who legal and lawfully enjoy them.
I mean what is stopping a nuclear weapon from being hacked and set off?
Fear, greatest tool the devil uses against mankind.
Its you parents who are ****ing problem. Have you seen how shitty 60% of the world is doing. I mean it isn't hard to teach your kid to respect others and value human life and have some kindness.
How able we start there before taking the thing from people who legal and lawfully enjoy them.
I mean what is stopping a nuclear weapon from being hacked and set off?
Fear, greatest tool the devil uses against mankind.
