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We only want Top 10 p4p's as #1 for their weight...
It's possibly too late for this year, so that's why I said next full recruiting cycle.

I agree though. Top 10s are what you want in the lineup as foundations for the team to build from.

As an aside, I've seen very little success on transfers with two years or less being more successful on a new team. Even PSU (not counting Dean). They can succeed but I've never seen one jump levels so late in college. I think Hamiti has a great opportunity to buck that trend because weight has held him back. Full feed Hamiti can do some damage.
 
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We only want Top 10 p4p's as #1 for their weight...
It's possibly too late for this year, so that's why I said next full recruiting cycle.

I agree though. Top 10s are what you want in the lineup as foundations for the team to build from.

As an aside, I've seen very little success on transfers with two years or less being more successful on a new team. Even PSU (not counting Dean). They can succeed but I've never seen one jump levels so late in college. I think Hamiti has a great opportunity to buck that trend because weight has held him back. Full feed Hamiti can do some damage.
Ok Blair lol.

I'm betting Pearsall and Caldwell are taking Coach Taylors lead and the new guys coming in are ready to live the life and do everything right to be the best. That's a big deal going forward and something to keep in mind. Nothings a 100% of course but I'm thinking we'll be money ahead now as opposed to past recruits. I feel strongly if DT had been named HC months sooner we could've picked up some top 10s and no telling what all transfers.

Izzy made a jump last year and I definitely see something similar happening with Dean. Previous staff OSU>NIU and now with Taylor OSU>Wisc by a mile.
 
I don’t know, he seems pretty tough. He was on the jr national team and the U16 team. It’s like abracadabra, let’s pull this top recruit out of a hat. The big thing is, we are active and pursuing (this was in response to we only want top ten recruits (not saying im against top ten recruits)).
 
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When the ranking say “pound for pound” does that mean ranking overall regardless of weight?
Willie does a national high school big board and an individual big board for each class. The '25 big board wasn't updated as recent as the national list. Routledge comes in at #12 on the national list and he has Jax and Bo taking up two spots ahead of him as Sophs. The national list also only goes to 20 and Zepeda is the last ranked Jr #19. Zepeda is ranked just ahead of Robideau in the '25 big board. When you consider that the national list has 5 Fr and Sophs on it... Robideau is probably actually coming in around #15 now.
 
Willie does a national high school big board and an individual big board for each class. The '25 big board wasn't updated as recent as the national list. Routledge comes in at #12 on the national list and he has Jax and Bo taking up two spots ahead of him as Sophs. The national list also only goes to 20 and Zepeda is the last ranked Jr #19. Zepeda is ranked just ahead of Robideau in the '25 big board. When you consider that the national list has 5 Fr and Sophs on it... Robideau is probably actually coming in around #15 now.
I couldn’t find a ranking that I didn’t have to pay for.
 
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Have you ever gone back and looked at how the top ten recruits fair from class to class? They typically don’t fair so well. I have not looked at the most recent classes but going back a few years, many in the top ten weren’t even wrestling anymore. Just an observation. I think they went over this on Flo during Covid.
 
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It's possibly too late for this year, so that's why I said next full recruiting cycle.

I agree though. Top 10s are what you want in the lineup as foundations for the team to build from
I was joking for the most part.

I think highly rated guys at their weight with good prospecting will turn into outstanding Wrestlers under our current regime.

So I am good with top 3 guys at a weight that have the characteristics that the staff desires. I think those guys will turn into AA's at a high rate.
 
Have you ever gone back and looked at how the top ten recruits fair from class to class? They typically don’t fair so well. I have not looked at the most recent classes but going back a few years, many in the top ten weren’t even wrestling anymore. Just an observation. I think they went over this on Flo during Covid.


Hope this doesn't piss Willie off but it's old info at this point and it ought to drum up interest if anything. @tom_v31 here is the top 10 finals from '20 to '23. I'm using Willie because he does the best job.

2020
1SRAJ FerrariAllenTXOK State285
2SRDustin PlottTuttleOKOK State184
3SRBraxton AmosParkersburg SouthWVWisconsin197
4SRPatrick KennedyKasson-MantorvilleMNIowa165/174
5SRKeegan O'TooleArrowheadWIMissouri165
6SRHunter CatkaSun ValleyPAVirginia Tech285
7SRBeau BartlettSeminaryPAPenn State141
8SRJosh SaundersChristian BrothersMOCornell149
9SRRocky ElamStaleyMOMissouri197
10SRGerrit NijenhuisCanon-McMillanPAPurdue

2021
1Paddy GallagherSt. Edward OH157/165Ohio St.
2Alex FacundoDavison MI174Penn St.
3Richie FigueroaSelma CA125Arizona St.
4Drake AyalaFort Dodge IA133Iowa
5Shayne Van NessBlair NJ141/149Penn St.
6Dean HamitiJoliet Cath. IL157/165Wisconsin
7Lenny PintoStroudsburg PA184Nebraska
8Chance LamerCrescent Valley OR149Michigan
9Alejandro HerreraSeneca Valley PA157Oklahoma
10Dean PetersonVianney NJ133Princeton

2022
1Nick FeldmanMalvern PrepPA285Ohio St.
2Daniel CardenasPomonaCO157/165Stanford
3Casey SwiderskiDundeeMI149Iowa St.
4Jesse MendezCrown PointIN141Ohio St.
5Nic BouzakisWy SemPA133Ohio St.
6Dylan FishbackAuroraOH197NC State
7Levi HainesBiglervillePA157/165Penn St.
8TJ StewartBlairDC197Virginia Tech
9Hunter GarvinIowa City W.IA149Stanford
10Jordan WilliamsOwassoOK165OK State

2023
1******Meyer ShapiroWy SemPA149/157Cornell
2*****Christian CarrollNew PrairieIN285OK State
3*****Rocco WelshWaynesburgPA165/174Ohio St.
4*****Josh BarrDavisonMI174/184Penn St.
5*****Brayden ThompsonMontiniIL184OK State
6*****Ben KueterIowa CityIA285Iowa
7****Beau MantanonaPalm DesertCA165Michigan
8****Cael HughesStillwaterOK133OK State
9****Tyler KasakBECAPA149Penn St.
10****Kannon WebsterWashingtonIL149Illinois
 
Have you ever gone back and looked at how the top ten recruits fair from class to class? They typically don’t fair so well. I have not looked at the most recent classes but going back a few years, many in the top ten weren’t even wrestling anymore. Just an observation. I think they went over this on Flo during Covid.

You might want to revisit this. ask @smalls103 - recruiting rankings and guys in the top 10/top 50 have a VERY high rate of return in the last decade as opposed to any other time in recruiting.

To be completely honest, while the recruiting rankings reflect wins more than anything - guys are living better lives and then entering programs that do a good job of keeping them on track.
 
A post from one of the better PSU posters

"I see Lockett staying with Oklahoma State when the dust settles. I think it's possible he thinks he's taking a leap of faith with a new coach (as great of a wrestler as DT was, it's still a transition to college coaching by DT's own admission) Lockett can wait until after NCAAs to officially sign if he wants (nobody is going to pull his offer) and if DT has tremendous 1st year results, I think he's all in.
These are all great gets by DT and shows kid trust his development abilities. 2025 kids for the most part were spoken for but he managed to flip 2 kids (one being an Oklahoma kid) and land another good kid in Ramirez. Know he put the full court press on for Marcus Blaze (last uncommitted big prize) Wouldn't be shocked to see a few more flips (possibly PA kids like Rath, Seidel, Shaw)"
 


You might want to revisit this. ask @smalls103 - recruiting rankings and guys in the top 10/top 50 have a VERY high rate of return in the last decade as opposed to any other time in recruiting.

To be completely honest, while the recruiting rankings reflect wins more than anything - guys are living better lives and then entering programs that do a good job of keeping them on track.
The grind mentality is becoming more of a thing of the past
 
Have you ever gone back and looked at how the top ten recruits fair from class to class? They typically don’t fair so well. I have not looked at the most recent classes but going back a few years, many in the top ten weren’t even wrestling anymore. Just an observation. I think they went over this on Flo during Covid.
Disagree
 
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Hope this doesn't piss Willie off but it's old info at this point and it ought to drum up interest if anything. @tom_v31 here is the top 10 finals from '20 to '23. I'm using Willie because he does the best job.

2020
1SRAJ FerrariAllenTXOK State285
2SRDustin PlottTuttleOKOK State184
3SRBraxton AmosParkersburg SouthWVWisconsin197
4SRPatrick KennedyKasson-MantorvilleMNIowa165/174
5SRKeegan O'TooleArrowheadWIMissouri165
6SRHunter CatkaSun ValleyPAVirginia Tech285
7SRBeau BartlettSeminaryPAPenn State141
8SRJosh SaundersChristian BrothersMOCornell149
9SRRocky ElamStaleyMOMissouri197
10SRGerrit NijenhuisCanon-McMillanPAPurdue

2021
1Paddy GallagherSt. Edward OH157/165Ohio St.
2Alex FacundoDavison MI174Penn St.
3Richie FigueroaSelma CA125Arizona St.
4Drake AyalaFort Dodge IA133Iowa
5Shayne Van NessBlair NJ141/149Penn St.
6Dean HamitiJoliet Cath. IL157/165Wisconsin
7Lenny PintoStroudsburg PA184Nebraska
8Chance LamerCrescent Valley OR149Michigan
9Alejandro HerreraSeneca Valley PA157Oklahoma
10Dean PetersonVianney NJ133Princeton

2022
1Nick FeldmanMalvern PrepPA285Ohio St.
2Daniel CardenasPomonaCO157/165Stanford
3Casey SwiderskiDundeeMI149Iowa St.
4Jesse MendezCrown PointIN141Ohio St.
5Nic BouzakisWy SemPA133Ohio St.
6Dylan FishbackAuroraOH197NC State
7Levi HainesBiglervillePA157/165Penn St.
8TJ StewartBlairDC197Virginia Tech
9Hunter GarvinIowa City W.IA149Stanford
10Jordan WilliamsOwassoOK165OK State

2023
1******Meyer ShapiroWy SemPA149/157Cornell
2*****Christian CarrollNew PrairieIN285OK State
3*****Rocco WelshWaynesburgPA165/174Ohio St.
4*****Josh BarrDavisonMI174/184Penn St.
5*****Brayden ThompsonMontiniIL184OK State
6*****Ben KueterIowa CityIA285Iowa
7****Beau MantanonaPalm DesertCA165Michigan
8****Cael HughesStillwaterOK133OK State
9****Tyler KasakBECAPA149Penn St.
10****Kannon WebsterWashingtonIL149Illinois
I'd say this is a pretty impressive list. Of course they don't all meet potential but the point is that on average they fare significantly better than kids in the 10-25 range. If we start looking at multi-time national champs, i.e., the kind of guys that it takes to win it all, then a top 10 ranking is likely even more predictive.
 
Couple thoughts.

Iowa State is a great program that has been doing well in recent years, often better than OSU. It’s not a bad choice to go there. I do think they have a better short term prognosis (1-2 years) but OSU is poised to be a recruiting powerhouse and likely has a higher ceiling.

Perry could have been fired after the osterine fiasco. Even if Daton had never drank the stuff it was still incredibly poor judgment to recommend that an athlete’s father (and RTC coach in waiting) experiment with a banned substance. I mean give me a break. Daton didn’t get a lifetime ban from wrestling (he could have) but he did get a lifetime black mark and Perry got what, a slap on the wrist maybe? His same annual raise? I don’t remember even him giving a sincere public apology. Hard not to be a little salty about how that whole thing went down in light of Perry now supposedly being all vindictive about the coaching carousel. Yes he’s a Poke so I’ll always kind of root for him but there seems to be some gratitude lacking for getting to keep his position through both that fiasco and general underperformance/boring defensive/outdated style that spread in the team once he came aboard. Broad strokes I realize as he did a lot of good things for the team and definitely helped build Plott into a monster but still. Just weird to read all this stuff about him being out for blood when it’s like bro chill, you aren’t exactly blameless for your exit from staff.
Yes I thought he should have been fired at the time but there is that nepotism thing. Never understood that in athletics as not allowed on the academic side.
 
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Hope this doesn't piss Willie off but it's old info at this point and it ought to drum up interest if anything. @tom_v31 here is the top 10 finals from '20 to '23. I'm using Willie because he does the best job.

2020
1SRAJ FerrariAllenTXOK State285
2SRDustin PlottTuttleOKOK State184
3SRBraxton AmosParkersburg SouthWVWisconsin197
4SRPatrick KennedyKasson-MantorvilleMNIowa165/174
5SRKeegan O'TooleArrowheadWIMissouri165
6SRHunter CatkaSun ValleyPAVirginia Tech285
7SRBeau BartlettSeminaryPAPenn State141
8SRJosh SaundersChristian BrothersMOCornell149
9SRRocky ElamStaleyMOMissouri197
10SRGerrit NijenhuisCanon-McMillanPAPurdue

2021
1Paddy GallagherSt. Edward OH157/165Ohio St.
2Alex FacundoDavison MI174Penn St.
3Richie FigueroaSelma CA125Arizona St.
4Drake AyalaFort Dodge IA133Iowa
5Shayne Van NessBlair NJ141/149Penn St.
6Dean HamitiJoliet Cath. IL157/165Wisconsin
7Lenny PintoStroudsburg PA184Nebraska
8Chance LamerCrescent Valley OR149Michigan
9Alejandro HerreraSeneca Valley PA157Oklahoma
10Dean PetersonVianney NJ133Princeton

2022
1Nick FeldmanMalvern PrepPA285Ohio St.
2Daniel CardenasPomonaCO157/165Stanford
3Casey SwiderskiDundeeMI149Iowa St.
4Jesse MendezCrown PointIN141Ohio St.
5Nic BouzakisWy SemPA133Ohio St.
6Dylan FishbackAuroraOH197NC State
7Levi HainesBiglervillePA157/165Penn St.
8TJ StewartBlairDC197Virginia Tech
9Hunter GarvinIowa City W.IA149Stanford
10Jordan WilliamsOwassoOK165OK State

2023
1******Meyer ShapiroWy SemPA149/157Cornell
2*****Christian CarrollNew PrairieIN285OK State
3*****Rocco WelshWaynesburgPA165/174Ohio St.
4*****Josh BarrDavisonMI174/184Penn St.
5*****Brayden ThompsonMontiniIL184OK State
6*****Ben KueterIowa CityIA285Iowa
7****Beau MantanonaPalm DesertCA165Michigan
8****Cael HughesStillwaterOK133OK State
9****Tyler KasakBECAPA149Penn St.
10****Kannon WebsterWashingtonIL149Illinois
Some GLARING opportunity to me here!

Look at what the Penn State kids do compared to everyone else. Even look at the weight projections.

We have the PSU understudy, a guy that was probably part of the method development. Shoot, it’s very possible he was the the case study?

I honestly don’t care who he signs, he signs them to win and wining will be done.
 
Hope this doesn't piss Willie off but it's old info at this point and it ought to drum up interest if anything. @tom_v31 here is the top 10 finals from '20 to '23. I'm using Willie because he does the best job.

2020
1SRAJ FerrariAllenTXOK State285
2SRDustin PlottTuttleOKOK State184
3SRBraxton AmosParkersburg SouthWVWisconsin197
4SRPatrick KennedyKasson-MantorvilleMNIowa165/174
5SRKeegan O'TooleArrowheadWIMissouri165
6SRHunter CatkaSun ValleyPAVirginia Tech285
7SRBeau BartlettSeminaryPAPenn State141
8SRJosh SaundersChristian BrothersMOCornell149
9SRRocky ElamStaleyMOMissouri197
10SRGerrit NijenhuisCanon-McMillanPAPurdue

2021
1Paddy GallagherSt. Edward OH157/165Ohio St.
2Alex FacundoDavison MI174Penn St.
3Richie FigueroaSelma CA125Arizona St.
4Drake AyalaFort Dodge IA133Iowa
5Shayne Van NessBlair NJ141/149Penn St.
6Dean HamitiJoliet Cath. IL157/165Wisconsin
7Lenny PintoStroudsburg PA184Nebraska
8Chance LamerCrescent Valley OR149Michigan
9Alejandro HerreraSeneca Valley PA157Oklahoma
10Dean PetersonVianney NJ133Princeton

2022
1Nick FeldmanMalvern PrepPA285Ohio St.
2Daniel CardenasPomonaCO157/165Stanford
3Casey SwiderskiDundeeMI149Iowa St.
4Jesse MendezCrown PointIN141Ohio St.
5Nic BouzakisWy SemPA133Ohio St.
6Dylan FishbackAuroraOH197NC State
7Levi HainesBiglervillePA157/165Penn St.
8TJ StewartBlairDC197Virginia Tech
9Hunter GarvinIowa City W.IA149Stanford
10Jordan WilliamsOwassoOK165OK State

2023
1******Meyer ShapiroWy SemPA149/157Cornell
2*****Christian CarrollNew PrairieIN285OK State
3*****Rocco WelshWaynesburgPA165/174Ohio St.
4*****Josh BarrDavisonMI174/184Penn St.
5*****Brayden ThompsonMontiniIL184OK State
6*****Ben KueterIowa CityIA285Iowa
7****Beau MantanonaPalm DesertCA165Michigan
8****Cael HughesStillwaterOK133OK State
9****Tyler KasakBECAPA149Penn St.
10****Kannon WebsterWashingtonIL149Illinois
I guess I stirred a hornets nest with my opinion. It’s hard to tell with this list, because most of these guys still have opportunities to podium, but some of the bigger and under performers so far are OSU boys. The speaks of the development issues we have been having over the past years.
 
I guess I stirred a hornets nest with my opinion. It’s hard to tell with this list, because most of these guys still have opportunities to podium, but some of the bigger and under performers so far are OSU boys. The speaks of the development issues we have been having over the past years.
I don’t see what your referring to…from the lists.

I agree in general about our development, but not that we highlight the negative part of the list.
 
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I don’t see what your referring to…from the lists.

I agree in general about our development, but not that we highlight the negative part of the list.
some bad character evaluation and a lack of development to fix some of those problems.

‘20 would look a lot different if AJ wasn’t an idiot

‘21 & ‘22 we basically got skunked

‘23 has the chance to be what @tom_v31 is talking about if BT and Cael don’t get it going.
 
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