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Hate crime in Chicago

He asked if you see a difference in community and safety between beating someone up for being black a specific motivation) and someone beating someone up for stiffing them on a poker bet (a different specific motivation).

You responded by comparing two random viscious attacks....one because they are black and one because they are just walking by.

That’s not the same thing as his question. His proposal didn’t involve two random attacks with unknown motivations. His question involved to specific attacks with specific motivations. I’d like to see you address the specific motivations in his question instead of two random attacks of unspecified motivation.

What started this debate for me was you saying you really don’t understand hate crime designations...not Castro’s Tweet.

But I will address his tweet since you asked.

No Castro isn’t implying that if it wasn’t a racial and homophobic attack then justice does not to be as fast, IMO. He’s basically stating that it needs to be as fast as attacks on white, straight people. He’s stating a belief or fear that justice might not be as fast as it otherwise might be if it wasn’t racially or homophobically motivated because of systemic racism and homophobia. I don’t have or agree with that belief or fear, but kinda understand why some might feel that way.


Two random vicious attacks are the same comparison. In Pilts example it was a crime motivated by racial hate and another crime to get someone back at a poker debt. Both are assumably preplanned , both because they are mad at the person, and both harm the victim.

A horrific crime committed against a person because he happened to walk by is not less horrific than a crime committed because of someone race, religion, or sexual orientation. They are both bad and justice should be blind to the differences of the victim.

To your Castro answer: And I kinda understand why some feel that a designation for a hate crime incremental to other crimes is needed, but I don’t have to agree that way.
 
Two random vicious attacks are the same comparison. In Pilts example it was a crime motivated by racial hate and another crime to get someone back at a poker debt. Both are assumably preplanned , both because they are mad at the person, and both harm the victim.

A horrific crime committed against a person because he happened to walk by is not less horrific than a crime committed because of someone race, religion, or sexual orientation. They are both bad and justice should be blind to the differences of the victim.

To your Castro answer: And I kinda understand why some feel that a designation for a hate crime incremental to other crimes is needed, but I don’t have to agree that way.

No two different random vicious attacks is not the same comparison as two specific attacks with specific motivations.

We have all kinds of crimes that aren’t blind to the differences of the victim other than race, religion, or sexual orientation....including (like I said earlier) job, and others like age of victim, the elderly and infirm, the mentally incompetent.

I never said you had to agree with a hate crime designation. I was never trying to get you on board with hate crime designations. I understood I had no shot at that. I was merely responding to your statement that you don’t understand them by explaining the reasoning behind them and pointing out that we have many other very similar crimes based solely upon the status of the victim statutes an the analogous reasoning for them...some of which I believed that you wouldn’t have a problem with.

You started off this discussion with saying that you didn’t understand hate crime designations. You ended here at least saying you now kinda understand why some people think they are needed...so kudos on the progress.
 
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TTIUWOP or TTIUWOV. It's all about fake news.....
 
odds on the story

1-9 his lover kicked his ass and he went with the maga fantasy

10-1 his story holds water as told

we’ll see if he gets stoned roger style

any other scenarios with odds welcomed
 
My 2 cents on hate crime legislation for what it's worth. And it's not 2 cents.

I used to be firmly in the camp that hate crimes were just crimes. You assault someone because you are just an asshole or you assault someone because you hate gays - it didn't matter to the one assaulted. But then hate crimes, like terrorism, are not intended to hurt just the one being attacked or killed. They are actions on the greater community meant to intimidate and have them live in fear in order to drive them out or change their behavior. As such, the crimes should have some extra charge that accounts for this added intent on others outside the specific action.

I shoot my wife because I find her in bed with another doesn't make everyone else fearful. But I shoot my wife because I find out she's gay; well, that's meant to send a message to other gays to be wary of who they are as a person.

So, I've come around to understanding the merits of hate crime legislation. Now... what needs to happen is a good discussion of what we consider protected classes.

If a MAGA wearing hat kid is assaulted because his political beliefs then that is meant to send a message to Trump supporters that they are all targets and should be fearful or change their behavior. To me, that's a hate crime even though today, I don't think it would be considered such.
 
My 2 cents on hate crime legislation for what it's worth. And it's not 2 cents.

I used to be firmly in the camp that hate crimes were just crimes. You assault someone because you are just an asshole or you assault someone because you hate gays - it didn't matter to the one assaulted. But then hate crimes, like terrorism, are not intended to hurt just the one being attacked or killed. They are actions on the greater community meant to intimidate and have them live in fear in order to drive them out or change their behavior. As such, the crimes should have some extra charge that accounts for this added intent on others outside the specific action.

I shoot my wife because I find her in bed with another doesn't make everyone else fearful. But I shoot my wife because I find out she's gay; well, that's meant to send a message to other gays to be wary of who they are as a person.

So, I've come around to understanding the merits of hate crime legislation. Now... what needs to happen is a good discussion of what we consider protected classes.

If a MAGA wearing hat kid is assaulted because his political beliefs then that is meant to send a message to Trump supporters that they are all targets and should be fearful or change their behavior. To me, that's a hate crime even though today, I don't think it would be considered such.
Bravo
 
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Article from AP Central U.S.

Police: No footage yet showing 'Empire' actor being attacked

CHICAGO (AP) — Detectives have reviewed surveillance footage of “Empire” actor Jussie Smollett walking to a downtown Chicago apartment after an early morning visit to a Subway restaurant, but none of it showed an attack on the actor, a police official said Wednesday.

Investigators “for the most part” can confirm the route Smollett took early Tuesday when he says he was attacked by two masked men along a street in the Streeterville neighborhood, police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said. However, there are gaps and none of the footage police have reviewed shows an attack, he said, noting that the review is ongoing.
Smollett, who is black and gay and who plays the gay character Jamal Lyon on the hit Fox television show, said the men beat him, subjected him to racist and homophobic insults, threw an “unknown chemical substance” on him and put a thin rope around his neck before fleeing.

Guglielmi said detectives who are investigating the allegations as a possible hate crime have looked at hundreds of hours of surveillance video from businesses and hotels in the heavily monitored area. But he said they still need to collect and view more. He said they are expanding the search to include footage from public buses and buildings beyond the scene’s immediate vicinity in the hopes of spotting the men who match Smollett’s description of the suspects.

“We haven’t seen anybody, at this point, matching the description he gave, nobody looks menacing and we didn’t find a container anywhere,” Guglielmi said, referring to a container for the liquid that the actor said was thrown at him.

Smollett, 36, returned to his apartment and his manager called police from there about 40 minutes later, Guglielmi said. When officers arrived, the actor had cuts and scrapes on his face and the “thin rope” around his neck that he said had been put there by his assailant, he said. Smollett later went to Northwestern Memorial Hospital after police advised him to do so.

The FBI is investigating a threatening letter targeting Smollett that was sent last week to the Fox studio in Chicago where “Empire” is filmed, Guglielmi said. The FBI did not immediately return a call seeking comment Wednesday, but Bobby Rush, a Democratic congressman from Chicago, issued a statement calling on the agency to conduct “an immediate and sweeping civil rights investigation into the racist and homophobic attack.”

In addition to his acting career, Smollett has a musical career and is a noted activist, particularly on LBGTQ issues.

There has been a flood of outrage and support for Smollett on social media. Among the many celebrities and politicians who weighed in was California Sen. Kamala Harris, a 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful who knows Smollett. She called the attack “outrageous” and “awful.”

Some of the outrage stems from Smollett’s account to detectives that his attackers yelled that he was in “MAGA country,” an apparent reference to the Trump campaign’s “Make America Great Again” slogan, which some critics of the president have decried as racist and discriminatory.

Chicago has one of the most sophisticated and extensive video surveillance systems in the U.S., with thousands of cameras on street poles, skyscrapers, buses and in train tunnels.

Police say the cameras have helped them make thousands of arrests. In one of the best known examples of the department’s use of the cameras, investigators in 2009 were able to recreate a school board president’s 20-minute drive through the city, singling out his car on a succession of surveillance cameras to help them determine that he committed suicide and had not been followed and killed by someone else, as his friends speculated.
 
odds on the story

1-9 his lover kicked his ass and he went with the maga fantasy

10-1 his story holds water as told

we’ll see if he gets stoned roger style

any other scenarios with odds welcomed
I'll take "Cat Fight" for a $1,000 Alex!
 
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I just want to clarify what we are purporting as to have actually happened. A TV actor on a popular show, who is AA and LGBT, was accosted by 2 white individuals at 2AM outside a Subway Restaurant in downtown Chicago where it was below zero. These perpetrators referenced MAGA while pouring bleach on him and put a rope around his neck. They were also wearing ski masks. Also of note, thus far in 100s of hours of video watched, there is evidence of him being around the Subway, but thus far zero video of the perps themselves. Is this an accurate summary?
 
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I just want to clarify what we are purporting as to have actually happened. A TV actor on a popular show, who is AA and LGBT, was accosted by 2 white individuals at 2AM outside a Subway Restaurant in downtown Chicago where it was below zero. These perpetrators referenced MAGA while pouring bleach on him and put a rope around his neck. They were also wearing ski masks. Also of note, thus far in 100s of hours of video watched, there is evidence of him being around the Subway, but thus far zero video of the perps themselves. Is this an accurate summary?
Yes....... disgusting behavior.
 
I just want to clarify what we are purporting as to have actually happened. A TV actor on a popular show, who is AA and LGBT, was accosted by 2 white individuals at 2AM outside a Subway Restaurant in downtown Chicago where it was below zero. These perpetrators referenced MAGA while pouring bleach on him and put a rope around his neck. They were also wearing ski masks. Also of note, thus far in 100s of hours of video watched, there is evidence of him being around the Subway, but thus far zero video of the perps themselves. Is this an accurate summary?

Yep, that's about right. I'm tracking with Purkey on this or maybe it was a meet up that went wrong and his explanation would mollify a "friend." Noticed Maxine " horse face" Waters is already blaming Trump.
 
Yep, that's about right. I'm tracking with Purkey on this or maybe it was a meet up that went wrong and his explanation would mollify a "friend." Noticed Maxine " horse face" Waters is already blaming Trump.
The victim’s twitter feed has several anti-Trump tweets. Plus at least one that call Trump a racial slur.
 
looks like they've found 2 persons of interest...

Empire-Actor-attack-1.jpg


and yes, they are serious.

if they spent this much time tracking down all the murderers in chicago...well, never mind.
 
not feeling the outrage up in here

hells bells this has been msm news two nights running

all kinds of celebs tweeting love and support

kamala talking lynching needs to be a federal offense

c’mon let’s have the conversation
 
not feeling the outrage up in here

hells bells this has been msm news two nights running

all kinds of celebs tweeting love and support

kamala talking lynching needs to be a federal offense

c’mon let’s have the conversation

Think they’ll keep showing support when it comes out that it was a jealous boyfriend and his buddy that jacked him up for hitting on his man at a club? That’s what one witness at the club is saying happened.
 
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Think they’ll keep showing support when it comes out that it was a jealous boyfriend and his buddy that jacked him up for hitting on his man at a club? That’s what one witness at the club is saying happened.

for reals

is that what you hearing?

upon this news rdcldad’s secretariat like
1-9 is now 1-33

purkeys dime at 1-9 is paying out a cool 110 for an 11% one day return

still an opp to lay the 1-33

now let’s get into the lying to the fbi since they got involved

i’m offering 30-1 lying to the fbi charges are filed 50-1 on a felony conviction and 100/1 he does anytime for lying to the fbi

*disclaimer this is for entertainment and satirical purposes only no money has or will change hands
 
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come on man...a bet's a bet! A wagers' a wager. no disclaimers.
 
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for reals

is that what you hearing?

upon this news rdcldad’s secretariat like
1-9 is now 1-33

purkeys dime at 1-9 is paying out a cool 110 for an 11% one day return

still an opp to lay the 1-33

now let’s get into the lying to the fbi since they got involved

i’m offering 30-1 lying to the fbi charges are filed 50-1 on a felony conviction and 100/1 he does anytime for lying to the fbi

*disclaimer this is for entertainment and satirical purposes only no money has or will change hands

Yes - but it was some rando on twatter. No idea how reliable, but it was a helluva lot more believable than a Chicago "lynching" in MAGA country.
 
A lady that lives in the same building complex takes her dog out at 12:30am and notices a white guy who's jeans are too short, wearing hunting socks and has a clothesline or something hanging out of his pocket...thinks he looks like a "rednecks." And she is so concerned about the man being out of place she does what? Nothing.

Supposedly he is on the phone with his agent (maybe they said lawyer) and the guy hears the whole thing, including the MAGA Country quip and he is so concerned he does what? Nothing.

The actor and the person he was on the phone with are so incensed and mad at the perps that they would surely want to turn their phones over to the coppers, right? Nope.
.
 
What would be the purpose of Smollett to say NO to releasing his phone records? If you were assaulted wouldn’t you want to provide the police with all the ammo they need to make a fast arrest?
 
What would be the purpose of Smollett to say NO to releasing his phone records? If you were assaulted wouldn’t you want to provide the police with all the ammo they need to make a fast arrest?

Smells like contrived narrative?
 
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