GOT Finale

[FMPoke]

I was thinking they would put Jon on trial and he would say he wanted trial by combat and fight grey worm. Jon would win and go live in the north. Of course I have been wrong most of the time anyway.

I don't think hordes & mercenaries have a lot of trials. They pretty much just sack the city and kill everyone. I was expecting some type of Greyworm vs Jon showdown for sure. That we didn't get it was part of what seemed so out of place about the whole episode. For ten years everything has been settled by combat or back stabbing deals. Either way the loser died. But suddenly last night we were all about forming a committee and inventing a whole new governmental system so everyone gets a happy ending. Just didn't fit with the rest of the series..

 

[CBradSmith]

1. Agree even by this season standards that was a huge editing issue. I feel like there was probably something between those two scenes in the original script that got cut.

2. Remember Tyrion had set up the escape by the same path he got away for Jamie. He had Davos leave the boat there. He was simply follow the escape route they would have taken so him looking there made sense. The rest was just this season lets move this along writing.

3. The Dragon was guarding the entrance. I took that whole thing to be a Jon is a Trag moment so the Dragon trust him and won't harm him..

4. Dani army seemed to grow instead of shrink. More sloppy writing. I guess the Dothraki go back to Erros but the bigger plot hole to me is no reaction to Dani's death. They should have gone nuts, slaughtered Jon and probably burned the whole city.

5. Everyone seems to be questioning Grey Worm's role. I think that because the scene was so badly set up. Grey Worm had a say because he was holding Jon and the city. They either had to make peace with the Unsullied or fight a civil war for control of the city. Grey Worm had a lot of leverage. To me the first plot hole was Grey Worm even taking Jon prisoner and holding him for weeks or months. Realistically Grey Worm would have executed Jon on the spot once they figured out what happen and captured him.

#3 was a great effect and acknowledgement of Jon's heritage, as was the dragon's reaction after finding Dany dead.

 

[SquinkY5786]

Bran took the thrown simply so he would stop being left in random places without someone to push.

 

[Been Jammin]

Bran took the thrown simply so he would stop being left in random places without someone to push.

LOL. Game of Throwns

 

[CBradSmith]

I don't think hordes & mercenaries have a lot of trials. They pretty much just sack the city and kill everyone. I was expecting some type of Greyworm vs Jon showdown for sure. That we didn't get it was part of what seemed so out of place about the whole episode. For ten years everything has been settled by combat or back stabbing deals. Either way the loser died. But suddenly last night we were all about forming a committee and inventing a whole new governmental system so everyone gets a happy ending. Just didn't fit with the rest of the series..

"I've got this idea...hear me out...I call it (air quotes) a democracy."

Obviously that's not exactly what he said, but it was horrible.

 

[MegaPoke]

Agree with almost all of the criticism in this thread. Here are a few trivial things that really bothered me as I was watching.

-Opening scene. Jon and Grey Worm have beef. Davos steps in and tells Jon "you need to talk to the queen". Jon and Davos leave to go talk to the queen. GW stays behind to slit some throats. Next scene. Jon is walking up the steps to talk to the queen and there's GW standing next to her. What de fuk? Are there two of him? Can he teleport like Nightcrawler? Did Jon stop in a pub for drink before heading over to have this extremely important chat with the queen? Just awful, unforgivably poor writing.

-Tyrion goes to the Red Keep by himself. Is he a bloodhound or something? Not only does he know to look for his siblings in the basement, but he ends up going right to the place where they are buried in rubble, and conveniently, they are buried shallow enough that he can easily uncover them and have a good cry. I don't know, maybe he could have stumbled across a partially crushed, surviving Lanister soldier who said, "I saw them go that way". Something, anything to help him know where to go other than his mysterious spider sense.

-Jon, after already having one conversation with Dani, approaches her again by the Iron Throne. Why is she there with no guards? I mean, she has clearly just murdered 10s of thousands of people. She might have some enemies. She doesn't have Drogon with her. Why would she go anywhere without a couple of Unsullied tailing her? Have Jon stab her, then take on a couple of guards. Would have made for a much more compelling scene and a nice bit of action in the finale.

-Grey Worm takes the Unsullied to Naath. But, what about the surviving Dothraki? Do they get a castle? Are they going back to Essos? Are they going to roam around Westeros raping and pillaging? HBO showed a bunch of them in the episode, so it isn't like there are only a handful of them left (which there should be after their stupid charge into the army of the dead). Either finish the season letting the viewer know that there are hardly any of them left, or give us some closure as to what happens to their fairly large group.

-I'm OK with Jon ending up at the Wall. I agree that it should be his choice, rather than exile (and it is stupid that GW gets a say in Jon's fate). But, when Jon says, "Is there even a Night's Watch left?" The next line should have been "Only a tiny percentage of the land north of the wall has ever been seen by man. There might be a whole city of White Walkers that we don't know about". Give the viewer a reason for rebuilding the Wall and remanning it with a combination of Wildlings, Rapists, Thieves....and Jon to lead them. I mean, they basically took the main character, and ended with him going somewhere to waste his time until he eventually dies.

Grey Worm having any say at all is bullshit. I get that the unsullied held the city and n ended to be coaxed out, but exiling the rightful king to placate them does not make strategic sense.

A much more satisfying ending would’ve had Jon kill Danny after she tried to stab him, followed by him renouncing his crown and heading to the wall because he wants to.

 

[EvilPOKES]

It was just sloppy to me. Even with the two years of waiting, it felt rushed. The actors, crew, directors, etc. did great. The let down was the writing and GRRM.

 

[SSS!!!]

Yeah, but this wasn't the same thing. Jon leaves GW. Everything suggests that he is going straight to Dani. He gets to Dani and there's GW. At least in the other cases you could say, "OK, I guess a few days have passed" to explain the seeming teleportation. This was just a case of really bad writing. Give us something to distract Jon before he gets to Dani. Use someone other than GW in the opening scene. Don't have GW next to Dani when Jon gets to her. Easy fix.

 

[SSS!!!]

So, is the fact that the WWs are gone that now Bran doesn’t have to be the 3ER possibly? I mean, he spent the last two seasons telling his own family and anyone that would listen he isn’t Bran and renouncing his title as Lord of Winterfell. Now he’s cool w being called Bran the Broken and being king of all of Westeros?? Makes no sense, but seems like something that could have easily been explained.

 

[JonnyVito]

ten years...

 

[FMPoke]

So, is the fact that the WWs are gone that now Bran doesn’t have to be the 3ER possibly? I mean, he spent the last two seasons telling his own family and anyone that would listen he isn’t Bran and renouncing his title as Lord of Winterfell. Now he’s cool w being called Bran the Broken and being king of all of Westeros?? Makes no sense, but seems like something that could have easily been explained.

I thought his response when ask if he would be King was the weirdest moment of the night. Something like "why do you think I'm here". Like he knew how all this was going to play out. If so did he not have a problem with Dani killing a million people so he could become king or is that kind of just fate to him. The whole thing was very poorly explained. Maybe that was intentional.

 

[Been Jammin]

Picked this up off of Reddit. Thought it was a bunch of good points..

This was one of the "Wait...What?" moments I had when watching that I haven't seen mentioned:

The maesters in Oldtown voted Sam the Grand Maester...even though he abandoned training, stole the rarest books they have, has forged no rings, never got past shit duty, is now the Lord of Horn Hill (and technically the maester in training for the Night's Watch) and has a pregnant equivalent of a "common law" wife.

On top of that, technically, Sam is a deserter from the Nights Watch if he doesn't either go back to the wall or continue training at the Citadel. Someone should probably chop his head off if he tries to stay in KL as a member of the small council.

 

[JonnyVito]

I guess I found the one person who loved the finale. Talked to my sister a little bit ago and she informed that she just loved the finale. She thought the ending was great. I just hung up on her.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Picked this up off of Reddit. Thought it was a bunch of good points..

This was one of the "Wait...What?" moments I had when watching that I haven't seen mentioned:

The maesters in Oldtown voted Sam the Grand Maester...even though he abandoned training, stole the rarest books they have, has forged no rings, never got past shit duty, is now the Lord of Horn Hill (and technically the maester in training for the Night's Watch) and has a pregnant equivalent of a "common law" wife.

On top of that, technically, Sam is a deserter from the Nights Watch if he doesn't either go back to the wall or continue training at the Citadel. Someone should probably chop his head off if he tries to stay in KL as a member of the small council.

That was weird. Of course we don't know how long after being named King that that final scene played out. Presumably long enough for him to finish his training at the Citadel.

 

[FMPoke]

Picked this up off of Reddit. Thought it was a bunch of good points..

This was one of the "Wait...What?" moments I had when watching that I haven't seen mentioned:

The maesters in Oldtown voted Sam the Grand Maester...even though he abandoned training, stole the rarest books they have, has forged no rings, never got past shit duty, is now the Lord of Horn Hill (and technically the maester in training for the Night's Watch) and has a pregnant equivalent of a "common law" wife.

On top of that, technically, Sam is a deserter from the Nights Watch if he doesn't either go back to the wall or continue training at the Citadel. Someone should probably chop his head off if he tries to stay in KL as a member of the small council.

Yeah I was wondering about that at the time. I wasn't sure if he was appointed Grand Maester over the Citadel or just maester of the Red Keep. Either way he isn't actually a Maester. I thought he was appointed by Bran not elected like the pope. It makes no sense.

As King Brandon does have the power to pardon him from deserting the nights watch. I would assume that was what happened.

 

[JonnyVito]

That was weird. Of course we don't know how long after being named King that that final scene played out. Presumably long enough for him to finish his training at the Citadel.

It was a month or so

 

[FMPoke]

Also thought Bronn was an odd choice for master of coin. I guess it was based on the fact that as the new lord of high garden he has the most money. Seemed like to me of all the characters he came out the best. From sell sword to one of the richest man in Westros.

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

Also thought Bronn was an odd choice for master of coin. I guess it was based on the fact that as the new lord of high garden he has the most money. Seemed like to me of all the characters he came out the best. From sell sword to one of the richest man in Westros.

As a condition of the new job, he had to give back the crossbow.

 

[Been Jammin]

That was weird. Of course we don't know how long after being named King that that final scene played out. Presumably long enough for him to finish his training at the Citadel.

It couldn't have been too long since they still hadn't found a Master of Whisperers or Master of Laws. Certainly not enough time for him to go from bedpan cleaner to Grand Maester.

And it still doesn't explain away his common law wife, adopted child and his own child and his role as apparent Lord of Horn Hill. You know, all the things that a Maester vows not to have. And all the things that a member of the NW vows not to have.

 

[FMPoke]

It couldn't have been too long since they still hadn't found a Master of Whisperers or Master of Laws. Certainly not enough time for him to go from bedpan cleaner to Grand Maester.

And it still doesn't explain away his common law wife, adopted child and his own child and his role as apparent Lord of Horn Hill. You know, all the things that a Maester vows not to have. And all the things that a member of the NW vows not to have.

Continuing the themes of the season they played fast and loose with both the timeline and the weather in Kings Landing. It wasn't clear how long after Dani's death the council meeting was but they it was long enough not only for Sansa and the north army to come south but to round up the council from the seven kingdoms. Although that council appeared to be a little Stark weighted to me. Lot of superdelegates pledged to Bran. Poor Edmund never had a shot. The weather had gone back to spring. Not only no snow but lots of green in the background. They also did an incredible rebuilding job on the King's Landing and the Red Keep in particular. That Davos gets things done.

 

[Been Jammin]

Continuing the themes of the season they played fast and loose with both the timeline and the weather in Kings Landing. It wasn't clear how long after Dani's death the council meeting was but they it was long enough not only for Sansa and the north army to come south but to round up the council from the seven kingdoms. Although that council appeared to be a little Stark weighted to me. Lot of superdelegates pledged to Bran. Poor Edmund never had a shot. The weather had gone back to spring. Not only no snow but lots of green in the background. They also did an incredible rebuilding job on the King's Landing and the Red Keep in particular. That Davos gets things done.

The meeting was in the Dragonpit (where they introduced the zombie to Cersei). The Dragonpit is an unused part of KL, and there would be no reason for fighting to occur there or for Dani to burn it down. I'm not sure how much rebuilding had been done on the RK. Part of it collapsed but parts did not. May have been as simple as cleaning up some blood and dust to use certain portions of it.

 

[SquinkY5786]

I thought Sansa or some one mentionedjohn had been kept for months

 

[Been Jammin]

I thought Sansa or some one mentionedjohn had been kept for months

It was made pretty clear that Tyrion had been a prisoner for quite a long time. We have to assume that the same was true for Jon.

 

[Cowpoke]

I was fine where all of the characters ended up. The rushed nature of this whole season makes those destinations feel off though. Good writing and some more time could easily have made all of that felt perfectly fine. I actually really like Bran being the king, to me it's a throwback to aegon the unlikely (I probably butchered that title). Although not Targaryen by blood, he's so closely tied into them now my taking over as the three-eyed Raven.... I think that is going to make a whole hell of a lot more sense and be more poetic in the books. The show just made it feel like a game of spin the bottle. The entire Bran storyline has been completely screwed up by HBO, just horribly handled since he first went into that cave. I'm wondering if the kid just grew up to be a god-awful actor so they somehow had to work around him having not any dialogue whatsoever, because there could have been some incredible dialog scenes between him samwell, and Tyrion. It just baffles me how you have a guy that can see the past, present and future....and nobody takes advantage of it.

The north being independent make sense, I'm somewhat surprised that Dorne didn't also decide to go independent. The rest of the house is are all beta personalities and most likely dependent on things from the other houses. Not surprised at all that they just fell in line.

I would have loved to seen a scene between Yara and Arya discussing the Open Sea to the west of westeros. since the writers have known that that's what Arya was going to do in the end, they should have created another ironborn character to develop that ends up going along with Arya. If anybody knows anything at all about the Open seas west of westeros, it's the ironborn. Arya maybe a ninja, but she doesn't know s*** about sailing. That just seemed so random.

I'm not sure, is John leading the free folk back home and then returning to the nights watch, or is he abandoning the nights watch to go live with the free folk? I figured the latter at first but I guess that's not necessarily true.

I understand why the unsullied were in control... but the fact that it took Tyrion 20 seconds of talking to take them completely out of control was just sloppy.

Again I'm perfectly fine where everything ended, they just did a horrible job of making it all feel right.

 

[SquinkY5786]

I was fine we're all of the characters ended up. The rushed nature of this whole season makes those destinations feel off though. Good writing and some more time could easily have made all of that felt perfectly fine. I actually really like Bron being the king, to me it's a throwback to aegon the unlikely (I probably butchered that title). Although not Targaryen by blood, he's so closely tied into them now my taking over as the three-eyed Raven.... I think that is going to make a whole hell of a lot more sense and be more poetic in the books. The show just made it feel like a game of spin the bottle. The entire Bran storyline has been completely screwed up by HBO, just horribly handled since he first went into that cave. I'm wondering if the kid gets grew up to be a god-awful actor so they somehow had to work around him having any dialogue whatsoever, because there could have been some incredible dialog scenes between him samwell, and Tyrion.

the north being independent make sense, I'm somewhat surprised that dorne didn't also decide to go independent. The rest of the house is are all beta personalities and most likely dependent on things from the other houses. Not surprised at all that they just fell in line.

I would have loved to seen a scene between Yara and Arya discussing the Open Sea to the west of westeros. since the writers have known that that's what Arya was going to do in the end, they should have created another ironborn character to develop that ends up going along with Arya. If anybody knows anything at all about the Open seas west of westeros, it's the ironborn. Arya maybe a ninja, but she doesn't know s*** about sailing.

I'm not sure, is John leading the free folk back home and then returning to the nights watch, or is he abandoning the nights watch to go live with the free folk? I figured the latter at first but I guess that's not necessarily true.

I understand why the unsullied were in control... but the fact that it took Tyrion 20 seconds of talking to take them completely out of control was just sloppy.

Again I'm perfectly fine where everything ended, they just did a horrible job of making it all feel right.

Yep everything was sudden and no build up at all. All of the characters seemed very out of element after the night king battle.

 

[The Duke]

Seasons 1 thru 4 or 5 my wife and I would talk about episodes and scenes for hours or days (usually stunning dialogue/revelations about an unpredictable character turn, etc)....last couple seasons we just watch the shows mostly in silence then get around for bed.

It’s just too shallow without GRRM. Even if HBO did 20 more episodes, the writing would be torture. It is what it is....a victim of the tapestry GRRM and HBO created when they had a detailed roadmap to follow.

 

[MegaPoke]

It couldn't have been too long since they still hadn't found a Master of Whisperers or Master of Laws. Certainly not enough time for him to go from bedpan cleaner to Grand Maester.

And it still doesn't explain away his common law wife, adopted child and his own child and his role as apparent Lord of Horn Hill. You know, all the things that a Maester vows not to have. And all the things that a member of the NW vows not to have.

He gained all the political clout when his dad and bro got dragoned.

 

[MegaPoke]

This was a great scene. Maybe a little obvious but very well shot and edited.

 

[MegaPoke]

 

[SSS!!!]

This was a great scene. Maybe a little obvious but very well shot and edited.

View embedded media

Incredible stuff. Like I said the first half of the episode was great (aside from the GW teleportation but whatever). Pacing and dialogue was classic GOT. Imagery of that scene and the throne room was unreal. Jaw dropping stuff for sure. Then it cut to black after Drogon flew away. The more I think of that scene in the dragon pits the more ridiculous it becomes in my mind.

 

[CBradSmith]

View embedded media

Hahahaha...... never thought of that.

 

[FMPoke]

I was fine where all of the characters ended up. The rushed nature of this whole season makes those destinations feel off though. Good writing and some more time could easily have made all of that felt perfectly fine. I actually really like Bran being the king, to me it's a throwback to aegon the unlikely (I probably butchered that title). Although not Targaryen by blood, he's so closely tied into them now my taking over as the three-eyed Raven.... I think that is going to make a whole hell of a lot more sense and be more poetic in the books. The show just made it feel like a game of spin the bottle. The entire Bran storyline has been completely screwed up by HBO, just horribly handled since he first went into that cave. I'm wondering if the kid just grew up to be a god-awful actor so they somehow had to work around him having not any dialogue whatsoever, because there could have been some incredible dialog scenes between him samwell, and Tyrion. It just baffles me how you have a guy that can see the past, present and future....and nobody takes advantage of it.

The north being independent make sense, I'm somewhat surprised that Dorne didn't also decide to go independent. The rest of the house is are all beta personalities and most likely dependent on things from the other houses. Not surprised at all that they just fell in line.

I would have loved to seen a scene between Yara and Arya discussing the Open Sea to the west of westeros. since the writers have known that that's what Arya was going to do in the end, they should have created another ironborn character to develop that ends up going along with Arya. If anybody knows anything at all about the Open seas west of westeros, it's the ironborn. Arya maybe a ninja, but she doesn't know s*** about sailing. That just seemed so random.

I'm not sure, is John leading the free folk back home and then returning to the nights watch, or is he abandoning the nights watch to go live with the free folk? I figured the latter at first but I guess that's not necessarily true.

I understand why the unsullied were in control... but the fact that it took Tyrion 20 seconds of talking to take them completely out of control was just sloppy.

Again I'm perfectly fine where everything ended, they just did a horrible job of making it all feel right.

Another point once the north decided they want to be independent how do the northerners still get a vote on who gets to be king or better yet how is Bran still eligible to be King. It seems like you either part of the seven Kingdoms or your not.

 

[Been Jammin]

Another point once the north decided they want to be independent how do the northerners still get a vote on who gets to be king or better yet how is Bran still eligible to be King. It seems like you either part of the seven Kingdoms or your not.

Semantics. Everything else about the final season was so coherent and well written. I think we can let this one confusing point slide.

 

[nathajw]

Here's a graph for every season and episode of GOT according to IMDB.

 

[Been Jammin]

Here's a graph for every season and episode of GOT according to IMDB.

Looks about right. Episode 2 was clearly the high point of the final season, IMO.

I don't remember what the last 2 episodes of Season 6 were, but they really stand out as strong in the post GRRM portion of the show.

 

[Been Jammin]

Looks about right. Episode 2 was clearly the high point of the final season, IMO.

I don't remember what the last 2 episodes of Season 6 were, but they really stand out as strong in the post GRRM portion of the show.

Just looked those two up. Battle of the Bastards and the episode where Cersei blows up all of her enemies in the Sept of Baelor. I'd have to watch them again to evaluate whether they deserve such high marks.

 

[nathajw]

Just looked those two up. Battle of the Bastards and the episode where Cersei blows up all of her enemies in the Sept of Baelor. I'd have to watch them again to evaluate whether they deserve such high marks.

They were both well deserving. When Jon comes out of the carnage and that music plays with the "you're a dead mothe#$#%#%" look he gives Ramsey. Man, I could have ran out my front door and tackled my mailbox into rubble.

 

[CowboyPhil]

Season 6 ep 9 Battle of the Bastards and the followup

 

[CowboyPhil]

My wife binged the whole series and caught up in time for the finale. She actually told me after watching the battle of winterfell that if she had watched it live with me 2 weeks earlier she would have dropped the show. She thought the filming in the dark was just ridiculous and unnecessary after watching the battle of the bastards. Why it could have not been a day time battle so people could see WTF was going on was poor judgement.

As for the finale, it didn't bother me much as far as the story outcome, but I agree with all of the inconsistencies in the production that have been pointed out. Just seemed like they, directors, cast, crew, everyone etc., wanted to get it over with and move on with their lives.

 

[Been Jammin]

They were both well deserving. When Jon comes out of the carnage and that music plays with the "you're a dead mothe#$#%#%" look he gives Ramsey. Man, I could have ran out my front door and tackled my mailbox into rubble.

View embedded media

Just watched that video. Damn, that was good. I forgot that Jon was such a badass. They really turned him into a vagina in the final season.