Future of OSU Wrestling Funding

[OSUBigBadBob]

I don't think that people are truly taking into consideration the massive changes that are being brought and how that will affect even a program like OSU, much less a program like Little Rock. Here are the 3 big questions and some thoughts:

1) What portion of the $20 Million Revenue Share will OSU Wrestling receive? So first issue here is will OSU be able to raise the full 20 million? Let's assume that OSU figures out how to get and distribute the full 20 million (which is still a question). Football gets the vast majority of that money, with men's basketball being the clear second. That leaves 16 other sports to divvy up what? 2 or 3 million? The only good news is that our biggest rivals (Iowa and PSU) are in the same boat with regards to needing the vast majority of the $ to go to football, so will their programs be getting more than ours? Unclear. I hope these numbers become public so we know. This has the chance to save small programs as long as they have dedicated boosters. UALR isn't going to raise 20 million, so they are not going to have 20 million to divvy up. Wrestling boosters $ is going to go almost exclusively to wrestling and there is a potential for these programs to be able to pay more for their players than OSU, tOSU, Iowa and Penn St. will be able to, from THIS pot (see below re: NIL ?). Also, they have already warned of $ cuts to all programs, so are we going to be willing to continue to pay 1 mil for a coach? Not without outside help (like Richison)

2) How many scholarships will we actually give? Under the new rules, we CAN give out up to 30 full scholarships is my understanding. I've been told our current 9.9 are fully endowed, so that would be a great start. HOWEVER, Title IX comes into play. If we expand scholarships for wrestling, we have to increase scholarships to women's sports. And some of our women's sports schollys may not be endowed, so there is a POSSIBILITY they reduce scholarships to women's sports to save $ for the 20 mil pot, in turn reducing scholarships at OSU to wrestling. Although I dont' think it will happen, one IDEA is that if we had big enough wrestling support to fund a women's wrestling team outright, we could add women's scholarships there fairly easily-it would just mean for every $100 someone wanted to support the men's program schollys, 50 would have to go to women's. So this is a real potential issue too.

3) How is outside NIL going to work? The only thing I have heard is that any deals over $600 have to be approved by NCAA. What are those rules going to be? Is Joe Blows Sports Cars still going to be able to pay a player 25K if they want to? I don't see how they keep this from happening with the state of the laws as they are (which is why all this started in the first place. $ = free speech, etc... What happens to collectives? How are they going to outlaw collectives, as long as they are not a part of the university and don't collude with the university (I mean for real don't collude)? With the problems in 1 and 2, this is the real key to the survival of wrestling like it has been. IDK what happens here. I know the university is going to be encouraging donations to the 20 mil pot and notto outside NIL things for sure. We don't have the $ fanbase t these other programs do.

Anyway, just some thoughts looking toward next year and what may happen re: Transfers, etc...

 

[west2east]

Glad you made this it's own thread. Great post. So many questions still need to be answered. I know coaches are hoping and some have heard that the 30 man roster might be trickled down and not be immediate

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

@west2east you said you think Iowa may bump up scholarships. If NIL really goes away somehow, this could really hurt OSU because we don't have the $ that Iowa does. We did a great job several years ago because of a massive donor and endowed a ton of sports scholarships with matching donations, but those $ have to come from somewhere. OSU is going to struggle to raise the 20 million as it is and a lot of that money is going to come from budget cuts to programs, which usually = less scholarships. So we will see.

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

Glad you made this it's own thread. Great post. So many questions still need to be answered. I know coaches are hoping and some have heard that the 30 man roster might be trickled down and not be immediate

yeah, when you think about title XII its not as easy as just increasing wrestling. You got to increase volleyball or something else too, which is $$$$

 

[west2east]

@west2east you said you think Iowa may bump up scholarships. If NIL really goes away somehow, this could really hurt OSU because we don't have the $ that Iowa does. We did a great job several years ago because of a massive donor and endowed a ton of sports scholarships with matching donations, but those $ have to come from somewhere. OSU is going to struggle to raise the 20 million as it is and a lot of that money is going to come from budget cuts to programs, which usually = scholarships. So we will see.

That's definitely doesn't sound promising for Oklahoma st. Is the wrestling program endowed? If not that would be my 1st move if I'm Chad

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

That's definitely doesn't sound promising for Oklahoma st. Is the wrestling program endowed? If not that would be my 1st move if I'm Chad

9.9 scholarships are endowed. If the program itself is, that's not public knowledge and i'd be surprised.

 

[west2east]

yeah, when you think about title XII its not as easy as just increasing wrestling. You got to increase volleyball or something else too, which is $$$$

Yes I agree and it's sounding like revenue sharing might need to be split evenly for Title 9 as well.

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

Yes I agree and it's sounding like revenue sharing might need to be split evenly for Title 9 as well.

I have HEARD that is not the case. And with football I don't see how it could be. If so, guess some softball players about to get PAID, lol.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

What’s more realistic?

1) everyone gets PAID but we lose every sport but football and basketball (and then women’s basketball, softball, soccer to keep it even).

2) we realize this system doesn’t work, football breaks away to create a new entity (RIP) and every other college sport goes back to pre NIL madness but with a revenue sharing option much smaller than 20 million.

I feel like no matter how we spin these conversions, the only conclusion I come to is that this is all so effing stupid and will never work. I also don’t believe we would just end Olympic sports. So there has to be middle ground somewhere. Or maybe I’m just jaded.

And get off my lawn!

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

What’s more realistic?

1) everyone gets PAID but we lose every sport but football and basketball (and then women’s basketball, softball, soccer to keep it even).

2) we realize this system doesn’t work, football breaks away to create a new entity (RIP) and every other college sport goes back to pre NIL madness but with a revenue sharing option much smaller than 20 million.

I feel like no matter how we spin these conversions, the only conclusion I come to is that this is all so effing stupid and will never work. I also don’t believe we would just end Olympic sports. So there has to be middle ground somewhere. Or maybe I’m just jaded.

And get off my lawn!

So let’s say worst case scenario is 1. I agree with you we don’t just quit. Do Olympic sports end up being club sports for everyone? Hope not but 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[chasepollard]

Thanks @OSUBigBadBob

 

[west2east]

I have HEARD that is not the case. And with football I don't see how it could be. If so, guess some softball players about to get PAID, lol.

Feds: Title IX will apply to college revenue share

The U.S. Department of Education said Title IX rules will apply to future revenue dollars payments that schools share with college athletes but declined to offer guidance on how schools should distribute the money between men and women.

www.espn.com

Now I'm not sure what the future of the department of education is but that's what they said. It's my understanding that if the department of education is done away with that Title 9 since it's a federal law would be moved to another department for them to enforce

 

[chasepollard]

I know it’s not likely, but these Wrestling Programs need to work together.

I’m not sure what operating costs of arenas and programs are, so most of this is just a shot in the dark.

A governing board that helps develop and enforce rules regarding money earning development.

Schools can become less encumbered budget wise and Wrestling eats what it kills.

On duals, share profits. Give visiting schools 20% of the net based on average home attendance.

Events will be promoted and money flows back to the program.

Example: Utah Valley has an average home attendance of 5k. They travel to OSU and they get 20% of the take based on 5k of the 9k that shows up.

Sponsorships to National Duals (already being done) and NCAAs goes back to the schools in some form.

Other events like Cliff Keen pay schools to accept their invite.

I know it’s probably very imperfect, but it’s my opinion we have to get creative, aggressive and create some parity.

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

I know it’s not likely, but these Wrestling Programs need to work together.

I’m not sure what operating costs of arenas and programs are, so most of this is just a shot in the dark.

A governing board that helps develop and enforce rules regarding money earning development.

Schools can become less encumbered budget wise and Wrestling eats what it kills.

On duals, share profits. Give visiting schools 20% of the net based on average home attendance.

Events will be promoted and money flows back to the program.

Example: Utah Valley has an average home attendance of 5k. They travel to OSU and they get 20% of the take based on 5k of the 9k that shows up.

Sponsorships to National Duals (already being done) and NCAAs goes back to the schools in some form.

Other events like Cliff Keen pay schools to accept their invite.

I know it’s probably very imperfect, but it’s my opinion we have to get creative, aggressive and create some parity.

The problem with that is that even the big schools are going to be struggling with financing for Olympic sports. How is OSU going to give up 40k per home dual ($25 avg ticket price x 8,000/.2)? They need that money just to fund the program since they get zero or next to zero TV money like football and basketball do.

 

[west2east]

I know it’s not likely, but these Wrestling Programs need to work together.

I’m not sure what operating costs of arenas and programs are, so most of this is just a shot in the dark.

A governing board that helps develop and enforce rules regarding money earning development.

Schools can become less encumbered budget wise and Wrestling eats what it kills.

On duals, share profits. Give visiting schools 20% of the net based on average home attendance.

Events will be promoted and money flows back to the program.

Example: Utah Valley has an average home attendance of 5k. They travel to OSU and they get 20% of the take based on 5k of the 9k that shows up.

Sponsorships to National Duals (already being done) and NCAAs goes back to the schools in some form.

Other events like Cliff Keen pay schools to accept their invite.

I know it’s probably very imperfect, but it’s my opinion we have to get creative, aggressive and create some parity.

Wrestling is always so reactive and not proactive. We want to wait until a program is dropped and then save it. Planning ahead isn't something wrestling does well. I wish wrestling programs would work together but I don't see that happening. I like the brainstorming you did there

 

[chasepollard]

Wrestling is always so reactive and not proactive. We want to wait until a program is dropped and then save it. Planning ahead isn't something wrestling does well. I wish wrestling programs would work together but I don't see that happening. I like the brainstorming you did there

I know, it’s maddening!

I don’t even know where to start in regards to putting together a “board?”

In the right circumstances (delivered by the board) schools would have little choice but to work together.

If Iowa is told, you’re giving up 20% of 5k to Rutgers, guess what…they give it up or they don’t get to play. Same goes for Cael Almighty.

It could even get to a point where said earnings and board navigate money well enough to endow every school.

So all schools pay a certain percent of earnings to board/association and a guaranteed and outlined portion goes to operating the board and the rest goes to school endowments.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

So let’s say worst case scenario is 1. I agree with you we don’t just quit. Do Olympic sports end up being club sports for everyone? Hope not but 🤷🏻‍♂️

Well in worst case scenario, no they’re just gone and nothing can be done.

Another outcome to option 1 happening could be that each Olympic sport takes its top teams that’s can financially produce enough together and make their own league.

Basically the b10 plus a few big12/ACC schools create a 16-20 team wrestling league of their own. Sign their own tv deal and split the payout but otherwise has to be able to fund their own program. Not sure if you get to 16 honestly but I would hope.

 

[Travis25]

Well in worst case scenario, no they’re just gone and nothing can be done.

Another outcome to option 1 happening could be that each Olympic sport takes its top teams that’s can financially produce enough together and make their own league.

Basically the b10 plus a few big12/ACC schools create a 16-20 team wrestling league of their own. Sign their own tv deal and split the payout but otherwise has to be able to fund their own program. Not sure if you get to 16 honestly but I would hope.

I agree with this take, except that I do not see the entire Big 10 as worthy of fitting in a wrestling super conference. They have their share of loser programs. It would be interesting to rank the 12/14/16 strongest programs.

The net result of all these changes will likely be that teams need to step up their entertainment value to survive. Gone are the days when OSU/PSU/Iowa have the luxury of being able to schedule snoozer duals against the Michigan States and Air Forces of the world.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

I agree with this take, except that I do not see the entire Big 10 as worthy of fitting in a wrestling super conference.

I agree, just didnt specify! It’s not even a “do they belong question” though in terms of how great the program history is. It’s also going to be “will they guarantee the finances to keep it afloat”.

Here’s my shortlist. * indicates skepticism

OSU
ISU
MIZZ
WVU*
ASU*
OU*

NCSU
VT

PSU
IOWA
OSU
MICH
NEB
MINN
ILL
PUR
Rutgers

Cornell*
OrSt*

 

[dvpoke25]

The whole thing pisses me off because I don’t want any “secondary” sport being cut. In my opinion, we need to quit acting like the football players and basketball players are student athletes. They are going to be paid employees for the university’s professional sports teams. Quit funding their scholarships. That will make up some of the money. I’m extremely jaded by what college athletics has become. The NIL and conference realignment era has ruined college sports.

 

[lookleft goright]

The whole thing pisses me off because I don’t want any “secondary” sport being cut. In my opinion, we need to quit acting like the football players and basketball players are student athletes. They are going to be paid employees for the university’s professional sports teams. Quit funding their scholarships. That will make up some of the money. I’m extremely jaded by what college athletics has become. The NIL and conference realignment era has ruined college sports.

I am with you there. I probably will stop following college athletics shortly and may even quit following wrestling. It is getting to the point of only a few good programs and the rich cannabalizing the poor. How did we get to the point where getting degree and having the privilege of playing sports in college was irrelevant and making money is the most important thing for college kids.
I guess we could say that when you have a bureaucracy as big as the NCAA and most universities, these are the types of things that happen and the decisions they come up with.
Also, I can see a lot of schools going to a different system and maybe having their athletic programs more like D3. At least some of the purity of college athletics would be here again.

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

I guess we could say that when you have a bureaucracy as big as the NCAA and most universities

While the NCAA is a huge problem, I think the issue here lies way more with society personally. In regards to how we got here (first part of your statement).

 

[chasepollard]

The whole thing pisses me off because I don’t want any “secondary” sport being cut. In my opinion, we need to quit acting like the football players and basketball players are student athletes. They are going to be paid employees for the university’s professional sports teams. Quit funding their scholarships. That will make up some of the money. I’m extremely jaded by what college athletics has become. The NIL and conference realignment era has ruined college sports.

Thank you!

This may not be popular, but it's time to call Football and Basketball what it is...a bully.

If they are so important to a budget (and they are if they don't suck or have an idiot at the helm calling fans poor) lets really scrutinize their P/L in regards to the budgets. If they are making 200 million, but it's costing 220 million, something is wrong.

TV networks and execs are getting rich and other people are suffering. The inefficient variable here has to be found and broken.

 

[west2east]

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/19/college-sports-programs-valuations.html

 

[west2east]

Thank you!

This may not be popular, but it's time to call Football and Basketball what it is...a bully.

If they are so important to a budget (and they are if they don't suck or have an idiot at the helm calling fans poor) lets really scrutinize their P/L in regards to the budgets. If they are making 200 million, but it's costing 220 million, something is wrong.

TV networks and execs are getting rich and other people are suffering. The inefficient variable here has to be found and broken.

I believe around 60% of D1 football programs make a profit. Currently football and basketball profits fund all the other sports. No other sports make money

 

[chasepollard]

I believe around 60% of D1 football programs make a profit. Currently football and basketball profits fund all the other sports. No other sports make money

Which brings us to the inefficient variable in this problem...who is making the money?

Sports in general is billions of dollars generated. College sports has to be a large portion of that one would think?

 

[OSUBigBadBob]

I believe around 60% of D1 football programs make a profit. Currently football and basketball profits fund all the other sports. No other sports make money

Basketball only profits because of TV rights to march madness. But I doubt we LOSE much for wrestling at OSU unless you don't count regular donations to the program.

 

[chasepollard]

Basketball only profits because of TV rights to march madness. But I doubt we LOSE much for wrestling at OSU unless you don't count regular donations to the program.

I was told in the past that we do stay in the black in Wrestling which was presented as a huge deal becuase the AD doesn't have to worry about certain budget allocations when it comes to Wrestling.

This discussion was being had in regards to why we aren't jumping into the Womens Wrestling arena. If we were to do that, we would most definitely see us fall into the red and put crosshairs on the Program (which I thought was ridiculous.)

 

[Chasingthirty-five]

If we were to do that, we would most definitely see us fall into the red and put crosshairs on the Program (which I thought was ridiculous.)

This has been reported by multiple people over the last two years or so and makes perfect sense.

 

[west2east]

Looks like for fiscal year 2024 Oklahoma st made a $1.2 million profit from athletics .