Federal Judge: Kind of Appears to be a Witch Hunt to me

[07pilt]

you must look up passing yards gained or in gundy’s case best hair to see who won the game

popular vote again is libtard level intelligence and talking point

it just fits

This talking point has been so thoroughly covered in conservative media that the stupid rubes among you parrot it back any time you hear the trigger words "electoral college" with out thinking critically about if it even applies to the situation at hand.

 

[trapped_in_tx]

Bunch a cranky pants ITT.

Is everybody missing out on happy hour or something?

 

[JimmyBob]

Bunch a cranky pants ITT.

Is everybody missing out on happy hour or something?

Speaking of popping a top, believe I will!

 

[Medic007]

Read for yourself the actual appointment letter establishing the appointment and jurisdiction of Mueller, coupled with the relevant statute/regulation that provides more detail about how Mueller/Rosenstein can proceed with ANY case discovered/uncovered during the investigation. The Judge is "way" wrong with his opinion. The judge doesn't get to determine who tries the case, the law is quite clear that call belongs 100% with Rod Rosenstein.

There is virtually zero doubt in my mind that Mueller secured the consent of Rosenstein as he is/was required to do so by the provisions of the appointment letter and the Statute/Regulations. Just as he did so with the Cohen case, which Rosenstein subsequently assigned to the US Attorney's Office in the Southern District of NY.

If they Judge were to dismiss on these grounds, I have no doubt believing he would get slammed hard by the Appellate court and likely removed from the case.


ORDER NO. 3915-2017 APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE 2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS

By virtue of the authority vested in me as Acting Attorney General, including 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515, in order to discharge my responsibility to provide supervision and management of the Department of Justice, and to ensure a full and thorough investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election, I hereby order as follows:

(a) Robert S. Mueller III is appointed to serve as Special Counsel for the United States Department of Justice. (b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Comey in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;

and (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation;

and (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)-(c)

If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters. (d) Sections 600.4 through 600. l0 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

Signed Rod J. Rosenstein, Acting Attorney General - 5/17/17


This is what 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a)-(c)says on the topic

28 CFR 600.4 - Jurisdiction.

§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.

(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.


To believe that the Judge's position is correct, you would have to ignore the very clear law on this topic and also to believe that his authority to prosecute crimes (with the consent of the DOJ) is less than the average US Attorney. To quote that well known trial attorney, Vincent Gambini, Esq: "Everything that guy just said was bullshit!"

It's nothing short of amazing that you were able to get your hands on something Congress and Judge Ellis can't. Bravo with vibrato and bravado.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Speaking of popping a top, believe I will!

It’s noon somewhere!

 

[squeak]

This talking point has been so thoroughly covered in conservative media that the stupid rubes among you parrot it back any time you hear the trigger words "electoral college" with out thinking critically about if it even applies to the situation at hand.

What did communists use to light their homes before candles?


Electricity.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

What did communists use to light their homes before candles?


Electricity.

 

[hollywood]

It's nothing short of amazing that you were able to get your hands on something Congress and Judge Ellis can't. Bravo with vibrato and bravado.

Dude, did you not read the thread in the non-sports board where Cowboy JD showed how far off the rails a judge can go? No doubt that the judge has this information available to him, but whether he's following it or not is an entirely different matter.

I am reminded of the old saw from my Con Law professor: "Always remember that Judges are just attorneys who have politicians for friends."

Like I said, you have the judges analysis and opinion and you have mine, let's see who turns out to be right. (PS: I would not be surprised to see a motion briefing this issue filed with the Judge next week from the DOJ, reiterating that the enabling letter and DOJ regulations leave the discretion of who gets to prosecute, the Special Counsel of US Attorney's office, is ENTIRELY within Rod Rosenstein's power as Acting US Atty General.)

The power does not lie with this judge, no matter how much he may huff and puff, as the Enabling Letter establishing Jurisdiction and the CFR Regulations clearly establish. If, I turn out to be wrong on this I will admit it here on this board for all to see. This wouldn't be the first Federal Judge to be completely wrong about the law on a particular issue.

 

[Medic007]

Dude, did you not read the thread in the non-sports board where Cowboy JD showed how far off the rails a judge can go?

Nope. I understand how far off the rails a judge can go. I also understand how far off the rails a prosecutor can go. Mueller doesn't have a squeaky clean track record. His handling of the anthrax case was a monumental embarrassment for the FBI.

I'm also not foolish enough to believe the enabling letter covers everything. The details of the heavily redacted initial scope memo that is being sought by Ellis and Congress are being withheld for some reason that could be legit, or could simply be more DOJ slime.

Thanks for the post, but it answers nothing about this for me.

 

[CowboyJD]

Could it depend on whether Meuller used FISA vs Title 3 for his investigation? Or nah?

View embedded media

Nah....word of advice, maybe consider stop considering the validity of legal arguments from anonymous twitter ragtag bands of misfits (their description, not mine) of dubious...nay, non-existent legal credentials.

 

[CowboyJD]

worst case

mueller is so far outside the scope of his investigation, grasping and reaching at anything and anyone he can leverage into ratting out trump not for truths sake but to mitigate their own circumstance

that’s the worst case

this is the democratically elected president
best to have him nailed to the cross with irrefutable treasonous activity

not some street level drug kingpin type bullshit case

which is what this looks withthe fbi and doj covering their ass to date

Counter-argument, if Manafort violated the law he deserves to get prosecuted.

 

[Rdcldad]

Agree on the popular vote being a completely irrelevant talking point as to who won the election. However, he is correct that the President isn't elected "democratically", in the strictest reading of the meaning of that word. And that is a good thing.

i disagree with your assessment of democratically elected

1citizens participated
2 the election was free fair and done according to rule of law

 

[Rdcldad]

Counter-argument, if Manafort violated the law he deserves to get prosecuted.

and to that end if mueller chooses to run a dragnet

mannaforts prosecution in no way shape or form should cross thread back into muellers scope

no co-mingling

 

[CowboyJD]

and to that end if mueller chooses to run a dragnet

mannaforts prosecution in no way shape or form should cross thread back into muellers scope

no co-mingling

Says who? What law or constitutional provision that says the violations of the law by a known associate of someone else can’t be leveraged to try to convince the to narc on that someone else?

In other words...you sleep with mangy dogs, you’re liable to have to deal with their fleas.

 

[CowboyJD]

Would a new U.S.A. offer Paulie cooperation deals with Mueller, or is that phase of Paulie's life pretty much over if Mueller is kicked off?

New AUSA/USA could offer Manafort cooperation deals as well.

 

[CowboyJD]

and to that end if mueller chooses to run a dragnet

mannaforts prosecution in no way shape or form should cross thread back into muellers scope

no co-mingling

Also, gotta say....you’re presently sounding like someone that is REALLY worried Manafort has some dirt on Trump. I’ll go further...if TRUMP violated the law (Russia/collusion related or not), he deserves to be prosecuted.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Also, gotta say....you’re presently sounding like someone that is REALLY worried Manafort has some dirt on Trump. I’ll go further...if TRUMP violated the law (Russia/collusion related or not), he deserves to be prosecuted.

No way. We are in too deep on too much shit right now. Pence cannot maga and there is a high probability he does it with male escorts.

Trump should just pardon himself, fire mueller, and Rosenstein, re stock the fbi with vindictive and politically motivated conservatives. They should then make watergate look like a high school prank. I’m ready to take advantage of our turn in this game.

 

[Rdcldad]

Also, gotta say....you’re presently sounding like someone that is REALLY worried Manafort has some dirt on Trump. I’ll go further...if TRUMP violated the law (Russia/collusion related or not), he deserves to be prosecuted.

so there is no need for any sort of scope or framework to muellers investigation?

fund a dossier

a special prosecutor gets carte blanche

that’s dangerous
that’s my concern

cause now it goes high stick harry

 

[CowboyJD]

so there is no need for any sort of scope or framework to muellers investigation?

fund a dossier

a special prosecutor gets carte blanche

that’s dangerous
that’s my concern

cause now it goes high stick harry

The special prosecutor doesn’t have carte blanche. He is constrained by both Rosenstein (Trump appointee, btw) and the Constitution.

There you go....concern addressed.

 

[imprimis]

In the meantime, two more of the FBI upper echelon have decided to quit the FBI. Lisa Page and GC James Baker likely got a preview of coming attractions in the IG report and hauled ass. Or, maybe Page wanted to get an arms length distance away from getting her "honey where she got her money".

 

[Rdcldad]

The special prosecutor doesn’t have carte blanche. He is constrained by both Rosenstein (Trump appointee, btw) and the Constitution.

There you go....concern addressed.

sorry an unleashed prosecutir and plyabke constitution don’t cut the mustard

nothing but a level headed federal judge addresses my concern

“I don’t see what relationship this indictment has with anything the special counsel is authorized to investigate,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis in the Eastern District of Virginia said.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

So Mueller is exceeding the lawful scope of his job, and that can't be allowed. Okay - accept that at face value. It's not true, but accept it. Then, later, the judge criticized the special prosecutor for referring the Cohen matter (which appears to be about an American porn star payment --- irrelevant to the Russia stuff) to another U.S.A. office, and criticizes them for that, too? Kind of seems like they're damned if they do, damned if they don't with this guy.

and to that end if mueller chooses to run a dragnet

mannaforts prosecution in no way shape or form should cross thread back into muellers scope

no co-mingling

Says who? What law or constitutional provision that says the violations of the law by a known associate of someone else can’t be leveraged to try to convince the to narc on that someone else?

RD enlighten us please. Where did you get that?

 

[Rdcldad]

In the meantime, two more of the FBI upper echelon have decided to quit the FBI. Lisa Page and GC James Baker likely got a preview of coming attractions in the IG report and hauled ass. Or, maybe Page wanted to get an arms length distance away from getting her "honey where she got her money".

cause obviously they’re real concerned about even handed investigating and shaping the constitution

 

[Rdcldad]

So Mueller is exceeding the lawful scope of his job, and that can't be allowed. Okay - accept that at face value. It's not true, but accept it. Then, later, the judge criticized the special prosecutor for referring the Cohen matter (which appears to be about an American porn star payment --- irrelevant to the Russia stuff) to another U.S.A. office, and criticizes them for that, too? Kind of seems like they're damned if they do, damned if they don't with this guy.





RD enlighten us please. Where did you get that?

your post is choppy

but lemme ask you a question

you ever dealt with an audit and they found some bullshit to justify their time and you’ve just written a check out of expediency?

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

your post is choppy

but lemme ask you a question

you ever dealt with an audit and they found some bullshit to justify their time and you’ve just written a check out of expediency?

No. I'm squared away, I do it right the first time, if there's a problem I address it. If there's not, I am not paying ransom for a number of reasons, the first being the auditor needs to know next time they should anticipate spending significant time and money trying to squeeze something out of me that I do not owe. In my experience salaried government employees generally try to avoid gratuitous conflict and extra work. The ones that don't are typically inexperienced and quickly learn they need to be careful what they ask for.

The analogy is also flawed. We are talking about violation of criminal statutes and basic loyalty matters here.

My fervent hope is that everyone is closely scrutinized. Biff, because there is so much probable cause, lies, and criminality in his orbit. Plus both Biff and the FBI just generally always deserve it. I can tell some stories about federal law enforcement, too. Not stuff they have done per the Washington Post, but what I have seen with my own eyes. Here in Oklahoma. You have to understand something. This is one giant wet dream for me. Mueller and the Department of Justice are not going away. They are, in their eyes, fighting an existential battle. Biff will not do the right thing. He is a criminal.

Who do you pull for when a buzzard gets a tick?

 

[CowboyJD]

sorry an unleashed prosecutir and plyabke constitution don’t cut the mustard

nothing but a level headed federal judge addresses my concern

“I don’t see what relationship this indictment has with anything the special counsel is authorized to investigate,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis in the Eastern District of Virginia said.

Federal judges are responsible for enforcing the Constitution (I appreciate your schtick now, but show a little respect at least there). When people disagree with a federal judge, we heard “activism”. When people agree with a federal judge, they call the level headed and sensible.

 

[NZ Poke]

Incidentally....

Source: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018...n-investigation-anti-trump-lovebird-lisa-page

 

[Rdcldad]

Federal judges are responsible for enforcing the Constitution (I appreciate your schtick now, but show a little respect at least there). When people disagree with a federal judge, we heard “activism”. When people agree with a federal judge, they call the level headed and sensible.

this board is great for gauging peeps perspectives

show a little respect

good one

 

[CowboyJD]

this board is great for gauging peeps perspectives

show a little respect

good one

Perhaps we are miscommunicating here. I think we probably are.

My “show a little respect” statement was referring to the use of “little c” on Constitution by you....not showing respect to me or my perspective.

I’m personally due from you only the respect you deem I have earned.

 

[trapped_in_tx]

Perhaps we are miscommunicating here. I think we probably are.

My “show a little respect” statement was referring to the use of “little c” on Constitution by you....not showing respect to me or my perspective.

I’m personally due from you only the respect you deem I have earned.

Perhaps a pertinent question is whether RD/dbf has ever capitalized anything he's typed on this site.

It's possible but the odds aren't good.

But I'll also admit to being confused by this entire conversation.

 

[blbronco]

Counter-argument, if Manafort violated the law he deserves to get prosecuted.

I am curious as to what percentage of current politicians at the federal level, or those anticipating running for federal office have not committed crimes. I am also curious as t how you believe they should be investigated, if you believe they should be investigated. I am also curious as to what pretense (context maybe?) this should happen. I could expand beyond elected officials to include appointed individuals, including those investigating this mess.

I have no dog in the hunt, so I am genuinely curious about this. It is easy to say “they broke the law, therefore they should be prosecuted.” I do not disagree with that, but I disagree with how this is goimg down from what I am able to see. Granted, I know little about what is going on behind the scenes.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Granted, I know little about what is going on behind the scenes.

Mueller did that by design. For as much as already know, there’s more that isn’t known that he’s still investigating. All these “leaks” we hear about are likely far closer to Trump’s inner circle than he wants to believe.

 

[blbronco]

Mueller did that by design. For as much as already know, there’s more that isn’t known that he’s still investigating. All these “leaks” we hear about are likely far closer to Trump’s inner circle than he wants to believe.

I have no doubt that leaks from every angle are by design, it still does not sway me. I am on record that I see Trump as a total sleazebag p.o.s. I will add that I do not trust Mueller any more than I do Trump.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

I have no doubt that leaks from every angle are by design, it still does not sway me. I am on record that I see Trump as a total sleazebag p.o.s. I will add that I do not trust Mueller any more than I do Trump.

Why would you not trust Mueller?

 

[HanAholeSolo2.0]

Why would you not trust Mueller?

why would you?

 

[blbronco]

Why would you not trust Mueller?

Do you believe him to have no effective bias, to be impartial, and non-partisan? Did you feel the same about Ken Starr during the Clinton investigation?

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

why would you?

- Army Ranger captain
- Vietnam platoon leader, awarded bronze star for valor for rescuing wounded soldier after half of platoon became casualties
- Purple Heart for gunshot wound to thigh, returned to lead platoon after injury
- J.D. University of Virginia
- 12 years in US Attorney’s offices
- US Department of Justice, one year became head of criminal division (Noriega, Lockerbie Pan Am, John Gotti, etc.)
- Appointed by GWB as FBI Director (unanimous confirmation)


Just a few reasons...

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Do you believe him to have no effective bias, to be impartial, and non-partisan? Did you feel the same about Ken Starr during the Clinton investigation?

He’s a Republican appointed by a Republican Trump appointee (Rosenstein). If there any bias there, it would’ve manifested itself to the right.

 

[Medic007]

- Army Ranger captain
- Vietnam platoon leader, awarded bronze star for valor for rescuing wounded soldier after half of platoon became casualties
- Purple Heart for gunshot wound to thigh, returned to lead platoon after injury
- J.D. University of Virginia
- 12 years in US Attorney’s offices
- US Department of Justice, one year became head of criminal division (Noriega, Lockerbie Pan Am, John Gotti, etc.)
- Appointed by GWB as FBI Director (unanimous confirmation)


Just a few reasons...

You might take a peek at his track record. Botched anthrax investigation, Hell's Angels fiasco, etc. He's not the infallible immortal that you lefties portray him to be.

 

[Medic007]

He’s a Republican appointed by a Republican Trump appointee (Rosenstein). If there any bias there, it would’ve manifested itself to the right.

I don't think you understand that muh Republican means very little to anti-Trumpers.