End Game (spoiler thread)

[TheRedSon]

A thousand different things to hit.

Tony Stark still has all the best lines. Build-a-Bear and Lebowski... Damn.

There are two things people have complained about this movie in reviews I’d like to hit right out of the box.

1) Time Travel theory isn’t consistent. This is easy... It’s a movie. Deal with it or build a time machine and prove it. Otherwise I’ve got all of 30 seconds to give a damn.

2) Captain America could never... Why not? Because it’s not consistent with his character? Because he’d still have to fight every bully the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s could throw at him? Here’s a guess... He grew up some time between snap #1 and leading therapy groups. In 2023 Captain America’s greatest power was that he’d already dealt with losing everyone he knew and could walk others through it. The Steve Rogers that can’t stand a bully is already a different man than we’ve known. Remember when SW showed all of the Avengers their greatest fears in AoU? What was it Cap saw? Was it a world with no war? We allow Stark the room to grow into a hero capable of self sacrifice. Why can’t we allow Rogers to grow into a man that can set aside the need for conflict? Thanos is still a problem with only one answer, but Rogers avoids physical violence in this movie every step he can. That elevator scene... So good. I was geared up and ready for round two. The first time around was one of the best super hero fight scenes. 2011 Rogers would have walked out of that elevator the only man standing or died trying. This solution was far better, and that Rogers, the one we spent 2 hours and 58 minutes watching could retire and live a normal life.

 

[Been Jammin]

Just saw it. Loved it. Agree 100% with both points. Throw in that the writers needed to get rid of the old guard, and I like the Cap finish a lot better than had they simply killed off 3 of the originals.

There were a few cheesy lines and eye roll moments, but all in all, I found it to be very satisfying.

 

[CowboyPhil]

But cheesy lines are what have made a lot of these movies good. It's that they don't take themselves so seriously that they can pull off cheesy lines and the audience rolls with it. DC heroes seem to portrayed too seriously and then try to crack a joke in the middle of a fight and just falls flat.

Same with the time travel stuff. Who cares and really knows for 100% time travel theory, as I don't think anyone has actually invented a time machine.

I go to these movies to be entertained. And entertained I was.

 

[AC_Exotic]

I can't wait for the next Guardians. Since it looks like Thor is along for the ride the way he and Quill play off each other could be epic.

 

[Been Jammin]

I can't wait for the next Guardians. Since it looks like Thor is along for the ride the way he and Quill play off each other could be epic.

Going to have to wait a few years. I just read that since Gunn is directing, and he is currently working on directing SSquad 2, he can't move on to GoTG3 until he is finished. Article said that late 2021 would be the earliest for GoTG 2022 is probably more realistic.

 

[SquinkY5786]

Only complaint is how they used the Hulk. So throughout all the movies the Hulk is unstoppable. Then in infinity war thanos easily dispatches of him at the beginning and hulks afraid to come out during the entire movie. You think you are in for a hulk redemption in this movie and they really don’t feature his fighting beside him having the second snap. He goes from maybe the most powerful being to just kind of meh.

 

[Been Jammin]

But cheesy lines are what have made a lot of these movies good

There are two types of cheesy lines. The dad joke kind, which I like. And, the ones where they throw in something meant to be dramatic that feels forced.

 

[Renegade Bullet]

Where was Vision?

 

[mseabolt]

Where was Vision?

He died in IW .. not turned to ash

 

[Been Jammin]

Where was Vision?

He was in it. Sort of.

When Howard Stark is getting in his car, he has a conversation with Jarvis.

Jarvis' consciousness was somehow incorporated into a computer system by Howard (or Tony). That system was later incorporated into Vision by Ultron.

Vision, Gamora, Heimdall and Loki were all killed before "the snap", so they did not come back to life when Hulk snapped his fingers. (but, Gamora from the past is likely now wandering around somewhere in the present).

 

[SquinkY5786]

He was in it. Sort of.

When Howard Stark is getting in his car, he has a conversation with Jarvis.

Jarvis' consciousness was somehow incorporated into a computer system by Howard (or Tony). That system was later incorporated into Vision by Ultron.

Vision, Gamora, Heimdall and Loki were all killed before "the snap", so they did not come back to life when Hulk snapped his fingers. (but, Gamora from the past is likely now wandering around somewhere in the present).

How does Loki escaping with tesseract affect things

 

[CowboyJD]

How does Loki escaping with tesseract affect things

He’s going to have a show where he travels through time on the new DC streaming thing. Will probably reference it there.

 

[Renegade Bullet]

He was in it. Sort of.

When Howard Stark is getting in his car, he has a conversation with Jarvis.

Jarvis' consciousness was somehow incorporated into a computer system by Howard (or Tony). That system was later incorporated into Vision by Ultron.

Vision, Gamora, Heimdall and Loki were all killed before "the snap", so they did not come back to life when Hulk snapped his fingers. (but, Gamora from the past is likely now wandering around somewhere in the present).

If pre-Gamora is still around why isn’t pre-Vision still around?

Clearly I am not wrapping my head around all this stuff

 

[SquinkY5786]

If pre-Gamora is still around why isn’t pre-Vision still around?

Clearly I am not wrapping my head around all this stuff

Pre gamora time traveled to their future time. Vision didnt

 

[CowboyPhil]

He’s going to have a show where he travels through time on the new DC streaming thing. Will probably reference it there.

The tesseract is all powerful as Loki will not only be traversing through time, but also comic book universes!

jk

 

[Been Jammin]

If pre-Gamora is still around why isn’t pre-Vision still around?

Clearly I am not wrapping my head around all this stuff

Easiest way to explain it is that they could have gone to the past before Thanos snapped his fingers, and brought back a living Vision from the past, but they did not.

The Gamora that racked Quill is Gamora from 7 years ago, who never met him before. She might have turned to ash when Stark snapped his fingers (like everyone else Thanos transported from 7 years ago to the present), but probably not.

 

[Been Jammin]

He’s going to have a show where he travels through time on the new DC streaming thing. Will probably reference it there.

You mean Disney, not DC.

 

[AC_Exotic]

You mean Disney, not DC.

Are any of you guys going to sign up for the service?

 

[cowboyclint25]

Do you have kids? lol

 

[Been Jammin]

Are any of you guys going to sign up for the service?

Thinking about it. Some of the new content sounds like it is worth seeing, and I would like to do an MCU rewatch at some point, but it is too much work to track down each movie as things currently stand. Will probably sign up and try it out for a while.

 

[CowboyJD]

You mean Disney, not DC.

Yeah. Exactly.

 

[CowboyJD]

Are any of you guys going to sign up for the service?

Yeah. I am.

Already have DC Unlimited for their shows and comic books.

Too many Marvel and Star Wars shows coming to the Disney service for me to not.

 

[TheRedSon]

Children - check
Star Wars - check
Marvel - check
Pixar - check

Yeah. Seems like I’m getting it.

Back to End Game now?

 

[Been Jammin]

So, I have been thinking about the time travel in EG, reading about it, discussing it with other fans.

I have come to the conclusion that if you want to find problems with it you can. If you want to rationalize and explain those problems away, it can be done.

Probably best to just not think about it too much, take it for what it is, and enjoy it. The more you break it down, the more confusing it gets, and you can always follow up with a "but, what if...."?...

I look forward to seeing it for a second time.

 

[TheRedSon]

Yeah. The only theory that makes much sense to me is there’s always been two Steve Rogers in the MCU timeline and old Peggy didn’t tell him. The only problem I see with that is then what did Rogers do with himself during the Cold War? He kept his head down is my explanation. Here himself exist without sticking his nose into every conflict he could. He faced his fear.

Alright, now someone explain to me how Stark nabbed the stones. I still can’t figure that out.

 

[PDT816]

Yeah. The only theory that makes much sense to me is there’s always been two Steve Rogers in the MCU timeline and old Peggy didn’t tell him. The only problem I see with that is then what did Rogers do with himself during the Cold War? He kept his head down is my explanation. Here himself exist without sticking his nose into every conflict he could. He faced his fear.

Alright, now someone explain to me how Stark nabbed the stones. I still can’t figure that out.

The new gauntlet was Stark"s tech. He would have been able to control it and nab the stones from one glove to another during the melee

 

[AC_Exotic]

Chris Pratt
Yesterdayat2:57AM ·
I remember being blown away in this moment on the @avengers set. Nobody was allowed to film anything on their phones. I said screw it. No rule was going to stop me from seizing this once in a lifetime opportunity to capture this collection of stars, a groupthat likely will never be in the same room again. We are so blessed.

 

[PDT816]

View embedded media

Chris Pratt
Yesterdayat2:57AM ·
I remember being blown away in this moment on the @avengers set. Nobody was allowed to film anything on their phones. I said screw it. No rule was going to stop me from seizing this once in a lifetime opportunity to capture this collection of stars, a groupthat likely will never be in the same room again. We are so blessed.

Half of those people are imposters

 

[Been Jammin]

Half of those people are imposters

Stunt doubles. Pretty interesting seeing the difference between how some of them look during filming and how they look in the actual film.

 

[Been Jammin]

The new gauntlet was Stark"s tech. He would have been able to control it and nab the stones from one glove to another during the melee

To add to this, he might have designed an eject system into the gauntlet to make it easy to remove the stones. After all, they were already planning to return them to where they belonged after they used them to revive everyone.

 

[SquinkY5786]

So, I have been thinking about the time travel in EG, reading about it, discussing it with other fans.

I have come to the conclusion that if you want to find problems with it you can. If you want to rationalize and explain those problems away, it can be done.

Probably best to just not think about it too much, take it for what it is, and enjoy it. The more you break it down, the more confusing it gets, and you can always follow up with a "but, what if...."?...

I look forward to seeing it for a second time.

So if cap going back and staying in the 50s or whatever. Would that branch out and create its own timeline? How was old Steve Rodgers in their timeline on the bench. Guess he could have traveled after growing old

 

[Been Jammin]

The only problem I see with that is then what did Rogers do with himself during the Cold War? He kept his head down is my explanation. Here himself exist without sticking his nose into every conflict he could. He faced his fear.

Yup. A lot of complaints that Cap wouldn't be able to do that, but, he would know that everything would eventually work out the way it was destined to. For example, he could save JFK from assassination, but he would know that it would change the course of history, and might result (somehow) in them not being able to reverse Thanos' snap.

 

[Been Jammin]

So if cap going back and staying in the 50s or whatever. Would that branch out and create its own timeline? How was old Steve Rodgers in their timeline on the bench. Guess he could have traveled after growing old

Two possible explanations.

1). He traveled to their time before they sent him back into the past, and was hiding until they sent young him back to return the stones (confusing, I know)

2). There were 2 CA all along. One laying low and living in hiding, and another who was thawed from an iceberg, joining the Avengers, etc.

This is the explanation I prefer. To look at it from another angle. In theory, if Thanos had not killed Gamora, there would be 2 Gamoras running around at the end of the movie. One who was Quill's gf, and one from the past, who kneed him in the balls.

 

[AC_Exotic]

 

[SSS!!!]

Two possible explanations.

1). He traveled to their time before they sent him back into the past, and was hiding until they sent young him back to return the stones (confusing, I know)

2). There were 2 CA all along. One laying low and living in hiding, and another who was thawed from an iceberg, joining the Avengers, etc.

This is the explanation I prefer. To look at it from another angle. In theory, if Thanos had not killed Gamora, there would be 2 Gamoras running around at the end of the movie. One who was Quill's gf, and one from the past, who kneed him in the balls.

Number 2 is absolutely what happened, in my mind. There was always 2 Caps running around, he just knew to stay low until that point.

Just saw the movie last night. Really good stuff. Time travel stuff is just something you have to accept. It doesn’t really make sense but who cares. You could do that w a million things in the MCU. I love how they didn’t just kill off both Cap and Tony. Both found their peace in their own way and have both moved on. Well done.

 

[Been Jammin]

I love how they didn’t just kill off both Cap and Tony. Both found their peace in their own way and have both moved on. Well done.

Along those lines. We knew going in that this movie was going to signify a changing of the guard. The original 6 Avengers were going to be phased out, and (I think) a new group of Avengers will carry on.

Black Widow and Iron Man both died.
Killing off another would have meant that half of them died, and would have been the easy way out, IMO. They had to get creative with the other 4.

Hawkeye...back to semi-retirement and training his daughter as a future agent/super hero

Hulk.... Injured from using the I.G. Possibly too injured to fight in the future. May continue to show up as Professor Hulk/Bruce Banner (brains but no/minimal brawn)

Cap... The only one existing after 2023 (end of Endgame) is an old man, incapable of helping.

Thor... Off planet, with the GOTG.

It would have been too easy just to kill Cap. I liked that they came up with a clever way to eliminate him from the picture.

 

[Been Jammin]

Follow Up to my prior post...

Who do you think will comprise the main team in the next phase of Avengers movies?

My prediction:

Captain America (Falcon)
War Machine
Scarlet Witch
Ant Man
Wasp
Black Panther
Winter Soldier

Captain Marvel seems like an obvious choice, but she is clearly too powerful, and poses a challenge to the story writing. They will find a way to do what they did with her between the 70's and 2019, IMO.

Scarlet Witch is also super powerful, but not close to CM, IMO.

Others who could make the cut... Dr. Strange, Spider Man, Valkyrie, Hulk (all less likely, IMO)

Of course, they could bring in new characters as well. There are rumors out there that Namor and Ms. Marvel may be part of the MCU's near future.

 

[SSS!!!]

Yeah it will be very interesting what they do going forward without Cap and Tony. No one really carries anywhere near the emotional weight those two do and I’m not sure who will be the leaders.

You also have to remember they will now have Xmen, Deadpool and F4 to inject into the story. That will be very interesting to see how they do that.

 

[Been Jammin]

You also have to remember they will now have Xmen, Deadpool and F4 to inject into the story. That will be very interesting to see how they do that.

Currently there is a 4 year gap between those heroes and the Avengers (2023 for Avengers). It would require overcoming some hurdles to combine the X-men and Avengers. Did some of the X-men turn to dust? Why haven't they crossed paths before? Etc.

 

[gopokes2003]

Two possible explanations.

1). He traveled to their time before they sent him back into the past, and was hiding until they sent young him back to return the stones (confusing, I know)

2). There were 2 CA all along. One laying low and living in hiding, and another who was thawed from an iceberg, joining the Avengers, etc.

This is the explanation I prefer. To look at it from another angle. In theory, if Thanos had not killed Gamora, there would be 2 Gamoras running around at the end of the movie. One who was Quill's gf, and one from the past, who kneed him in the balls.

Number 2 is absolutely what happened, in my mind. There was always 2 Caps running around, he just knew to stay low until that point.

Just saw the movie last night. Really good stuff. Time travel stuff is just someth ing you have to accept. It doesn’t really make sense but who cares. You could do that w a million things in the MCU. I love how they didn’t just kill off both Cap and Tony. Both found their peace in their own way and have both moved on. Well done.

Alternate realities were created. See link.
Russo brothers explain everything