Emoluments

[Syskatine]

Lost among the circus of this administration is the emoluments issue. I confess I know nearly nothing about it and haven't taken 5 seconds to look at it.

Does the "emoluments" clause forbid a POTUS from profiting from office? If so, isn't the Saudi monarchy throwing $$ at Trump's properties after he's elected pretty much violate that on its face?

He didn't set up a blind trust, retained control of yhis business, and is cashing checks from foreign governments. Right?

The general manager of the Trump International Hotel in Manhattan had a rare bit of good news to report to investors this spring: After two years of decline, revenue from room rentals went up 13 percent in the first three months of 2018.

What caused the uptick at President Trump’s flagship hotel in New York? One major factor: “a last-minute visit to New York by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia,” wrote general manager Prince A. Sanders in a May 15 letter, which was obtained by The Washington Post.

 

[Pokeabear]

Yes, it was the first reason he should have been impeached on January 20th 2017.

 

[squeak]

Yes, it was the first reason he should have been impeached on January 20th 2017.

 

[Syskatine]

Yes, it was the first reason he should have been impeached on January 20th 2017.

It was one of 500 scandals at the inception of his presidency that smacked of brazen corruption and/or incompetence, so it falls through the cracks. There's so much to choose from. The media was howling about his obvious inauguration lies this didn't get as much sunlight.

HE pockets loads of money from lobbyists and dignitaries and lies and pisses away the good economy like he did his first inheritance. But emails.

 

[wyomingosualum]

Would anybody care if millions of bottles of Heinz ketchup were sold overseas during a President John Kerry administration?

 

[Syskatine]

Would anybody care if millions of bottles of Heinz ketchup were sold overseas during a President John Kerry administration?

Yeah, particularly if he didn't have a blind trust set up and foreign governments were buying tons of Heinz ketchup. This isn't hard to avoid, all these Potuses have done it.

 

[MegaPoke]

This seems like a ripoff of the Logan Act episode. Misapplication of anachronistic arcane clauses seems like a pretty slim hope.

Can you explain how this meets the standard and what standing the Maryland judge has to have given the go ahead to these lawyers?

 

[wyomingosualum]

Yeah, particularly if he didn't have a blind trust set up and foreign governments were buying tons of Heinz ketchup. This isn't hard to avoid, all these Potuses have done it.

Your case would be much stronger if foreigners weren’t receiving something of equal value in return.

Do you believe a blind trust is always truly blind?

 

[Syskatine]

Your case would be much stronger if foreigners weren’t receiving something of equal value in return.

Do you believe a blind trust is always truly blind?

You'd have to see the trust agreement and know if everyone followed it. Previous presidents from both sides of the aisle pretty much satisfied everyone that they're blind trusts were okay. I do not remember any criticism of any previous president on that issue.

It is very easy to avoid an appearance of impropriety. Only an absolute narcissist would place his business over his presidency and the country's faith in his willingness to put the country over his immediate financial best interests. Do you disagree with that?

 

[wyomingosualum]

You'd have to see the trust agreement and know if everyone followed it. Previous presidents from both sides of the aisle pretty much satisfied everyone that they're blind trusts were okay. I do not remember any criticism of any previous president on that issue.

It is very easy to avoid an appearance of impropriety. Only an absolute narcissist would place his business over his presidency and the country's faith in his willingness to put the country over his immediate financial best interests. Do you disagree with that?

I’m more interested in the non-existence of impropriety instead of the appearance thereof.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

This seems like a ripoff of the Logan Act episode. Misapplication of anachronistic arcane clauses seems like a pretty slim hope.

Can you explain how this meets the standard and what standing the Maryland judge has to have given the go ahead to these lawyers?

How can the emoluments clause (in the Constitution) be a rip-off of the Logan Act?

 

[MegaPoke]

How can the emoluments clause (in the Constitution) be a rip-off of the Logan Act?

I meant (tongue in cheek) to say that like the recent invocation of the Logan Act (Flynn), this seems anachronistic, not precisely applied, and unlikely to hold up.

 

[CowboyJD]

I meant (tongue in cheek) to say that like the recent invocation of the Logan Act (Flynn), this seems anachronistic, not precisely applied, and unlikely to hold up.

You know.....I’ve heard far lefties call the Second Amendment anachronistic and not precisely applied.

 

[MegaPoke]

You know.....I’ve heard far lefties call the Second Amendment anachronistic and not precisely applied.

Fine, but I'm not calling to change it. I'm just saying I am not sure I see how it applies here. But again, I am not a lawyer. Can you explain? I've already asked Syskatine.

 

[Syskatine]

Misapplication of anachronistic arcane clauses seems like a pretty slim hope.

Can you explain how this meets the standard and what standing the Maryland judge has to have given the go ahead to these lawyers?

"Anachronistic and arcane" is a great adjective for constitutional law. Now you sound like me bitching about the electoral college. The problem is that the anachronistic document that's our constitution is still the supreme law of the land.

 

[MegaPoke]

"Anachronistic and arcane" is a great adjective for constitutional law. Now you sound like me bitching about the electoral college. The problem is that the anachronistic document that's our constitution is still the supreme law of the land.

Really wasn’t the point I was making, but I didn’t word it very artfully. I’m a Constitutional absolutist as you know. I am waiting still however for someone to tell me how this applies in this case. Because it does seem like the crisis of the week rather than a final solution to the Trump problem.

 

[CowboyJD]

Fine, but I'm not calling to change it. I'm just saying I am not sure I see how it applies here. But again, I am not a lawyer. Can you explain? I've already asked Syskatine.

It generally prohibits federal officeholders from receiving any gift, payment, or other things personally from a foreign state or its rulers, officers or representatives.

Designed to keep foreign representatives from attempting to influence policy by giving things of value to a sitting President. Basically an anti-bribery prophylactic.

It’s the reason past Presidents have put their holdings in a truly blind trust or liquidated their holdings to cash and or mutual funds, etc.

Not interested in debating historical whatabouts or hypotheticals. Not even really interested in debating whether it is being violated right now by Trump. I haven’t researched the particular facts of the particular suits out there to have a strong opinion one way or the other.

I will confess to largely checking out of the political morass at this point. My lefty friends accuse me of letting Trump “normalize” his unlawful behavior. I shrug my shoulders in response and try to talk about something else.

 

[CowboyJD]

Really wasn’t the point I was making, but I didn’t word it very artfully. I’m a Constitutional absolutist as you know. I am waiting still however for someone to tell me how this applies in this case. Because it does seem like the crisis of the week rather than a final solution to the Trump problem.

The theory (which I’m not going to convince you is correct) is that since Trump didn’t liquidate or put his holdings in a blind trust, foreign governments are providing him things of value through business transactions with his closely held/non-publicly held business hopes of influencing policy.

The theory being that the President shouldn’t financially gain directly as a result of being President while he is the President.

Kind of (not exactly) like Al Sharpton selling his book rights to his own charity.

Also, there have been emoluments lawsuits filed right about the time that he announced he wasn’t putting his holdings in a true blind trust or liquidating so I don’t really get how this could fairly be characterized as the crisis of the week. The lawsuits are making their way through the system and will continue to do so.

 

[Alpha Poke]

This is bad news for Hillary.

 

[Pokeabear]

It generally prohibits federal officeholders from receiving any gift, payment, or other things personally from a foreign state or its rulers, officers or representatives.

Designed to keep foreign representatives from attempting to influence policy by giving things of value to a sitting President. Basically an anti-bribery prophylactic.

It’s the reason past Presidents have put their holdings in a truly blind trust or liquidated their holdings to cash and or mutual funds, etc.

Not interested in debating historical whatabouts or hypotheticals. Not even really interested in debating whether it is being violated right now by Trump. I haven’t researched the particular facts of the particular suits out there to have a strong opinion one way or the other.

I will confess to largely checking out of the political morass at this point. My lefty friends accuse me of letting Trump “normalize” his unlawful behavior. I shrug my shoulders in response and try to talk about something else.

They’re not wrong. Shrugs shoulders and turns the page. Merry Christmas and a happy holiday season every one.

 

[CowboyJD]

They’re not wrong. Shrugs shoulders and turns the page. Merry Christmas and a happy holiday season every one.

I care even less what you think than what they do.

Not interested in raging against the machine anymore.

 

[Pokeabear]

I care even less what you think than what they do.

Shrugs shoulders and turns the page.

 

[PDT816]

Yeah, particularly if he didn't have a blind trust set up and foreign governments were buying tons of Heinz ketchup. This isn't hard to avoid, all these Potuses have done it.

Obamas didn't use a blind trust either, and he leveraged winning the election in 2008 into $6 million dollars in book deals, international publication rights, etc in the next year.

 

[Alpha Poke]

Obama is worse for memory than weed.

Wiped eight years completely from libs.

Did make them pious though.

 

[CowboyJD]

Obamas didn't use a blind trust either, and he leveraged winning the election in 2008 into $6 million dollars in book deals, international publication rights, etc in the next year.

They didn’t use a blind trust, but their holdings were cash, treasury bills, and index funds.

Additionally, I’m not sure any King, Prince, or foreign state paid for those book deals....

Which likely makes a bit of difference legally, even if not necessarily ethically.

 

[PDT816]

They didn’t use a blind trust, but their holdings were cash, treasury bills, and index funds.

Additionally, I’m not sure any King, Prince, or foreign state paid for those book deals....

Which likely makes a bit of difference legally, even if not necessarily ethically.

I agree 100% they aren't similar circumstances. I'm just pointing out that blind trusts aren't a requirement and that the last TWO presidents haven't used them.

I posted the reference books because their book rights are the most valuable asset the Obama own. It's 80-90+% of their net worth while they were in office. Their cash, treasury bills, and index holdings were next to nothing.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Obamas didn't use a blind trust either, and he leveraged winning the election in 2008 into $6 million dollars in book deals, international publication rights, etc in the next year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-20-million-since-arriving-in-washington/amp/

“Then came the big money. In the two weeks before he was inaugurated as the 44th president, Obama reworked his book deals. He agreed not to publish another non-fiction book during his time in office, while signing a $500,000 advance for a young adult version of Dreams From My Father. He also finished the manuscript for Of Thee I Sing: A Letter To My Daughters, which was eventually published in November 2010. He donated all post-tax profits from the children’s book to provide scholarships for children of wounded and fallen soldiers.”

 

[PDT816]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-20-million-since-arriving-in-washington/amp/

“Then came the big money. In the two weeks before he was inaugurated as the 44th president, Obama reworked his book deals. He agreed not to publish another non-fiction book during his time in office, while signing a $500,000 advance for a young adult version of Dreams From My Father. He also finished the manuscript for Of Thee I Sing: A Letter To My Daughters, which was eventually published in November 2010. He donated all post-tax profits from the children’s book to provide scholarships for children of wounded and fallen soldiers.”

Excellent link toon; I was just estimating.

The Obama's had $15.7 out of $20.5 million from book sales, or 77%.
Their income from the their equity holdings (cash, treasury bonds, etc) totaled $250,000 or $20,000 a year.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Excellent link toon; I was just estimating.

The Obama's had $15.7 out of $20.5 million from book sales, or 77%.
Their income from the their equity holdings (cash, treasury bonds, etc) totaled $250,000 or $20,000 a year.

How much of that happened during his presidency? That’s kind of the issue here

 

[PDT816]

How much of that happened during his presidency? That’s kind of the issue here

All of the cash from making new book deals. And you are right, it's the issue here.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

All of the cash from making new book deals. And you are right, it's the issue here.

Did he profit from these while president? Keep digging lol

 

[PDT816]

Let's get some more facts out there.

1. DJT is sole owner of the Trump Group. This is what some want DJT to divest himself from which really isn't practical during his term in office, let alone during the transition period. There will be contractual obligations that simply can't be divested of on a whim.
   
2. The Trump Group owns partial interests in 450-500 properties across a wide range of segments.
3. The Trump International DC is one of those properties. It is a conglomerate of owners, one of which is Trump Group. I'm not sure of Trump's stake, but I'm sure one of you could look it up if interested.

 

[PDT816]

Did he profit from these while president? Keep digging lol

Again, yes. This was when he held the office of POTUS.

Keep backpeddling.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Again, yes. This was when he held the office of POTUS.

Keep backpeddling.

No he didn’t. Keep up the bullshit this is quite entertaining

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Let's get some more facts out there.

1. DJT is sole owner of the Trump Group. This is what some want DJT to divest himself from which really isn't practical during his term in office, let alone during the transition period. There will be contractual obligations that simply can't be divested of on a whim.
   
2. The Trump Group owns partial interests in 450-500 properties across a wide range of segments.
3. The Trump International DC is one of those properties. It is a conglomerate of owners, one of which is Trump Group. I'm not sure of Trump's stake, but I'm sure one of you could look it up if interested.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Group

The Trump Group

The Trump Group is an investment company based in Aventura, Florida.[1] As a developer of luxury properties, its projects have included Williams Island in Aventura, Estates at Acqualina, and Luxuria in Boca Raton. [2][3][4]It was founded by brothers Jules and Eddie Trump (who are not related to Donald Trump[5]), who moved to the US from South Africa in the 1970s.[6] Initially based in New York, it purchased the Seattle-based Pay 'n Savedrug store chain in 1984.[7] Shortly after its purchase of Pay 'n Save, it was unsuccessfully sued by the Trump Organization over the use of the Trump name; however, they did succeed in revoking The Trump Group's trademark in 1988.[8]


Do you wanna keep going here?

 

[Medic007]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Group

The Trump Group

The Trump Group is an investment company based in Aventura, Florida.[1] As a developer of luxury properties, its projects have included Williams Island in Aventura, Estates at Acqualina, and Luxuria in Boca Raton. [2][3][4]It was founded by brothers Jules and Eddie Trump (who are not related to Donald Trump[5]), who moved to the US from South Africa in the 1970s.[6] Initially based in New York, it purchased the Seattle-based Pay 'n Savedrug store chain in 1984.[7] Shortly after its purchase of Pay 'n Save, it was unsuccessfully sued by the Trump Organization over the use of the Trump name; however, they did succeed in revoking The Trump Group's trademark in 1988.[8]


Do you wanna keep going here?

And this is why nobody engages you in adult conversations. He clearly meant the Trump Organization, but you can't contain the impulse to smear your poop all over yourself thinking you had some sort of "gotcha" moment.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

And this is why nobody engages you in adult conversations. He clearly meant the Trump Organization, but you can't contain the impulse to smear your poop all over yourself thinking you had some sort of "gotcha" moment.

***thinks he meant to say Trump Org, yet doesn’t realize he wrote Trump Group THREE TIMES, smears poop on himself***

 

[Syskatine]

Obamas didn't use a blind trust either, and he leveraged winning the election in 2008 into $6 million dollars in book deals, international publication rights, etc in the next year.

What's the point, since Obama didn't use a blind trust then Biff can take $ from foreign governments? Did Obama do something wrong in this regard?

A blind trust is just a tool to avoid financial conflict, like Biff is engaging in. Transparency and avoiding financial conflicts of interest is the important thing. I'm nto sure how Obama making money from writing a book is improper.

 

[Syskatine]

Let's get some more facts out there.

1. DJT is sole owner of the Trump Group. This is what some want DJT to divest himself from which really isn't practical during his term in office, let alone during the transition period. There will be contractual obligations that simply can't be divested of on a whim.
   
2. The Trump Group owns partial interests in 450-500 properties across a wide range of segments.
3. The Trump International DC is one of those properties. It is a conglomerate of owners, one of which is Trump Group. I'm not sure of Trump's stake, but I'm sure one of you could look it up if interested.

Yes, mansplain these wrong facts some more.

1. Yes, it is practical. He can sell it off. He's the one that boasts about its "worth" all the time. Far larger ventures are sold on a daily basis around the world.

2. They can be sold. He's THE PRESIDENT. You act like if there's an inconvenience or it costs him money then the country just needs to take back seat. The country, and not his personal financial situation, should take precedence.

 

[PDT816]

Yes, mansplain these wrong facts some more.

1. Yes, it is practical. He can sell it off. He's the one that boasts about its "worth" all the time. Far larger ventures are sold on a daily basis around the world.

2. They can be sold. He's THE PRESIDENT. You act like if there's an inconvenience or it costs him money then the country just needs to take back seat. The country, and not his personal financial situation, should take precedence.

Wrong.

You don't sell large companies like you'd sell your car. These transactions take months and even years to process. A buyer couldn't finish the due diligence on Trump Group in the transition periods let alone work out all the contractual agreements for every property that may have riders with the investment partners.

Can he sell them? Yes. Would the process take him months or years to accomplish it? Probably.

That he had these financial interests was well known during the election. People voted for him anyway. Crying about it now is stupid.