Education Funding - how do you fix?
- Thread starter cableok
- Start date
Did you want to know why you can't tax casinos or get 22 mil from balls and dice? I assumed you ment the tax.
Wonder how you get ball and dice money but can’t tax casinos.
Seems like the state could come up with a clever way to “tax” the tribes. It isn’t Indians spending their paychecks in the casinos.
How much money does the state pay out to tribes? Divert any and all of that to education.
Why? Unskilled and underskilled labor should gain skills to compete for higher wages. Raising the minimum wage just makes illegals more attractive to hire and small businesses delay and abandon growth.
Raising it certainly won't help the teachers.
Very good question.
Because the state is not taxing the casinos. The state is being paid an exclusivity fee. This means that the state has agreed not allow any other sources of gambling into the state except with the tribes. In other words Draft Kings and Fan Dual are illegal in the state of Oklahoma, and the state will never legalize them.
Ok, so up that fee...a lot, or get rid of exclusivity and bring in other forms and tax those.
There is no clever way for the state to tax a sovereign nation. That would be like the state of OK taxing Mexico, and the state doesn't pay the tribes the federal government does.
We could require them visas to enter our nation.
The state compact was agreed to and renewable if either party does nothing. The Tribes are disinclined to renegotiate a new deal meaning nothing will happen and the compact will renew.
You can't require a US citizen to provide a visa to enter a nation they already belong to.
You can not. The gambling is taking place on sovereign land to the tribe. The state has no means to tell anyone what they can do in the casino.
Arrest them when they come back to Oklahoma land. We love to incarcerate people.
The state could arrest people for coming back onto non tribal land, but could you prove they were gambling in the casino even if they were in it?
If you had drones
Install a PikePass scanner in front of all entrances to casino parking lots.
To get you back on topic however before we completely hijack the thread. You didn't ask the glaring question about why is the balls and dice estimate too high?
Oh well, thank Tulsaaggieson I'm glad you asked that question. Good question.
The money spent on gambling in the casinos is in reality finite. When you place a new game on the floor of a casino it doesn't generate new revenue. It moves revenue that is already on the floor to the game. In other words, the money spent in the casino will remain the same, but balls and dice will now get a cut of that.
Here is the kicker. The state when they passed the bill said that 10% of the net win is paid to the state. That means the tables playing craps and roulette have to a win before the state gets paid. Net take on those games is not very high. The Tribe however gets to take 10% for running the game, but not off the net win. They just take 10% off the top. There are some other nuances of the wording that are interesting but I wont get into that.
Now that means you need 220,000,000 dollars of net win to generate 22,000,000 dollars in money sent to the state. A laughable number at best.
Oh well, thank Tulsaaggieson I'm glad you asked that question. Good question.
The money spent on gambling in the casinos is in reality finite. When you place a new game on the floor of a casino it doesn't generate new revenue. It moves revenue that is already on the floor to the game. In other words, the money spent in the casino will remain the same, but balls and dice will now get a cut of that.
Here is the kicker. The state when they passed the bill said that 10% of the net win is paid to the state. That means the tables playing craps and roulette have to a win before the state gets paid. Net take on those games is not very high. The Tribe however gets to take 10% for running the game, but not off the net win. They just take 10% off the top. There are some other nuances of the wording that are interesting but I wont get into that.
Now that means you need 220,000,000 dollars of net win to generate 22,000,000 dollars in money sent to the state. A laughable number at best.
Which doesn't prove they played, it proves they entered.
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These would have to be on non tribal lands, and most parking lots are tribally owned.
Bond issues by law can't pay salaries, and they don't go to maintenance or recurring costs. They go to new or replacement facilities. If you are at Union or Jenks or Owasso or BA or Bixby that is no problem because people will always vote yes on bond issues. In many if not most districts that is not the case.
Thus not only is nothing shiny or new ever built, but salaries stay the same, people are layed off and no money is their to maintain facilities ot classrooms or textbooks. That takes state appropriation.
As I have stated before, if you just roll back taxes to 2004 levels you get 1.5 billion. Teachers are asking for only 200 million to end the walkout. Getting rid of the capital gains exemption and reinstating the 5 dollar hotel tax gets you there. It's not hard.
Thus not only is nothing shiny or new ever built, but salaries stay the same, people are layed off and no money is their to maintain facilities ot classrooms or textbooks. That takes state appropriation.
As I have stated before, if you just roll back taxes to 2004 levels you get 1.5 billion. Teachers are asking for only 200 million to end the walkout. Getting rid of the capital gains exemption and reinstating the 5 dollar hotel tax gets you there. It's not hard.
Coarse keep in mind the teachers are protesting and hoping these exact same idiots fix their problems. So who are really the bigger idiots?
I just heard that there may be a proposal to send to voters to allow for bond money to be utilized for classroom supplies and maintenance. Apparently the break-through is because the large urban districts agreed to get behind the proposal (obviously suburban districts are proponents).
The trivial compacts expire 1/1/2020. They cover only Class III gaming. Exclusivity fees do not apply to Class II gaming. Craps and roulette are Class III so if alllowed would generate some new fees.
The exclusivity fees/pacts have nothing to do with daily fantasy gambling. The tribes certainly did lobby hard to quash the poropsed approval of daily fantasy games in OK, for obvious reasons.
The exclusivity fees/pacts have nothing to do with daily fantasy gambling. The tribes certainly did lobby hard to quash the poropsed approval of daily fantasy games in OK, for obvious reasons.
Then why would the tribes need a compact with the state at all?
That is another good question. Because the federal government said to the tribes if they wish to gamble with class III gaming they have to have the compact with the state. Each state and tribe have different compacts. Each tribe can sign a different compact with the state, but the state of OK has a generic one it signs with each tribe.
Daily fantasy sports is gambling. The state when it signed the compact promised to not allow additional gambling in the state, (exclusivity) ergo no daily fantasy sports or the compact is voided, and the tribes don't owe the state any money.
Edited to one other point for this. The Tribes could simply move everything to class II and cut out the state if they felt as if the compact was violated in this manner.
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To address you first point. Yes some new fees will be generated by people who will come to the casino to play balls and dice but didn't before. Or it will take some money from class II and move it to class III. If you get that kind of movement though I would be amazed.
One more point on that I thought of last night as well that's even better. Most of the class II games are leased. Meaning the tribes can make this move and the manufacturer will do so at no cost up front because the lease agreement means they get a cut. The tribes can literaly make this move with no expense. They will be out the manufacturers cut but thats it.
This also means the Tribes have a lot of leverage with the state and the feds. It would be advisable for the State to play ball with the Tribes as they stand to lose money that goes mostly into education. Most of the tribes understand thier leverage especialy the chickasaw.
Oh yea, and YUP. Honestly though I am curious as to were you think I'm off?
One thing that absolutely should be done is to tie Legislature and Governor pay to ranking of teacher pay. If teachers are ranked 49th in the country so should legislature and governor. That would free up money or give incintive to pay teachers more. Also, if legislature passed that and governor signed it, the public would 100% support.
The tribes can't simply declare that Class III games are now Class II. These classes are legally defined under federal law. They make BY FAR the most money on Class III. The compacts do not prevent the state from allowing ANY other type gambling, only gambling that is the same as Class III gaming covered n the compact.
I definitely agree that the tribes have tremendous leverage and it would most likely be in the best interest of the state to not piss them off. But, they are not legally restricted from doing so.
I definitely agree that the tribes have tremendous leverage and it would most likely be in the best interest of the state to not piss them off. But, they are not legally restricted from doing so.
