Education Funding - how do you fix?

[cableok]

Separate thread about funding for education ... not about the walkout/lockout.

Couple of questions.
1) If you feel Oklahoma public schools need to be funded more (above and beyond the bill signed this month), what is best path to generate the money?
a) move current expenditures from something else to education (if so, what is something else?)
b) increase taxes (increase taxes on what exactly?)
c) reduce overhead currently spent on school administration
d) change law so that more local money can be used for public school salaries and administrative costs (ie current bond funding that by state law can only be utilized for technology and capital expenditures like buildings and buses)


2) After the funding approved this month, Oklahoma’s public K-12 education funding per pupil will be about $9K. That does NOT include monies generated from bonds funds which pay for computers, technology, buses,and builds facilities.
Some private schools in Oklahoma are near $9K for the school year. Why can some private schools afford buildings and run a school at a similar per pupil rate as public schools? Are they operating at a loss or do donations cover differences?

 

[CBradSmith]

 

[07pilt]

1)Taxes on whatever (land is my favorite though)
2)You would be shocked how little private schools pay their teachers.

 

[CBradSmith]

1)Taxes on whatever (land is my favorite though)
2)You would be shocked how little private schools pay their teachers.

Deep Thoughts, by @07pilt

 

[cableok]

1)Taxes on whatever (land is my favorite though)
2)You would be shocked how little private schools pay their teachers.

No, I wouldn’t be shocked. I am aware that many pay their teacher’s peanuts. My wife’s first year teaching job was at a small parochial school.

You think the difference is due to teacher pay?

 

[07pilt]

Deep Thoughts, by @07pilt

Next time I'll include a gif to jazz it up.

 

[poke2001]

I take away the teacher raises and put the money from the taxes raised into classroom funding and support staff. 100% of it, since the teachers keep saying it’s about funding and not pay raises.

Let’s do this.

 

[07pilt]

No, I wouldn’t be shocked. I am aware that many pay their teacher’s peanuts. My wife’s first year teaching job was at a small parochial school.

You think the difference is due to teacher pay?

Just spitballin', teacher pay and tuition are about the only things I know about private school finances.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Raise the minimum wage.

 

[tlwwake]

Raise the minimum wage.

How does that even relate? Not sure i see the correlation.

I think there are better (direct) ways that affect the funding.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-minimum-wage-impacts-20160421-snap-htmlstory.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-really-helps-workers/?utm_term=.277ea630b72c

 

[AC_Exotic]

Start with cutting percentages of tax revenue for education to the department of education(48%).

In other words, 48% of your tax dollar given to educate children goes to government bureaucrats.

Cut that down to 20% and re-allocate the monies to local school districts, and you'll see an immediate boost in what happens with our schools.

 

[poke2001]

Raise the minimum wage.

Needing a raise?

 

[CBradSmith]

Next time I'll include a gif to jazz it up.

While a gif will add dimension to your personality, a broader model for improving education would amount to fireworks.

 

[07pilt]

Thanks for the encouragement.

 

[imprimis]

Start with cutting percentages of tax revenue for education to the department of education(48%).

In other words, 48% of your tax dollar given to educate children goes to government bureaucrats.

Cut that down to 20% and re-allocate the monies to local school districts, and you'll see an immediate boost in what happens with our schools.

Agree. The local, state and federal governments have poured trillions into education over the years with piss poor results. It's not a lack of money. It's, as you said, the money going everywhere but where it should go. It's obscene that school administrators, at least here in Texas, are paid what they are.

The HS I went to had around 3500 students with one Principal, one Asst Principal and 1 Counselor running it. My local HS has around 2700 students with each grade having one or more Principals, several Asst Principals and countless Counselors yet the teachers remain woefully under paid. The Superintendent of my HS is paid north of $275,000/yr. The administrators below him are almost all above $100,000.

The local HS hired a woman to be Superintendent years ago from Atlanta. She got here and was caught up in the cheating scandal in Atlanta. She was let go after 6 +/- months and paid a year's salary severance pay and moved back to Atlanta. The next Superintendent and 2-3 other administrators came from Beaumont ISD. It was run so badly that Texas fired all of them and took over the school system. Yet, they were brought here for 2-3 years and were recently let go.

Put the money at the bottom of the pyramid where it may do some good.

 

[lovethempokes]

Do away with the state education department and push all money to local districts or counties. If you do this some of these small schools might decide to consolidate on their own. I’ve been looking at the pay over the last few days. There are close to 400 districts that have less than 1000 students that pay a superintendent. Tulsa and OKC have roughly 40k students that have just one. Not saying that those two are districts to emulate( ripe with heir own waste) but that number (400) is outrageous.

 

[lovethempokes]

Also, all the people complaining about buildings or desks or chairs, etc, need to start complaining to their local school board. Those items can be fixed with bonds. Has nothing to do with state education funding.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Needing a raise?

I believe Clinton has inadvertently revealed the primary driver for Democrat passion for an increased minimum wage.

 

[Ostatedchi]

I like the Bartlesville plan to fund education. https://sites.google.com/view/thetimeisnowok/home

 

[07pilt]

I believe Clinton has inadvertently revealed the primary driver for Democrat passion for an increased minimum wage.

-I believe Yuri has inadvertently revealed the primary driver for Menshevik passion for an better working conditions.

 

[CowboyPhil]

Not a fan on taxing specific businesses or products as I don't like tax breaks for specific businesses or products. If you're going to tax cigarettes or tabacco products, why not tax alcohol, sugared beverages, fast food industry etc.

.05 sales tax would raise just under $250 million dollars.

But get rid of Dept of Education and make the minimum enrollment of 2500 students per district to receive their per pupil allocation. No reason for the state to assign dollars for education, support, or administrative purposes. Make a minimum salary for teachers and then the rest is up to the districts to decide.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

Not a fan on taxing specific businesses or products as I don't like tax breaks for specific businesses or products. If you're going to tax cigarettes or tabacco products, why not tax alcohol, sugared beverages, fast food industry etc.

.05 sales tax would raise just under $250 million dollars.

But get rid of Dept of Education and make the minimum enrollment of 2500 students per district to receive their per pupil allocation. No reason for the state to assign dollars for education, support, or administrative purposes. Make a minimum salary for teachers and then the rest is up to the districts to decide.

Alcohol is already heavily taxed.

 

[CowboyPhil]

So is gas and cigarettes but they're in there.

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

So is gas and cigarettes but they're in there.

Your phrasing, and the fact that you lumped it with sugary drinks and fast food, suggested your belief that it isn't. You also didn't mention fuel tax.

Although it is somewhat regressive, an increased fuel tax has to be part of the equation IMO.

 

[CowboyPhil]

Or legalize weed, make 15 legal age, tax heavily and high schoolers could fund their own education

 

[poke2001]

We should allow a lottery in the state. That would fund education.

 

[CowboyPhil]

Your phrasing, and the fact that you lumped it with sugary drinks and fast food, suggested your belief that it isn't. You also didn't mention fuel tax.

Although it is somewhat regressive, an increased fuel tax has to be part of the equation IMO.

Fuel tax is fine by me as I think just about everyone would contribute, hence the sales tax hits everyone and every product.

 

[knoblock]

Funding. Raise the GPT to 7% where it should be.
Spending. Reduce administration.

 

[07pilt]

We should allow a lottery in the state. That would fund education.

Agreed, $70 million is just a drop in the bucket. If we got rid of every superindent we could save $160 million. Now that's real money.

 

[poke2001]

Fuel tax is fine by me as I think just about everyone would contribute, hence the sales tax hits everyone and every product.

We should:

Increase GPT to 7%.
Restore income tax to where it was a few years ago.
Fire about 400 superintendents and their staff, consolidating districts.
Increase fuel taxes to what they did in this new law maybe even an extra penny.
.01 sales tax
Tax the casinos. Not sure amounts or logistics, but should be equal to O&G
End wind subsidies and tax at same 7% rate as O&G
Go for the hotel tax.

Above is likely far more revenue than proposed...great. Give teachers a raise, fund the shit out classrooms. Then, as @long-duc-dong previously stated, penalize any school or teacher that doesn’t have increased test scores in 2 years. Take funding away, start firing people.

 

[anon_xl72qcu5isp39]

Income tax.
Marijuana tax.
Property tax.

Start with cutting percentages of tax revenue for education to the department of education(48%).

In other words, 48% of your tax dollar given to educate children goes to government bureaucrats.

Cut that down to 20% and re-allocate the monies to local school districts, and you'll see an immediate boost in what happens with our schools.

Go to some of these rural schools and say we should cut the state dept. of ed. I'm telling you, some of these small districts need shut down yesterday. I think as a practical matter, you do that with state-wide standards. There won't be enough votes in teh legislature to shut down these rural schools. Require them to offer and successfully teach upper level math and science, and they'll die on the vine.

 

[long-duc-dong]

We should allow a lottery in the state. That would fund education.

Wonder boy Brad Henry said so.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

The lottery was meant to boost funding for education not be a substantial source of it. To act as if it does nothing is more folly.

 

[cableok]

We should:

Increase GPT to 7%.

End wind subsidies and tax at same 7% rate as O&G
.

Not an Energy Guy so I am really just asking this, I don’t know the answer. But isn’t GPT a tax for production and O&G is also taxed again on the sale? I thought the thinking behind GPT was because O&G was a non-renewable resource that came from the ground in Oklahoma and it can’t be replaced. If so, not sure that would apply to wind.

 

[CSCOTTOSUPOKES]

Not an Energy Guy so I am really just asking this, I don’t know the answer. But isn’t GPT a tax for production and O&G is also taxed again on the sale? I thought the thinking behind GPT was because O&G was a non-renewable resource that came from the ground in Oklahoma and it can’t be replaced. If so, not sure that would apply to wind.

Oil and gas wells are not subject to ad valor property taxes payable to landowners...wind turbines are. As much BS as the oil and gas lobby wants to feed you, they’re getting plenty of dumbass kickbacks they don’t need.

Decrease wind tax credits? All for it. Half about half? Let’s see if the big oil and gas in this state would do the same. My educated guess based on plenty of historical evidence is they’ll throw a fit.

 

[cableok]

I am still unclear the reasoning behind the state law keeping local funds that pay for buildings to be used for classrooms.

In the Tulsa metro area alone:
We had couple of high schools that had indoor football practice facilities before OSU did.
We have one high school that has an aquatic center that is the best in the region.
A school with a state-of-the-art planetarium.
A school with a gymnasium that housed a NCAA conference tournament.
A couple of schools with a turf baseball and softball field, plus indoor facilities for those sports.
Several brand new basketball gymnasium. A school with an indoor golf facility.
Two schools just built nice new buildings for their administration.
A school with a brand new building solely for music practice.
A huge performing arts theater that houses concerts for semi-major acts.
A school that put a turf field for their middle school.

 

[poke2001]

Oil and gas wells are not subject to ad valor property taxes payable to landowners...wind turbines are. As much BS as the oil and gas lobby wants to feed you, they’re getting plenty of dumbass kickbacks they don’t need.

Decrease wind tax credits? All for it. Half about half? Let’s see if the big oil and gas in this state would do the same. My educated guess based on plenty of historical evidence is they’ll throw a fit.

Remove all tax credits from every industry. Let all businesses play on a level field. Doesn’t matter if they like it or not...

You could also lower the top end rate and still raise revenue. We don’t need higher corporate taxes, we need more paying...

 

[AC_Exotic]

The lottery was meant to boost funding for education not be a substantial source of it. To act as if it does nothing is more folly.

It would have done something if the same slimy lawmakers that pushed us to pass it didn't immediately cut the amount of school revenue equal to the amount the lottery was taking in the first chance opportunity they had.

In Arkansas, my son gets 2k in college scholarship money per semester from the state lottery that will increase per year over his academic career. Every Arky kid in college gets that same benefit. That's what a state lottery that works for people looks like.

If Oklahoma didn't have a long history throughout it's statehood of crooks and shakedown artists serving as politicians, the poor citizens might get some bank out of their buck.

 

[long-duc-dong]

The lottery was meant to boost funding for education not be a substantial source of it. To act as if it does nothing is more folly.

I believe your boy Brad Henry sold us on the number $300 million the lottery would generate for education.

 

[Tulsaaggieson]

We should:

Increase GPT to 7%.
Restore income tax to where it was a few years ago.
Fire about 400 superintendents and their staff, consolidating districts.
Increase fuel taxes to what they did in this new law maybe even an extra penny.
.01 sales tax
Tax the casinos. Not sure amounts or logistics, but should be equal to O&G
End wind subsidies and tax at same 7% rate as O&G
Go for the hotel tax.

Above is likely far more revenue than proposed...great. Give teachers a raise, fund the shit out classrooms. Then, as @long-duc-dong previously stated, penalize any school or teacher that doesn’t have increased test scores in 2 years. Take funding away, start firing people.

You can't tax the casinos. And FYI balls and dice will not generate 22 million for the state. You would be lucky to get 2. I would predict less.