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Democrats launch 'Green New Deal'

I'm just reiterating what the brain power behind the Green New Deal has proposed. 100% clean and renewable energy, not just 100% renewable. That doesn't leave any spot for airplanes unless we've got some wind, solar, or battery powered models on the horizon.

"Carbon capture" sounds like we're accepting defeat before we even begin.
No I read the bill now. It also says net zero, so carbon capture is allowed to offset emissions.

The weight of batteries need to hold as much energy as the fuel tanks in a Boeing 787 would weigh as much as six empty 787s (granted electric motors are 3x more efficient than turbofans so you would only need two 787s worth of batteries). I don't think battery powered flight is feasible with out a quantum leap in storage technology.
 
No I read the bill now. It also says net zero, so carbon capture is allowed to offset emissions.

The weight of batteries need to hold as much energy as the fuel tanks in a Boeing 787 would weigh as much as six empty 787s (granted electric motors are 3x more efficient than turbofans so you would only need two 787s worth of batteries). I don't think battery powered flight is feasible with out a quantum leap in storage technology.
Ahhh, gotcha. So many different iterations of the goals gets confusing. "100% clean and renewable" doesn't actually mean "100% clean and renewable" because we can "carbon capture."

Where will we be getting our jet fuel? Do we have battery powered battle tanks on the horizon?
 
Ahhh, gotcha. So many different iterations of the goals gets confusing. "100% clean and renewable" doesn't actually mean "100% clean and renewable" because we can "carbon capture."

Where will we be getting our jet fuel? Do we have battery powered battle tanks on the horizon?
You gotta shoot for the moon if you want to land among the stars.

I'm okay with banning battle tanks.
 
You gotta shoot for the moon if you want to land among the stars.

I'm okay with banning battle tanks.
Sure, sure. So where are we going to get jet fuel? Are refiners going to just throw away roughly 72% of their product? Hopefully we won't be selling it thus encouraging other non 100% clean and renewable energy countries to continue polluting.

Where are we with commitments to 100% clean and renewable energy within 10 years from the other 194 countries in the world? Remember, it's the aggregate that counts, not an individual country's contribution.
 
She'll have a very stout primary challenger in 2022, if huge numbers of her party fall for this and get their asses handed to them in 2020. She may not make it past 2020, probably already people moving into the district to challenge her then.
 
She’ll be challenged in a primary next year. She may keep her seat but there will be challenge.
 
She's probably just beefing up the "how we are actually going to do this stuff" part with all of the costs and technical details.
I think she's already said she would just print money. No more details needed. Of course, she's going to need a crap load of workers to rebuild all the buildings and infrastructure. There are currently about 6 million "help wanted" signs out now which nobody can or wants to fill. She'll have to import a couple hundred million more laborers to fill those jobs. There won't be sufficient water/sewage treatment facilities for those people so we all can make like San Francisco and watch shit float through our streets.
 
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Sure, sure. So where are we going to get jet fuel? Are refiners going to just throw away roughly 72% of their product? Hopefully we won't be selling it thus encouraging other non 100% clean and renewable energy countries to continue polluting.

Where are we with commitments to 100% clean and renewable energy within 10 years from the other 194 countries in the world? Remember, it's the aggregate that counts, not an individual country's contribution.
They can use biofuels for jet fuel.

Other countries will be so jealous of our land of prosperity that they will quickly follow suit.

The technologies developed can also be exported.
 
I have no idea, I was just pointing out that Nuclear Fusion is a clean and renewable energy source, and the only one we know of now that has the potential to supply the amounts of power needed for all of humanity for the foreseeable future

But if it was a ready technology (and its not), you'd still be 10 years away from building a commercial power plant to use it (given the NIMBY principles, lawsuits, and regulatory factors), thus fusion can't even be considered as part of this plan. This plan assume we can go 100% renewables via solar panels and wind turbines in 10 years. Currently 17% of US energy is created using renewable sources, half of which is hydroelectric which has little scalability. That means Wind and Solar would have to expand more than 10-fold to meet current electricity demand levels. This would be a laughable position even before the cost of such a plan is considered.
 
I think she's already said she would just print money. No more details needed. Of course, she's going to need a crap load of workers to rebuild all the buildings and infrastructure. There are currently about 6 million "help wanted" signs out now which nobody can or wants to fill. She'll have to import a couple hundred million more laborers to fill those jobs. There won't be sufficient water/sewage treatment facilities for those people so we all can make like San Francisco and watch shit float through our streets.
We're definitely going to need to bring in a bunch of people, more than you indicated. Once the government starts providing a living wage, housing, and healthcare to the unwilling to work people as outlined in the Green New Deal, the labor participation rate is going to plummet. I'd wager a decent amount of the immigrants we bring in are going to want in on that action as well.
 
They can use biofuels for jet fuel.

Other countries will be so jealous of our land of prosperity that they will quickly follow suit.

The technologies developed can also be exported.
Burning biofuels produces carbon emissions. Sorry.
 
We're definitely going to need to bring in a bunch of people, more than you indicated. Once the government starts providing a living wage, housing, and healthcare to the unwilling to work people as outlined in the Green New Deal, the labor participation rate is going to plummet. I'd wager a decent amount of the immigrants we bring in are going to want in on that action as well.

And just think about how many of 'em we'll need to build the floating high-speed rail system to Hawaii.....
 
Did you black out our carbon capture discussion?
Oh, no, damn, yeah, my bad. Carbon capture.

But still, none of this is necessary. Only the aggregate matters. The US is one individual country on a planet with 195 total countries. Even if all the other countries stop producing carbon pollution, I'm good with the US continuing as is and being the only carbon polluter if the aggregate is 50% less than it is right now.
 
Oh, no, damn, yeah, my bad. Carbon capture.

But still, none of this is necessary. Only the aggregate matters. The US is one individual country on a planet with 195 total countries. Even if all the other countries stop producing carbon pollution, I'm good with the US continuing as is and being the only carbon polluter if the aggregate is 50% less than it is right now.
is there a path to that?
 
Oh, no, damn, yeah, my bad. Carbon capture.

But still, none of this is necessary. Only the aggregate matters. The US is one individual country on a planet with 195 total countries. Even if all the other countries stop producing carbon pollution, I'm good with the US continuing as is and being the only carbon polluter if the aggregate is 50% less than it is right now.

The AOC plan is ridiculously unrealistic. But, every successful undertaking starts somewhere. It doesn’t hurt to at least discuss some of these ideas if the human race wants to gradually try to reach certain goals.
 
Like are the other countries reducing their emissions to the point where the use can keep the status quo and achieve an aggregate reduction of 50%?
If they aren't, they need to start. I'm not going to give up any of our creature comforts as the world's wealthiest nation and biggest carbon polluter. Countries that are a lot poorer and less developed than the US are the easiest places to start.
 
If they aren't, they need to start. I'm not going to give up any of our creature comforts as the world's wealthiest nation and biggest carbon polluter. Countries that are a lot poorer and less developed than the US are the easiest places to start.
I guess we'll see
 
The AOC plan is ridiculously unrealistic. But, every successful undertaking starts somewhere. It doesn’t hurt to at least discuss some of these ideas if the human race wants to gradually try to reach certain goals.
So what level of atmospheric CO2 will produce a static climate? How many people should be given a living wage, free heathcare, retirement, and housing for being unwilling to work? How many people should our federal government employ? How much of your income and assets are you willing to give to the federal government to provide a decent life for people who are unwilling to work? Are you willing to give up your freedom in healthcare choices to the federal government?

Yes, this Green New Deal is unrealistic. Does it really deserve any conversation outside of the ridicule it's getting? Why seriously discuss something that unrealistic? I'm buying my wife a new car this summer and I'm not browsing the lots of Ferrari dealerships talking to salesmen about the Chevy Impala I can actually afford. If I want to talk Chevy Impalas, I go to the Chevy dealership as a start.
 
I guess we'll see
Hmmmm, is the guy that was poo pooing my ideas of the government banning large houses and fancy cars now in favor of the government forcing those types of choices on people? Or does your response mean we'll see if the poor countries can get the planet to the 50% reduction? If they can't do it alone, there's always India, Russia, and China.
 
So, what is the over / under on how many airplane trips AOC takes this year?

All those libs in Seattle that work at Boeing and the suppliers it creates, wonder what they are thinking.

AOC going to help republicans get elected.
 
So what level of atmospheric CO2 will produce a static climate? How many people should be given a living wage, free heathcare, retirement, and housing for being unwilling to work? How many people should our federal government employ? How much of your income and assets are you willing to give to the federal government to provide a decent life for people who are unwilling to work? Are you willing to give up your freedom in healthcare choices to the federal government?

Yes, this Green New Deal is unrealistic. Does it really deserve any conversation outside of the ridicule it's getting? Why seriously discuss something that unrealistic? I'm buying my wife a new car this summer and I'm not browsing the lots of Ferrari dealerships talking to salesmen about the Chevy Impala I can actually afford. If I want to talk Chevy Impalas, I go to the Chevy dealership as a start.
Obama level understanding of politics.
 
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Hmmmm, is the guy that was poo pooing my ideas of the government banning large houses and fancy cars now in favor of the government forcing those types of choices on people? Or does your response mean we'll see if the poor countries can get the planet to the 50% reduction? If they can't do it alone, there's always India, Russia, and China.
Neither. Read the bill
 
Hmmmm, is the guy that was poo pooing my ideas of the government banning large houses and fancy cars now in favor of the government forcing those types of choices on people? Or does your response mean we'll see if the poor countries can get the planet to the 50% reduction? If they can't do it alone, there's always India, Russia, and China.
I did not poo poo the idea, I said I would support it.
 
Huh? No the aggregate
Just making sure. Then you're on board with the Green New Deal being a load of crap because the carbon emissions from the US don't matter. I think we started the conversation somewhere near there anyhow before we got sidetracked on silly shit like bio jet fuel and battery operated ships.
 
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