I know the sky is currently falling but at last year’s NCAA tournament we were basically tied with Penn State going into the finals. That was 2 weeks after tying OU for the Big 12 title.
Cowboys vs Mizzou
- Thread starter turfpoke
- Start date
Sort of the point. We had a really good ncaa tourney and still ended up 30 points behind the champion. I don’t believe we are close unless several of our guys jump levels next season. Something we haven’t seen…at least this year.
I don’t really care where we were heading into the finals I wanna know where we are when the tournament is over
Did we beat them?
No, we did not. We got third....pretty darn good you say!
But OSU Wrestling is the single greatest collegiate sports program, ever. A third every once in a while is great, if you are winning some too. But we aren't winning any anymore. And I don't think we will with the system currently in place. That's the point.
The glory days are over unless we do something radically different.
Our past level of success requires an incredible caretaker. Someone who is all in....recruiting, fundraising, facility upgrades, RTC development, fan involvement, radio announcing, everything, every facet. I don't believe we have that now. (I know we don't)
Was Birdwell not available at 125? I know he would of had his redshirt pulled but honestly it’s not like he’s going to be a future star for us. Why not wrestle him and give ourselves a chance. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more weak and dejected performance by a OSU wrestler with yoku. That kid has no business being on the mat in a D1 dual. That was a poor decision on the coaches part. Definitely don’t blame the kid bc he just shouldn’t of been out there.
Spot on but I will argue OSU wrestling is the single most successful team/program in American sports history - collegiate or professional. No program or franchise has more Championships.
It's not one dual loss. It's losses in 3 out of our last 4 duals. Has that ever happened before in a non-probation year? It's coming off the first decade ever without a national championship and getting close to our longest national title drought. For the standard OSU wrestling has set through the years - the sky is falling. Have we ever not been at least the second best program? Currently we're behind Penn State, Iowa and probably/maybe Ohio State.
Vent all you want. Facts are we win all 3 if our National Champion 197 pounder was in the lineup. Hard to win when there are a couple of guys in slumps and missing two starters. I’d say we are behind Iowa and Penn State, no on Ohio State.
Radio announcing? It’s been a rough few weeks. I wouldn’t even know where to start on comparing our wrestling program’s radio announcing to others.
I grew up listening to Jack Griffith on the radio, Art Griffith's son. He was far, far superior to what we have now. And I don't listen to the others either but our announcing is stale and lazy.
Last weekend something was off with the whole team. Maybe it was the AJ incident, who knows. And today we were down 2 starters. But duals don't matter anyway. Nearly every top team has proven it. They rest guys, duck guys, even take forfeits.
I don't think the sky is falling, but I think we need changes to be on top again. Recruiting has improved recently, but we need those guys to develop/deliver. And we badly need to jump into the RTC/NIL pool. Otherwise it will be tough to win again. PSU had 4 champs and didn't sit still. They added 3 new guys and another coach.
We are so far away from PSU and Iowa it’s laughable. We will not win another Title with this Game plan we have had for the last 15 years
I know it doesn’t count because we got 2nd. But we were a slip by Gelogaev away in 2013 or 2014.
Unless you’re willing to run it like a business and have the money to do it, it will be tough. I’d love to be able to add a couple of high end transfers each year. For the life of me I don’t understand why Beard stayed at Penn State. The guy waits 2 years to get in the line up. Then he AAs and they bring in a guy for his spot. Plott was a top 2 recruit. How in the world can we recruit better than that? Now people on here are saying he’s a one trick pony. He jacked up his shoulder and has 4 years of eligibility left. When do you pull the trigger on bringing in someone else for his spot? Who are you going to bring? We have 5 guys in the lineup that are freshmen eligibility wise. 2 sophomores. 2 juniors. 1 senior.
Beard, Seth Nevills & Joe Lee can't transfer until their RTC checks clear. In the meantime they'll help out by carrying the team luggage on road trips.
I don't know what's up with Plott. He hardly ever shoots his sweep single anymore. That was his go to attack in HS. Now he shoots a sliding single/double.
derek white was a struggling 97 at this point in his career up from a 65 title four years earlier in high school
to ask surber or be in the position to need surber at heavy in this point in his career is wrong
it’s a program problem
This is well said and accurate "to ask Surber or be in the position to need Surber at heavy in this point in his career is wrong." Absolutely agree. I put it on the coaching and not on Surber.
Every team has some holes in it. There are only 9.9 scholarships. NIL game can change that for everyone. Penn State started the NIL several years before everyone else. The way I see it there are a few options.
Hope someone with deep pockets like OSU wrestling.
Hope several people with mildly deep pockets like OSU wrestling.
Start a grass roots movement to get a whole bunch of us to pitch in.
NIL money is more important than facilities IMO if you’re starting from scratch. I’m like everyone else, I’d like to have it all.
I am sure that the other 125's Witcraft and Birdwell weighed over 130 on Friday night. You can not cut very many pounds in a weeks time and so the Louisiana kid was probably just a few pounds over 125 and therefore he wrestles. It didn't turn out good but was probably our only option besides forfeiting. Momentum, luck and smart wrestling is not going our way lately. For 2 weeks or maybe 15 years
John said a couple of weeks ago that this team is soft. I sure can’t argue with that assessment.
Cherry pick much?
G has only wrestled Nick Lee once according to wrestle stat and pinned him. I watched the match.
Nolf and Joe’s careers obviously took drastically different paths.
Ruth was a 3 timer and Chris a 2 timer. I don’t recall them wrestling in college. I do remember Matt Brown not being able to figure out how to beat Chris.
Cael has done a fantastic job developing wrestlers but let’s not act like there haven’t been plenty of blue chippers that didn’t pan out in that PSU room. Not sure how many teams have had 4 individual champs and still didn’t win the team title. At least one.
I saw Birdwell on the bench, so he made the trip. It may have been an option to wrestle him today and then use the redshirt next year.
I also saw Travis, Haas, Mechler & Manibog on the bench. Travis is from MO, so it makes sense that he went. Not sure why Haas would go when they seem committed to Stika at this point. But Mechler & Manibog going is a little puzzling. Maybe sending a message to Wyatt.
I also saw Travis, Haas, Mechler & Manibog on the bench. Travis is from MO, so it makes sense that he went. Not sure why Haas would go when they seem committed to Stika at this point. But Mechler & Manibog going is a little puzzling. Maybe sending a message to Wyatt.
Dumb wrestling from young guys and some bad breaks …
I’m still standing on the theory that, in most cases, we are small for our weights. I’d like to see us at least experiment with growing our large framed wrestlers into the next weight up. We have two wrestlers on the squad with strength advantages at their weight and that’s Daton and AJ.
I think Plott is fine by tournament time. He’s kind of become a one sided wrestler, because I don’t think he fully trusts his left shoulder yet.
Mastro concerns me. It looks like a pretty tough cut. Can he ever be strong enough at 25 to get off bottom against good wrestlers?
Young should be pushing through the freshman wall. He’s got the talent to wrestle above where he’s been seeded.
Really proud of G. He’s gaining confidence and that’s what he’ll need in the tournament against the better guys.
Wyatt is probably my biggest complaint. After all the time he’s spent in the program, he can’t keep people off his legs. He showed last year that he can raise his level. He’ll have to be much better than we’ve seen.
Wittlake just feels like a confidence thing to me. He’s stout defensively and has shown he can get to shots. Problem has been that he gets to a leg and tends to stop. It’s like you can almost see him thinking.
Geer has shown us who he is. He’ll wrestle above seed, because his gas tank is good. He’ll beat better wrestlers late in the tournament just because he has more left.
Surber will end up being really good with 25 more pounds of muscle. He’s going to be hit and miss.
I thought we’d be better this year. I’m unsure why we aren’t developing. I hope John takes a hard look in the off season.
I’m still standing on the theory that, in most cases, we are small for our weights. I’d like to see us at least experiment with growing our large framed wrestlers into the next weight up. We have two wrestlers on the squad with strength advantages at their weight and that’s Daton and AJ.
I think Plott is fine by tournament time. He’s kind of become a one sided wrestler, because I don’t think he fully trusts his left shoulder yet.
Mastro concerns me. It looks like a pretty tough cut. Can he ever be strong enough at 25 to get off bottom against good wrestlers?
Young should be pushing through the freshman wall. He’s got the talent to wrestle above where he’s been seeded.
Really proud of G. He’s gaining confidence and that’s what he’ll need in the tournament against the better guys.
Wyatt is probably my biggest complaint. After all the time he’s spent in the program, he can’t keep people off his legs. He showed last year that he can raise his level. He’ll have to be much better than we’ve seen.
Wittlake just feels like a confidence thing to me. He’s stout defensively and has shown he can get to shots. Problem has been that he gets to a leg and tends to stop. It’s like you can almost see him thinking.
Geer has shown us who he is. He’ll wrestle above seed, because his gas tank is good. He’ll beat better wrestlers late in the tournament just because he has more left.
Surber will end up being really good with 25 more pounds of muscle. He’s going to be hit and miss.
I thought we’d be better this year. I’m unsure why we aren’t developing. I hope John takes a hard look in the off season.
I think the only weights we are small at are 141 and 285. I’ve heard several announcers on our away duals talk about how Mastro looks pretty big for 125. He definitely has some height on most of the guys. I’m not sure how hard the cut has been for him but maybe there is some concern there with his strength and energy levels, which you need to get off bottom. But it didn’t look like he was having that issue earlier in the season. Maybe it was the level of competition he was wrestling. If Mastro can’t make 125 in the coming years then we are going to have a big log jam at 133, 141 and 149 with both Mastro’s, Carter, Daton, Voinovich, Jordan Williams and probably Cael Hughes.
Gfeller was having trouble making the cut to 149 at the Stanford dual and said that was the reason for the poor performance. I haven’t seen any other weight disadvantages besides 141/285.
Personally im not that worried about how we have been losing duals. No I don't like to watch us lose and am very frustrated about it. But we have been down 1 NCAA champ and if we had AJ we would of likely won all 3 of those.
Im more concerned about how we have some guys who are losing matches they should be winning and someone please correct me if im wrong but besides Surber against the SDSU kid on friday I don't think we have had one wrestler that has had a upset win over a higher ranked wrestler. I am looking at Geer and Wittlake specifically with both having a couple of opportunities. Come tournament time those losses are going to hurt their seedings and make it that much harder to get a top 3 finish. Nobody really cares about what your dual record is from year to year besides your own fans. Programs are judged more off of how you preform at the NCAA tournament and for a young team like ours that has a lot to do with seedings and luck of drawls.
Might be unpopular but I can't say that I agree with this statement anymore. 26 of those championships came before 1970 against a small field of opponents.
Peep the numbers: https://www.ncaa.com/history/wrestling/d1
In the last 52 years (since 1970), Iowa State has 5 team championships, OSU has 8, Penn State has 11, Iowa has 24. We have been chasing the big dogs for some time now.
It'd be really interesting to hear the coaches' philosophy on all of this in context of the broader world of wrestling. What's working, what isn't working, etc. It'd take some serious introspection into a variety of processes that we fans don't necessarily understand.
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I also wonder if the coaches don't know the best way to handle injury or when wrestlers are dinged up. Yes John wrestled thru with success while injured that doesn't mean it will work for all. If Mastro was dinged up then why wrestle him against SD state, we didn't need him for that dual, we needed him for Mizzu and Iowa.
Mastro beat the Minny kid. There are bound to be a few others, but I get the same feeling you do.
Mastro got hurt in the SDSU dual.I also wonder if the coaches don't know the best way to handle injury or when wrestlers are dinged up. Yes John wrestled thru with success while injured that doesn't mean it will work for all. If Mastro was dinged up then why wrestle him against SD state, we didn't need him for that dual, we needed him for Mizzu and Iowa.
Mastro just beat Teske also. High recruit that started at Penn State before transferring to UNI. Teske nearly majored Mastrogiovanni last season. I’m not sure this fits the narrative though.
Mastro is going to AA but y'all don't seem ready to hear that.
