Well, sure, me too, but that's not what I asked. Why are teachers unions against transparency?
Censorship in America
- Thread starter aliabedi
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Having a left-wing Pakistani continue to lecture on freedom of anything is beyond laughable.
The article mentions more allegations than actually providing real evidence of the claims it is making. On top of that the article is highly opinionated. I would not use this to back up any kind of argument to say book banning is alive and well in the US today. With that being said the censorship it talks about is pornographic, pedophilia, as well as culturally sensitive. The book Out of Darkness uses words that would be banned by most to be of use in the classroom. The reason why they are banned from the library is because teachers use the library to base their curriculum on and what they can bring into the classroom. The question would be what is acceptable and what is not. Would you expect a teacher to stand at the front of a classroom and call someone a "N#$%%^#"? If you don't then why is it ok in the library? We have movie ratings when we go the theater, but we will are going to allow our children to have access to books talking about topics that are verging on pornographic in their descriptions and explanations. If parents do not want schools to teach about sex and leave that to the parents then what books do you allow and which do you not?
You have a problem with banning in general, but generalities don't work in this topic. It's easy to say you should not ban books, but in practice it becomes something that happens all the time. Would a class about being an African American in the US have required reading be the Mein Kompf? The answer is an easy no, but in saying no you have banned a book from that classroom. The answers in this debate are not as black and white as they may seem. It's no wonder it is heated as well, when parents are being told to sit down and shut up. Getting between mama bear and her cubs never ends well.
While I agree as well that kids can find any of this at their fingertips, it is not being supplied by the teachers, or the school. The question really becomes who do want to be discussing this with the children, and who's responsibility is it? Nothing is fully censored in America, and access to anything at any time is available. What parents are saying is, it's not the schools responsibility to teach these things, its the parents.
In your example of kids having access to what they want on the internet you miss the point. The point is it's the parents that either knowingly or unknowingly allow that access it's not taxpayer funded public schools providing that access. Believe it or not there is a large group of people out there that are of the belief public education should only be teaching academic subjects and stay the hell out of the social justice warrior business.
In public-school libraries across the nation do they allow access or at least try to deny access to porn sites? if so, why? Why are you banning porn from school libraries? From what I understand every school tries to deny access to these sites because it's not healthy for the kids, but we have some in education defending access to books that vividly describe and illustrate these acts.
Hey Pakistan! WHERE ARE YOUR JEWS?
I agreed with your whole post till the very end: "Nothing is fully censored in America". I believed that until I saw the attacks on those with anti-Vaccine beliefs.
Valid statement. I should quantify that to "until recently." But at the same time we still have been able to get the censored information.
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Saw a Friend of mine thats a HS Teacher post a meme on Facebook a few days ago that read. "Don't whine about Cancel Culture if you want Books Banned"
Thread is a great textbook example of leftist playbook running. Intentionally conflate books like “To Kill a Mockingbird” and “White Fragility” to provide cover for what they want to do.
Mix them up and then you have to allow both no? Remove outright pedophilia grooming material and just squeal “cEnSoRsHiP” while conveniently leaving out that grown adults can still go buy it if they like. That’s the same thing, right?
Mix them up and then you have to allow both no? Remove outright pedophilia grooming material and just squeal “cEnSoRsHiP” while conveniently leaving out that grown adults can still go buy it if they like. That’s the same thing, right?
Pakistan has a sizeable Catholic population and they aren’t treated well.
Strangely enough, women aren't treated well either.
What do you mean by exploiting racial differences?
I provided you an article that discussed the books.
All teachers unions are not the same. They do not all act the same. Grouping all teacher unions as the same is what partisans do so they can attack all teacher unions. It is rather lazy but it plays into the divide that both parties thrive on.
I believe any teacher union should support transparency. The local teacher union I am a part of has transparency. My union does not actively attempt to keep parents from knowing what is being taught. If it did so, there would be major pushback from myself and most other teachers I know.
We do teach academic subjects. However, many subjects cannot be taught without referencing what some would label social justice. For example, teaching American history entails you teach the truth about American history. Some, on both sides of the partisan divide, may object to what is taught. They will label it whatever they want to label it. That doesn't mean though their concerns are valid. Public education isn't going to satisfy everyone or align with everyone's political agenda.
Parents have the freedom in this country to send their children to schools outside the public system. They can also elect home schooling. If parents want only their viewpoint taught to their children on certain subjects, options for this are available to them. Public education cannot be forced to always align with the political opinions of everyone. That would be impossible to accomplish and would destroy public education. Which I often wonder is the ultimate goal for some.
As for porn, what you label porn may not be viewed as porn by others. There are some extremists who would label something porn that is clearly not porn. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but everyone's opinions can't dictate public education. At some point, decisions have to be made as to what is allowed and what is not. I have no objection to parent input on this but parents must realize their individual viewpoints are not always representative of the broader community.
The notion that students are intentionally being exposed to porn or other issues in public schools that are not readily available to them by other means is false. I know of no educator who supports exposing children to porn. In fact, the opposite is true. Educators take their job seriously and strive to provide a well-rounded and balance education to students. It is very unfortunate that what we do is so often politicalized by political parties for their own political gain.
I fully agree with you that the issues involved here are not as black and white as some would want them to be. That is why the those political partisans who often think in black and white terms are doing a disservice with their attacks upon public education.
Parents have a role to play in public education. However, individual parents do not have the right to force their political viewpoints on everyone else as it relates to public education. A community consensus must be reached, and that will by definition offend some parents. At some point, some parents have to be told to sit down and shut up. If those parents have an issue with this and insist on having it their way all the time, then they have the option to pull their children out of a public school and place them in a school where only their viewpoint will be honored.
Telling me as a parent to sit down and shut up would be be a very bad move on any school officials part. That will only enflame matters. You say on one hand that the rights of parents should be respected and turn right around and say screw parents. At least that's how it comes out.
I don't think anyone is against teaching real history including all the wrongs of history but teach all the history. If you want to teach about slavery teach about all of slavery not just the history the black activist want taught. Teach how prevalent slavery has been throughout history going back to the beginning of time and all of those that were involved including the predominate position of the black race. Teach about how people in this country went to war at the cost of hundreds of thousands of lives to end the practice of slavery. And teach these kids we cannot view and judge history through the norms of today. Culture and society have changed dramatically for the better over the last 100 to 150 years and that has to be taken into consideration. If we held every country to the same standard some try to hold this country to, we are still head and shoulders above most every country in the world when you look at their history. Try teaching that if you want to teach something not how bad this country has been.
be a better white person exploits racial differences
What I stated was that parents have a role to play in public education but not every parent's personal opinions or viewpoints are always going to be endorsed. It is impossible to make every parent happy if every parent is insistent that their viewpoint or political opinion be honored. A community consensus has to be arrived at and if a parent has a problem with that consensus, then the parent is the one with the problem.
For example, consider a parent who may object to their child's school honoring black history month and highlighting black Americans who contributed to the history of our nation. A parent can express that objection. However, if the community elects to proceed with honoring black history month, that one parent should not be allowed to dictate their opinion upon everyone else. At some point, that parent has to be told to sit down and shut up. They are entitled to their opinion. They can withdraw their student from the school. They don't, however, get to demand that their opinion be honored above the community consensus.
thats the book title in the article you posted
Are you serious with this BS. This whole ordeal is not about just a few parents opposing the curriculum, it's a large number of parents. The Southlake School Board tried this BS and got their ass voted out of office. The state of Virginia turned red because of this same issue. The same will happen to other school boards across the country that are pushing this racist curriculum on our kids. It's not just a few parents it's the majority.
Which is being a better white person than what?
Do you even know what that book is about or are you just outraged by the title?
As one who has taught American History and World History, I can attest that everything you mentioned with one exception is taught about slavery.
The origins of slavery are taught. The Civil War is taught. The positions of the Union and the Confederacy are taught.
I've never taught we cannot view or judge history through the norms of today. Indeed, we must learn from the mistakes found in history so that we don't repeat them. The norm today that slavery is wrong should be used in studying the history of slavery. The norm today that killing 6 million Jews is wrong should be used in studying the history of the Holocaust and the factors that led to the Holocaust.
I also have never taught how bad our country has been. I have taught about the mistakes our country has made, slavery being one, while teaching the progress we have made. We don't whitewash the mistakes of the past. We study them to learn from them.
It often times can be about a few parents. Not always.
If a community decides to elect a new school board, that is one way a community consensus can be formed. However, I would warn you in trusting too much in such power. What you use against your political enemies can just as easily be used against you in the future.
I disagree too that racist curriculum is being taught to our students. I've never taught or seen racist curriculum. I do understand though this is the current fear being pushed upon some Americans for political partisan reasons.
This is utter nonsense. Conflating teaching history (good, bad, otherwise) with what is being pushed now is simply camouflage for an agenda.
I learned about all sorts of negative aspects of the American journey. People that say otherwise tend to have been the ones asleep in the corner back in 10th grade.
I know. There is nothing wrong with teaching the negative aspects of American history instead of whitewashing it all.
I am not the one advocating against teaching American history for what it is, warts and all.
Nobody (reasonable) is advocating that. So stop using it as cover.
If what you say is true that's great, but the fact remains some schools are pushing the racist angle. I know for a fact they tried in Southlake. When the parents confronted the school board, the school board first lied to the parents. When parents came back with the proof it was in fact being taught, they were essentially told to shut up they were not to question what the school board did. The very next election the school board was sent packing. To try and claim this is not happening is a flat out lie.
Hardly anything at all. It gets a passing reference when dealing with recent history as it relates to the sexuality and gender debate occurring in our nation and around the world, but that is really it. And that is usually at the very end of a semester when many recent history topics are being covered.
Students though are welcomed in my classes and my school based upon the gender they identify with. We don't discriminate or single them out. We make no issue about it at all. My job as a teacher does not call on me getting involved in all of that. Nor would I want to.
2012Bearcat just advocated for it on this thread. His own words:
"And teach these kids we cannot view and judge history through the norms of today. Culture and society have changed dramatically for the better over the last 100 to 150 years and that has to be taken into consideration. If we held every country to the same standard some try to hold this country to, we are still head and shoulders above most every country in the world when you look at their history. Try teaching that if you want to teach something not how bad this country has been."
What do you consider a racist angle to be?
On top of that, does the mistake of one school board indict all school boards around the nation?
Well, that makes it better.
Kids shouldn't be exposed to that kind of perversity.
I know what the book is about, I've actually read that book.
Do you know what it is about?
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