Are injuries contagious?

[tom_v31]

I remember reading a story a few years ago about Terry Bradshaw. I tried finding it but couldn’t. It may be another QB great for all I know.
He started out his career constantly getting injured and one day he got tired of being afraid of injury and decided that he didn’t care anymore and his injury problems went way down. I’m not talking about the injuries that ended his career but just the ones at the beginning.
So, are injuries more of a mental state of mind or are they just bad luck and a natural consequence of the sport

 

[Air_Thurman]

I remember reading a story a few years ago about Terry Bradshaw. I tried finding it but couldn’t. It may be another QB great for all I know.
He started out his career constantly getting injured and one day he got tired of being afraid of injury and decided that he didn’t care anymore and his injury problems went way down. I’m not talking about the injuries that ended his career but just the ones at the beginning.
So, are injuries more of a mental state of mind or are they just bad luck and a natural consequence of the sport

I think there are absolutely a mental side to it. Plott and Sheets are clearly hurt but I think they are making some mental mistakes too. That being said I don't think Plott wishing his shoulder would quit popping out is going to work. Dude is just hurt.

 

[tom_v31]

I placed this post because we have been injury plagued for the past few years and I see some other programs or even great wrestlers that never experience season altering injuries

 

[Wrassler17]

I think you need to change up the training/practice regime for some guys to reduce their risk of injury. Preston Weigel comes to mind. He was constantly getting banged up until the coaches told him to "listen to his body" and cut practice short when he felt something. Maybe they need to do the same with Plott.

 

[alex1fly]

Seriously, what’s going on with all the injuries? It’s not just this squad - it’s been happening for several years in a row now. Yes, wrestling is a tough sport, but I've been following this team since the early 90s and if memory serves, injuries were rare. Nowadays we're getting season-ending injuries left and right, and some of them are in practice! So what's going on? There have been too many over the past 4 years to not see it as a pattern, for me at least. Are guys refusing to rest? Are coaches mismanaging their athletes? Far be it from me to come in and act like an expert, so my apologies if it comes across that way... but dang, these are hard questions and if there's a systemic issue going on it needs to be fixed first for the sake of our athletes, and second for the long term reputation and dynasty of our program.

Preston Weigel - several season-ending injuries
Boo - several season-ending injuries
Brock - several season-ending injuries
Jojo - several injuries
Montalvo - currently injured
Plott - currently injured
Sheets - currently injured
Gfeller - currently injured, injured last year

 

[Wrassler17]

Not to hijack the thread, but here's a quick little story about John...

We know John was tough, he won his first NCAA title in 1987 with a broken hand. Two weeks after that, with his hand still heavily taped, he beat the 1983/1985 Russian World Champion in a dual.

But I read another nice story on the Iowa board a couple of years ago. The poster said in John's soph year (Feb '85) he was wrestling Greg Randall in Carver. Randall got the first takedown and there was a long injury timeout because John got hurt (later reported as a dislocated shoulder). The poster said no one screamed stalling, Carver was quiet like a church. The poster said he couldn't believe it. Finally, in tears, John injury defaulted with the crowd giving a light applause. The poster said it was though the crowd sensed John's greatness before he was great. He said he always remembered it and how devastated John was because he couldn't continue.

 

[chasepollard]

Not to hijack the thread, but here's a quick little story about John...

We know John was tough, he won his first NCAA title in 1987 with a broken hand. Two weeks after that, with his hand still heavily taped, he beat the 1983/1985 Russian World Champion in a dual.

But I read another nice story on the Iowa board a couple of years ago. The poster said in John's soph year (Feb '85) he was wrestling Greg Randall in Carver. Randall got the first takedown and there was a long injury timeout because John got hurt (later reported as a dislocated shoulder). The poster said no one screamed stalling, Carver was quiet like a church. The poster said he couldn't believe it. Finally, in tears, John injury defaulted with the crowd giving a light applause. The poster said it was though the crowd sensed John's greatness before he was great. He said he always remembered it and how devastated John was because he couldn't continue.

Not true!

John Smith would've just used the dislocated arm to beat his opponent to death with.

John Smith would never injury default unless unconscious or dead, that is the truth. So, what really happened was the John dislocated his shoulder, and to avoid getting beat to death with an appendage, the Iowa guy injury defaulted.

 

[Wrassler17]

Not true!

John Smith would've just used the dislocated arm to beat his opponent to death with.

John Smith would never injury default unless unconscious or dead, that is the truth. So, what really happened was the John dislocated his shoulder, and to avoid getting beat to death with an appendage, the Iowa guy injury defaulted.

I had to look up the particulars after reading that post because it was way before I followed the program. John missed a month with the shoulder injury then beat Randall in the NCAA semis before losing to Jordan in the finals. And we know how things turned out after John lost to Jordan. Pretty pretty good.

 

[chasepollard]

I had to look up the particulars after reading that post because it was way before I followed the program. John missed a month with the shoulder injury then beat Randall in the NCAA semis before losing to Jordan in the finals. And we know how things turned out after John lost to Jordan. Pretty pretty good.

Chuck Norris folklore is really just true stories of John Smith.

He didn't lose to Jordan, he was overpowering his mind and giving himself something to focus on.

 

[Wrassler17]

Chuck Norris folklore is really just true stories of John Smith.

He didn't lose to Jordan, he was overpowering his mind and giving himself something to focus on.

Ha! Tougher than a $2 steak.

Check out the story Ethan Kyle tells around the 23:30 mark..."a lesser man would be dead right now".

 

[tom_v31]

Could it be a different mindset of the athletes now days than yesteryears. Maybe the grind it out mentality doesn’t translate well with this generation. My knee jerk reaction is to say that kids are kids and that’s a copout but evaluation and changing the approach may help

 

[tom_v31]

Chuck Norris folklore is really just true stories of John Smith.

He didn't lose to Jordan, he was overpowering his mind and giving himself something to focus on.

How many push-ups can John Smith do?

all of them

 

[chasepollard]

How many push-ups can John Smith do?

all of them

Come on man, John Smith doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

 

[alex1fly]

Could it be a different mindset of the athletes now days than yesteryears. Maybe the grind it out mentality doesn’t translate well with this generation. My knee jerk reaction is to say that kids are kids and that’s a copout but evaluation and changing the approach may help

Could be something like this. Whatever it is, I hope they figure it out. Wrestling is certainly different now with so much more access to recorded matches, technique videos, highlight reels, etc. Maybe the training approach could be modernized somewhat. Meet guys where they're at and train their minds more rather than making them cut 30 lbs. Look at Bo Nickal - dude wasn't cutting much weight but dominated everyone because his technique was great and he outsmarted his opponents. That to me is maybe a new style of wrestler.

 

[tom_v31]

Come on man, John Smith doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

I guess they would be called earth-downs

 

[JAY45]

John Smith went to the Virgin Islands
When he left, they were known simply as “The Islands”

 

[tom_v31]

John Smith went to the Virgin Islands
When he left, they were known simply as “The Islands”

Lol

 

[chasepollard]

John Smith can count to infinity.

 

[alex1fly]

As much as I love the puns, I'm a little surprised there isn't more interest in discussing OSU's constant injuries. We're looking at at least 14 major injuries over around 4 years among our starters alone, with at least half of them being season-enders! Does this not blow anyone else's mind? Who remembers the last season when we had a full lineup of starters? Or am I taking things out of context?

 

[tom_v31]

For me, it’s a major concern. My first thought is possibly overtraining. Which was mentioned, not changing up training programs. Many years ago, when I trained in high school, we never varied our daily routine and we had a ton of attrition and injuries. We were a ‘grind-it-out’ program.
Possibly, OSU doesn’t focus on the psychology as much as they should. That being said, I have truly no idea, that’s why I started the thread. I have not seen these kinds of injuries at other similar programs, or maybe I am only unaware, which is possible.

 

[Wrassler17]

So no more John Smith stories then?

Seriously though, the injury questions are fair. For us it's hard to say because we don't know the specifics of each case. Are the injuries happening in practice or during matches? You would have to think the coaches are making changes as necessary. I mentioned the Preston Weigel situation above, that was a change to his training. Another example is Boo. After we lost to Lehigh on tiebreakers last year, I posted that Boo should have pushed for bonus. Later I heard John say he told Boo (just returning from injury the year before) to ease his was back and always be aware of the wrestling positions that could cause a re-injury.

 

[tom_v31]

So no more John Smith stories then?

Seriously though, the injury questions are fair. For us it's hard to say because we don't know the specifics of each case. Are the injuries happening in practice or during matches? You would have to think the coaches are making changes as necessary. I mentioned the Preston Weigel situation above, that was a change to his training. Another example is Boo. After we lost to Lehigh on tiebreakers last year, I posted that Boo should have pushed for bonus. Later I heard John say he told Boo (just returning from injury the year before) to ease his was back and always be aware of the wrestling positions that could cause a re-injury.

I wonder if it is meant he fear of injury that causes the injuries

 

[chasepollard]

Sorry about the hijack.

 

[alex1fly]

Sorry about the hijack.

You're good. I'd love to sort this all out and fix it for the team

But seriously, we won't be winning any NCs with starters getting injured every season. And I know there's a reputation to maintain (i.e. winning Big 12), but it worries me to be sending out guys with injuries. Short term can turn into long term real quick.

 

[chasepollard]

You're good. I'd love to sort this all out and fix it for the team

But seriously, we won't be winning any NCs with starters getting injured every season. And I know there's a reputation to maintain (i.e. winning Big 12), but it worries me to be sending out guys with injuries. Short term can turn into long term real quick.

It does seem like we are more injured than other programs. But just recent history had Nolf with an ACL, Lee ACL, Marinelli ACL, Stoll was a shell of what he was, Kemerer, Brewer, Moisey, Nato and many others.

It is for sure part of the sport, but dang, it sure like it seems we get more of our part?

 

[OSUMatFan]

When we had our run in the years of Esposito and Jake Rosholt we had very few injuries. There was a thought that John backed off of training really hard at the end of the season and the guys were fresh and healthy. Prior to that kids were getting hurt in the room, but now it seems that the injuries occur when competing.

 

[tom_v31]

It does seem like we are more injured than other programs. But just recent history had Nolf with an ACL, Lee ACL, Marinelli ACL, Stoll was a shell of what he was, Kemerer, Brewer, Moisey, Nato and many others.

It is for sure part of the sport, but dang, it sure like it seems we get more of our part?

This year may be due to lack of wrestling, in general. People aren’t in fighting shape when they usually are this time of year. But that doesn’t explain other years. Also, those examples mostly come from different teams. We have a ton from one team

 

[alex1fly]

When we had our run in the years of Esposito and Jake Rosholt we had very few injuries. There was a thought that John backed off of training really hard at the end of the season and the guys were fresh and healthy. Prior to that kids were getting hurt in the room, but now it seems that the injuries occur when competing.

Brock's latest injury came from the practice room. So did Montalvo's. Didn't Plott's too? I recall him having those black straps on his shoulder all of a sudden in a match, rather than having a bad injury during a match. Hone's happened in a match, but then it's hard to suss out what's what when we aren't in the practice room.

The psychology of peaking may have something to do with it. Can't imagine you need to encourage these kids to be motivated and stoked to wrestle NCAAs. Letting them rest may be a better strategy than working them hard before NCAAs. So much of NCAAs is mental - desire, drive. If you don't have that fire, you aren't going to go far at NCAAs. So how do you best cultivate that fire?

 

[OHkie]

AJ has also been sporting a knee brace under his left knee pad.

 

[Cowguy]

For me, it’s a major concern. My first thought is possibly overtraining. Which was mentioned, not changing up training programs. Many years ago, when I trained in high school, we never varied our daily routine and we had a ton of attrition and injuries. We were a ‘grind-it-out’ program.
Possibly, OSU doesn’t focus on the psychology as much as they should. That being said, I have truly no idea, that’s why I started the thread. I have not seen these kinds of injuries at other similar programs, or maybe I am only unaware, which is possible.

I think we do overtrain. I’ve said this to others and I’ll say it here. I talked extensively to a former OSU wrestler who is now a coach. We spoke about penn state and he said their wrestlers are always physically ready for the tournament, because if the way they train. He said they do short, intense, fun practices and then do a ton of cardio. I think old school methods are only really a fit when you have elite, physically gifted, talent.

I am not making a judgement - I’m just repeating what I was told.

 

[tom_v31]

I think we do overtrain. I’ve said this to others and I’ll say it here. I talked extensively to a former OSU wrestler who is now a coach. We spoke about penn state and he said their wrestlers are always physically ready for the tournament, because if the way they train. He said they do short, intense, fun practices and then do a ton of cardio. I think old school methods are only really a fit when you have elite, physically gifted, talent.

I am not making a judgement - I’m just repeating what I was told.

Flow videoed an OSU practice a few years ago. The wrestlers went live. I thought they were trying to kill each other. It had to be at least 8ish years ago. I thought, holy crap, they hate each other. I wonder if things have changed.

 

[Wrassler17]

I think there's probably something to the Penn St comment. I remember Bo Jordan saying one reason he chose tOSU over PSU was because the PSU practices were not as "serious". Something like that. Jordan went on to have numerous injuries in his career.

Suriano is another one. He's known as a maniacal workout guy. I remember Sanderson saying they were trying to convince him to scale back his training a little and he was resisting it.

Also read something about PSU having a "recovery day" during the practice week.

 

[Cowguy]

I think there's probably something to the Penn St comment. I remember Bo Jordan saying one reason he chose tOSU over PSU was because the PSU practices were not as "serious". Something like that. Jordan went on to have numerous injuries in his career.

Suriano is another one. He's known as a maniacal workout guy. I remember Sanderson saying they were trying to convince him to scale back his training a little and he was resisting it.

Also read something about PSU having a "recovery day" during the practice week.

Yeah there are guys like Fix and Soriano that fall into that physically gifted and dominant category I mentioned.

Seriously though ... the sport has evolved in other ways. There was a time when weight training was just not done. Coaches need to think about it. Toughness is obviously great. Winning championships is better.

It’s also possible that some things are just flukes, but the trends lead me to believe most wrestling programs must look at their process.

 

[Wrassler17]

Yeah there are guys like Fix and Soriano that fall into that physically gifted and dominant category I mentioned.

Seriously though ... the sport has evolved in other ways. There was a time when weight training was just not done. Coaches need to think about it. Toughness is obviously great. Winning championships is better.

It’s also possible that some things are just flukes, but the trends lead me to believe most wrestling programs must look at their process.

Yeah, I agree, it might be something the coaches need to consider.

Speaking of the sport evolving, have you guys seen this functional patterns stuff? Kyle Dake has been doing it for years. He said he got injured a lot after college so he was looking for a better way to train. There are a bunch of videos on YouTube about it, but here's a short one. Would like to know what Gary C thinks.

 

[tom_v31]

Yeah, I agree, it might be something the coaches need to consider.

Speaking of the sport evolving, have you guys seen this functional patterns stuff? Kyle Dake has been doing it for years. He said he got injured a lot after college so he was looking for a better way to train. There are a bunch of videos on YouTube about it, but here's a short one. Would like to know what Gary C thinks.

View embedded media

If you are not evolving and innovating, you will get left behind

 

[alex1fly]

If you are not evolving and innovating, you will get left behind

That's kind of my worry. Interesting commentary on PSU. When they were crushing the national tournament with Nolf/Nickal/Retherford/Hall, a common theme in their post-match interviews was "go out there and have fun". They do a lot of "play wrestling" in the room, and it shows on the mat when they pull out moves you've never seen before. Not that OSU needs to do what PSU is doing, but it does seem a little like our style is more rigid. Like there's one way to do mold champions. Gfeller is a good example of this - his year starting at 141 he pulled out all kinds of unorthodox moves, and found good results.

 

[tom_v31]

I love play wrestling. It allows innovation and multimove combos without beating up the wrestlers. It also allows wrestlers to feel how to change moves in mid execution.

 

[OSUMatFan]

I know that my trainer has me focus a great deal on smaller muscles that stop me from cheating when I use the larger muscle groups. I do think that you can do some exercises that will reduce the risk of getting injured. I am an old man so this might not apply to a competitive athlete, but building strength in some muscles might stop damages that occur in joints or other muscle groups is pretty standard among physical therapists.

 

[Wrassler17]

The PSU stuff is contrived IMO. All coaches want their wrestlers to wrestle relaxed and be offensive. The difference is I think Sanderson tells his guys to say it on camera - "have fun and score points". He's trying to create a brand. David Taylor says it in nearly every interview. Taylor didn't look like he was having fun after the J'den Cox series in 2016. Last week, Nolf, Nickal & Joseph all got beat. Didn't look like they were having much fun to me either.

If you are looking for a reason why PSU might be able to have shorter practices rather than long grueling ones, is this a possibility? PSU seems to target recruits with good gas tanks IMO. Could that allow them to focus less on conditioning (long live goes) than other teams? Maybe it's something Sanderson learned after Andrew Alton, but almost all his guys seem to have great gas tanks - Megaludis, Retherford, Nolf, Nick Lee, Brooks, etc. And that was true when they were in HS also. It's not just the super offensive guys either - Gulibon, Conway and McCutheon didn't attack a lot but they had excellent conditioning. The only guy that seems to have a shaky tank right now is Beard. And didn't he have a reputation for having a good tank in HS? Thought I heard that.

 

[tom_v31]

It maybe be a bit contrived. I heard Sanderson partnered with a Psychologist faculty member at PSU who has a unique approach to competition. It maybe campfire stories though.