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April 30th Marks the End of the Vietnam War—and the Beginning of Its Myths

Whhhaaaat? You hadn’t heard of Ponca City? Oklahoma’s most famous town of all?
Wasn't Geronimo the first town in Oklahoma where an auto was manufactured? OKC is the second capitol of Oklahoma. Arkansas Colored Post Office closed in 1912. Not even a ghost town remains today. Langston, founded by blacks for blacks, flourishes to this day. The natives of Miami can't pronounce it. Fort Sill is the heart of the Comancheria. The Kiowa and Apache live there along with the 600 member Fort Sill Apache Nation.

The Stockbridge-Munsee Band of the Mohicans flourish to this day in Wisconsin. Some Pamunkey remain today in Kentucky.
 
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My parents and brother live & work in Miama. Fitty lives 20 minutes South
Miami has more Casinos & dispensaries per capita than any other OK town. My how times have changed
Five or more tribes are headquartered there
 
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My parents and brother live & work in Miama. Fitty lives 20 minutes South
Miami has more Casinos & dispensaries per capita than any other OK town. My how times have changed
Five or more tribes are headquartered there
There are no Indian Reservations in Oklahoma. Is it 37 or 39 Indian Nations headquartered in Oklahoma? I grew up mostly with the uncivilized Comanches at Fort Sill, the heart of the Comancheria. It was the Wichita Wildlife Refuge where I made my 1/3 mile walk among the tatanka (buffalo) at age 17.
 
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The war in Vietnam was one of the greatest blunders ever committed by our country. It was completely unnecessary and avoidable. So many smart people just flat out got it wrong in Vietnam, including a number of Presidents. So many people died (on both sides) that didn't have to die, so many injuried and are still dealing with the effects of this strategic blunder. Just a complete waste of life and resources.

And the way so many soldiers were treated after coming home was disgusting. The soldiers were not to blame for simply doing their job, being placed into a horrible situation.
Yep. And the biggest offenders were the democrat politicians and the leftist counterculture.
 
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I am not sure about your questions SB, perhaps brother Scottsdale knows that info and will weigh in
 
I am not sure about your questions SB, perhaps brother Scottsdale knows that info and will weigh in
There are 39 tribes that call Oklahoma their home. Only 5 are native to Oklahoma. The Osage, Kiowa, Caddo, Comanche & Witchita. I was raised on the Osage & Washington County line. Osage tribal seat being Pawhuska and Delaware tribal seat being Bartlesville.
 
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Wasn't Geronimo the first town in Oklahoma where an auto was manufactured? OKC is the second capitol of Oklahoma. Arkansas Colored Post Office closed in 1912. Not even a ghost town remains today. Langston, founded by blacks for blacks, flourishes to this day. The natives of Miami can't pronounce it. Fort Sill is the heart of the Comancheria. The Kiowa and Apache live there along with the 600 member Fort Sill Apache Nation.

The Stockbridge-Munsee Band of the Mohicans flourish to this day in Wisconsin. Some Pamunkey remain today in Kentucky.
Guthrie was the capital of Oklahoma Territory and after statehood was the initial capital of the state. This was mostly due to the railroad station/stop that saw a vast majority of the participants in the Land Rush. For the most part, Indian Territory (Eastern Oklahoma) had no designated capital. OKC became the 2nd capital of the State of Oklahoma.

Segregated townships in Oklahoma were not uncommon. There were many smaller towns when I was in high school. Taft & New Lima were all black. They would kick our ass in baseball and basketball.
 
My mom's tribal heritage is Delaware. They migrated into SW Missouri and founded the town of Sarcoxie. The civil war almost wiped them out completely. Both the north and the south wreaked havoc on the Delaware. Near starvation they migrated into Indian Territory and were adopted by the Cherokee in NE Oklahoma. The roles of 1907 clearly call them Adopted Delaware and gave them both Delaware & Cherokee role numbers. I have both. I have tribal member cards and voters registration for tribal affairs. My mom was 1/4 and I am 1/8 (father is pale face). My mom's maiden name was Sarcoxie. She was the granddaughter of Cpt Big John Sarcoxie, Tribal Chief and son of founder of Sarcoxie.
 
My ancestors in Morgan County, Alabama claimed "Black Dutch." We ain't Indians. The gov didn't buy in and assigned them to Haskell County, Oklahoma, land of the Choctaw. This came around 1838, after President Jackson signed the "Indian Removal Act" of 1830. I am 1/8 Cherokee. My DNA ethnicity test documents come from Genelex Labs in Seattle in 2008.
 
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There are 39 tribes that call Oklahoma their home. Only 5 are native to Oklahoma. The Osage, Kiowa, Caddo, Comanche & Witchita. I was raised on the Osage & Washington County line. Osage tribal seat being Pawhuska and Delaware tribal seat being Bartlesville.
Some historians believe the Comanche broke off from the Blackfeet long ago. The Blackfeet once upon a time were not to be trifled with. The Kiowa may have recognized the fury of the Comanche (horse people) and quickly allied with them?
 
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Bu
My ancestors in Morgan County, Alabama claimed "Black Dutch." We ain't Indians. The gov didn't buy in and assigned them to Haskell County, Oklahoma, land of the Choctaw. This came around 1838, after President Jackson signed the "Indian Removal Act" of 1830. I am 1/8 Cherokee. My DNA ethnicity test documents come from Genelex Labs in Seattle in 2008.
But I don't believe a DNA test can verify tribal distinction can it? It can only determine the percentage based on blood traceability. Black Dutch would be a hard sell. The Black Dutch of upstate New York are often a tad darker and often have blue eyes. I think the term Black Dutch comes from when Spain occupied the Netherlands in the 15th century. There was also a tribe of Israel that co-mingled with Africans that settled in the southern states of the US that were referred to as Black Dutch.

Do you have a BIA card for your Cherokee blood? Any heritage documentation? The Cherokee have many different programs to benefit tribal members but I think 1/8th is the minimum cut-off. I used the Indian Hospital in Claremore for all my minor medical needs growing up. I started school in Tahlequah with many full bloods. Cherokee Capital.
 
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I was taught all about the “civilized tribes” through 7th or 8th grades and had full blood friends and neighbors from k-9. Then the Fed stepped in to the Tulsa school system (and many others) and everyone was scattered
 
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Bu

But I don't believe a DNA test can verify tribal distinction can it? It can only determine the percentage based on blood traceability. Black Dutch would be a hard sell. The Black Dutch of upstate New York are often a tad darker and often have blue eyes. I think the term Black Dutch comes from when Spain occupied the Netherlands in the 15th century. There was also a tribe of Israel that co-mingled with Africans that settled in the southern states of the US that were referred to as Black Dutch.

Do you have a BIA card for your Cherokee blood? Any heritage documentation? The Cherokee have many different programs to benefit tribal members but I think 1/8th is the minimum cut-off. I used the Indian Hospital in Claremore for all my minor medical needs growing up. I started school in Tahlequah with many full bloods. Cherokee Capital.
DNA testing can identify Cherokee only. I am 12% Indigenous American. I am 9% East Asian. All American Indians have East Asian DNA, with Cherokee having most as they are believed to be last to walk across the Bering Strait to North America 13,000 years ago. A 12% Comanche or Flathead would have much less than 9% East Asian DNA. Genelex Labs in Seattle will provide for me at no cost, a document that says they are 99.9999 certain I am 1/8 Cherokee. The Cherokee Nation accepts no lab documents for anyone proving ethnicity.

"Black Dutch" was a generic term many southeastern Indians used in an attempt to avoid a move to Oklahoma. I've read about US mixes visiting Europe seeking information on Black Dutch, Black German and Black Irish. Locals have no idea what Americans are talking about.

Cherokee law says if the chain is broken by denial, no Cherokee has any claim to Cherokee residence. I know card-carrying Choctaw who are of 1/512 blood. I know card-carrying Lumbee Indians of North Carolina who can be Indigenous of any Nation and Sub-Saharan African-Caucasian. I very likely could gain admission to the Lumbee Nation. I'm certain Elvis Presley could have.
 
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DNA testing can identify Cherokee only. I am 12% Indigenous American. I am 9% East Asian. All American Indians have East Asian DNA, with Cherokee having most as they are believed to be last to walk across the Bering Strait to North America 13,000 years ago. A 12% Comanche or Flathead would have much less than 9% East Asian DNA. Genelex Labs in Seattle will provide for me at no cost, a document that says they are 99.9999 certain I am 1/8 Cherokee. The Cherokee Nation accepts no lab documents for anyone proving ethnicity.

"Black Dutch" was a generic term many southeastern Indians used in an attempt to avoid a move to Oklahoma. I've read about US mixes visiting Europe seeking information on Black Dutch, Black German and Black Irish. Locals have no idea what Americans are talking about.

Cherokee law says if the chain is broken by denial, no Cherokee has any claim to Cherokee residence. I know card-carrying Choctaw who are of 1/512 blood. I know card-carrying Lumbee Indians of North Carolina who can be Indigenous of any Nation and Sub-Saharan African-Caucasian. I very likely could gain admission to the Lumbee Nation. I'm certain Elvis Presley could have.
SBI, I believe you have been misinformed. DNA testing cannot identify tribes. It can identify blood groups that may lead to the assumption that one has tribal affiliation territorially. The Cherokee actually filed an injunction versus the many DNA testing companies to stop naming Cherokee in favor of Indigenous American. The Cherokee tribal affiliation claims were so common among Americans in the last 100 years that it became an anthropological phenomenon. In fact, the Cherokee tribe showed that once indigenous blood has been diluted to less than 1/64th it can no longer be confirmed to actually be native American. The other affiliations such as your Black Dutch have the same percentage of chance being falsely identified as indigenous American. The Cherokee lawyers provided clear evidence that different DNA testing can provide completely different results.

Having Native American ancestors or Indigenous American DNA does not make someone a Native American tribal citizen​

There are differences between a person’s genetic, political, and cultural identities. Native American tribal members are citizens of their nations. This is a political and cultural identification rather than a genetic identification, similar to being a citizen of any other country. In the United States, there are more than 570 federally recognized tribal nations and over 60 state-recognized tribes. There are also some regionally-recognized tribal communities.

Individual tribal nations determine the criteria for tribal citizenship.

To determine tribal citizenship, tribal nations determine the legitimacy and strength of someone’s family connections. For many tribal nations, this means tracing a person’s lineage back to someone on tribal citizenship rolls from the late 19th to early 20th centuries (like the Dawes Rolls). Sometimes a “percent of blood,” called blood quantum, is also used.

Blood quantum is not how tribal nations have historically determined who is a tribal member. Rather, blood quantum was created and later used by the United States government to dispossess Native American people of their lands and civil liberties. It was not until the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934 that the United States began requiring tribal nations to use blood quantum to determine tribal citizenship.

It’s also important to recognize that some people have strong cultural or family connections to a tribe without being a tribal citizen. There are many reasons for this, including issues of parental consent and paper genocide. People in this position may be considered Native American because they have strong cultural and family connections.


Native American ancestors​

Claiming to be Native American because of a distant or unverifiable Native American ancestor contradicts a tribal nation’s right to sovereignty. In fact, so many people falsely claim to have a Cherokee great-grandmother that it’s been deemed an anthropological phenomenon.

This doesn’t mean that the presence of Native American ancestors is not an important feature of someone’s family history. However, there’s a crucial difference between the claims “I have Native American lineage” and “I am Native American.”

Indigenous American DNA​

Although the criteria may differ between nations, no tribal nation considers Indigenous American DNA to be a legitimate claim to citizenship. In part, this stems from traditional beliefs that kinship networks (family connections)—not ethnicity or DNA—determine who is Native American.

While Indigenous American DNA cannot be used to determine tribal citizenship, it can be vital in assisting Native American people who were separated from their tribal communities through forced adoption or the residential school system. The Association for American Indian Affairs reports that as many as one-third of all Native American children were separated from their tribal communities between 1941 and 1967. The Indian Child Welfare Act of 1978 attempted to end the forced adoption of Native American children, but they were still separated from their tribal communities even after it was signed into law. Today, Native American children still make up a disproportionate part of the U.S. adoption and foster care system. DNA could help Native Americans affected by adoption or foster care re-establish their family connections. For reasons that include tribal sovereignty, Ancestry® does not break down DNA results by tribe, but we do provide an approximate geographical region (Indigenous Americas).


Results are not broken down by tribe​

While our reference panel includes a large number of Native Americans, many people carry DNA from multiple Native American tribes as well as non-Indigenous DNA. This can make it difficult to accurately distinguish between different Native American tribes. Also, many Native Americans have some European ancestors. Ancestry selects only the parts of a person’s genome that we identify as being Native American, so we essentially "stitch together" small sections of Indigenous DNA to reconstruct bigger genomes.

Additionally, some Native American communities have limited participation in genetics research. This is due, in large part, to centuries of extractive and exploitative research practices that have rightfully led to distrust among tribal communities. To provide a tribal level of identification, Ancestry would need much more genetic information from these communities. But for reasons relating to tribal sovereignty, it also might not be ideal to break ethnicity down by tribe.

Why the Indigenous Americas region may not appear in your ethnicity estimate​

It’s possible to have Native American ancestors, but not have the Indigenous Americas region in your ethnicity estimate. This is because there’s a difference between lineage and DNA.

A child receives 50% of each parent’s DNA, but they typically do not receive 50% of each parent’s ethnicity. This is due to the randomness of genetic inheritance. For example, a parent with half Nigerian and half Indigenous American DNA may pass down more Nigerian DNA to their child (or vice versa). Over generations, the randomness of genetic inheritance results in more DNA being passed down from some ethnicities and others being lost entirely.

To further illustrate, let’s say you have a Native American great-grandmother who has 25% Indigenous American DNA. Although about 12.5% of your DNA comes from your great-grandmother, you might not have inherited her Indigenous DNA. Alternatively, you may have inherited such a small amount that it doesn’t appear in a DNA test.

The AncestryDNA test surveys over 700,000 locations in your DNA, but there is still a chance that we missed evidence of Indigenous American DNA. This is because you may have inherited genetic markers that AncestryDNA does not use to identify Indigenous American ethnicity. Additionally, some Native American communities are underrepresented in genetics research, largely due to distrust in tribal communities because of centuries of extractive and exploitative research practices.

The presence of Indigenous DNA does not make someone more or less Native American. Tribal citizenship is determined by tribal nations, not by DNA.
 
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That was posted by the Cherokee to the tribal newsletter several months ago. It has since been posted online by a few of the DNA testing companies. I have never taken a DNA test but I have an old army buddy that is 100% Oglala Sioux that has a DNA test from Ancestry.com that says he is 25% Indigenous American.

Tribal membership for the Cherokee is pretty straight forward. If one can trace and prove their family bloodline through the Dawes Roll then it is easy. If not, don't bother. The tribal admin in Tahlequah can confirm or deny Cherokee bloodline pretty quick. I was fortunate. I have photocopies of the BIA questionnaire when interviewing my Delaware family at Silver Lake, Oklahoma in 1906/07. There is a tribal family tree at the Bartlesville Public Library that contains all 3 families, turkey, wolf & turtle. My name was added when I was born as was my son and daughter. Although all names are maintained the family trees stop at 1/16th blood.
 
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That was posted by the Cherokee to the tribal newsletter several months ago. It has since been posted online by a few of the DNA testing companies. I have never taken a DNA test but I have an old army buddy that is 100% Oglala Sioux that has a DNA test from Ancestry.com that says he is 25% Indigenous American.

Tribal membership for the Cherokee is pretty straight forward. If one can trace and prove their family bloodline through the Dawes Roll then it is easy. If not, don't bother. The tribal admin in Tahlequah can confirm or deny Cherokee bloodline pretty quick. I was fortunate. I have photocopies of the BIA questionnaire when interviewing my Delaware family at Silver Lake, Oklahoma in 1906/07. There is a tribal family tree at the Bartlesville Public Library that contains all 3 families, turkey, wolf & turtle. My name was added when I was born as was my son and daughter. Although all names are maintained the family trees stop at 1/16th blood.
Ancestry.com is a compete waste of money. They use their own data base. American Indians participate very little in DNA testing. At Ancestry.com, I'm a fraction Indigenous American I am at Genelex Labs. I paid $108 at Ancestry in 2018, $600 at Genelex in 2008. Genelex is the Oprah Winfrey lab. I've had 4 updates from Ancestry since tested. I've grown blacker since tested as their data base grows.

I have no interest whatsoever joining any nation. I am 12% Indigenous American, 9% East Asian, 25% Sub-Saharan African and 54% European Caucasian according to Genelex. I'm part of all 4 of the world's family groups. The closeness of East Asian and Indigenous strongly indicates Cherokee. My father's tall, lean, olive skin, high cheek bones and nose strongly hinted at Comanche. His sister and my auntie's appearance suggested African American. Oldest Uncle appearance was Cherokee.
 
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Ancestry.com is a compete waste of money. They use their own data base. American Indians participate very little in DNA testing. At Ancestry.com, I'm a fraction Indigenous American I am at Genelex Labs. I paid $108 at Ancestry in 2018, $600 at Genelex in 2008. Genelex is the Oprah Winfrey lab. I've had 4 updates from Ancestry since tested. I've grown blacker since tested as their data base grows.

I have no interest whatsoever joining any nation. I am 12% Indigenous American, 9% East Asian, 25% Sub-Saharan African and 54% European Caucasian according to Genelex. I'm part of all 4 of the world's family groups. The closeness of East Asian and Indigenous strongly indicates Cherokee. My father's tall, lean, olive skin, high cheek bones and nose strongly hinted at Comanche. His sister and my auntie's appearance suggested African American. Oldest Uncle appearance was Cherokee.
You are correct is your statement concerning tribal participation in genetics testing. Tribes (Cherokee) do not endorse genetic testing because they do not accept the results as being a direct proof to being Cherokee. Cherokee are descended from the Iroquoian/Algonquin tribes of eastern US and Canada. The Delaware were quickly taken in by the Cherokee because they are related. The Lenape (Delaware) also consist of the Stockbridge-Muncee and Muncee-Delaware are genetically almost identical with the Cherokee.

From the Bureau of Indian Affairs: "A DNA test may be able to tell you whether or not you're Indian, but it will not be able to tell you what tribe or nation your family comes from, and DNA testing is not accepted by any tribe or nation as proof of Indian ancestry."

If you have been verified at 12% Indigenous American then are as much as I am (12.5%) at 1/8. The difference may be that yours comes from multiple sources and mine is directly from my mom. I have never been interested in genetic testing because my paternal side is very well documented and has been traced to eastern Oklahoma in the 1750s when the area was considered French. Not much genetics can tell me that I don't already know.
 
You are correct is your statement concerning tribal participation in genetics testing. Tribes (Cherokee) do not endorse genetic testing because they do not accept the results as being a direct proof to being Cherokee. Cherokee are descended from the Iroquoian/Algonquin tribes of eastern US and Canada. The Delaware were quickly taken in by the Cherokee because they are related. The Lenape (Delaware) also consist of the Stockbridge-Muncee and Muncee-Delaware are genetically almost identical with the Cherokee.

From the Bureau of Indian Affairs: "A DNA test may be able to tell you whether or not you're Indian, but it will not be able to tell you what tribe or nation your family comes from, and DNA testing is not accepted by any tribe or nation as proof of Indian ancestry."

If you have been verified at 12% Indigenous American then are as much as I am (12.5%) at 1/8. The difference may be that yours comes from multiple sources and mine is directly from my mom. I have never been interested in genetic testing because my paternal side is very well documented and has been traced to eastern Oklahoma in the 1750s when the area was considered French. Not much genetics can tell me that I don't already know.
I can trace my maternal side way, way back to Wales, Scotland, Ireland and England. My paternal side back only about 3 generations because so much lying to government officials. A g-g-great aunt is listed as Choctaw on her Dawes Freedmen Rolls Card. She is no part Choctaw. Government assigned some ancestors to Haskell County (Choctaw), OK because they claimed black Dutch in hopes of remaining in Alabama. My auntie at least admitted to being an Indian.
 
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