Watch for Pluto

[Orange Jennyslipper]

It'll be all over the news today and probably forgotten tomorrow. Awesome science involved.

At 35,000 mph, the fastest spacecraft ever. A million miles a day for nine years. At the speed of light, it takes four and a half hours for radio transmissions from the spacecraft to reach home. After it passes through the moon system, it will take 16 months to send all the data from the flyby back to earth.

The calculus involved in getting from here to there is mind-blowing. After flying through 3 BILLION miles through space, they're going to pass through a 60 mile by 80 mile box near Pluto and inside the orbits of a couple of its moons.

When I was in junior high in the 60's, I read a book about Clyde Tombaugh who discovered Pluto in 1930 and how he had done it. He died in 1997. A portion of his ashes were placed aboard the New Horizon spacecraft before launch in 2006 with a plaque about his discovery. I thought that was ultra cool.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

While the earth circled the sun more than nine times while the spacecraft was travelling, Pluto only moved through a fraction of its 248-year orbit. I had forgotten ever knowing it took that long for one orbit.

 

[Been Jammin]

I'm too lazy to look it up. Maybe you know. What was the basis for deciding that Pluto is not a planet (size?) and is there a chance that the status will change after all of these pics are analyzed?

 

[Chillwell]

I'm too lazy to look it up. Maybe you know. What was the basis for deciding that Pluto is not a planet (size?) and is there a chance that the status will change after all of these pics are analyzed?

I have no idea why those f'ers changed it, but I will forever hate Neil Degrasse Tyson because of it. I hope he and all those of his ilk die a death of a thousand pokes of an unfurled paperclip.

Pluto "dwarf" Planet = Ruined an important part of my Childhood: "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas"....I hate those guys!

 

[100TonsofOrangeFury]

I have no idea why those f'ers changed it, but I will forever hate Neil Degrasse Tyson because of it. I hope he and all those of his ilk die a death of a those pokes of an unfurled paperclip.

Pluto "dwarf" Planet = Ruined an important part of my Childhood: "My Very Educated Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas"....I hate those guys!

I thought they reversed the decision and re-granted it planet status? Because that's important.

 

[GoPokes43]

Some of the new measurements from New Horizons show Pluto to be larger than it was previously thought to be.

The criteria for being a planet (by the small number of astronomers who voted on the criteria in 2006) is that it is round and able to clear its orbit of smaller objects. Apparently Pluto's orbit is controlled by Neptune's and thus Pluto is not considered as clearing its orbit. Lot's of controversy though as the various definitions for defining a planet rely on some arbitrary criteria. For instance, Pluto has 5 moons - how can that not be a planet?

EDIT: And about that vote in 2006 (http://time.com/3429938/pluto-planet-vote/):
The organization may seem to count even less when you consider something Gingerich revealed during his arguments. He was there for the 2006 IAU vote, which came when most of the attendees had already gone home. Just 424 of the organization’s nearly 10,000 members were present, and when the organizers offered the gathering the chance to reconsider Pluto’s demotion, Gingerich said, “they voted not to vote again because they wanted to go to lunch, so that was the end of it.”

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Ha, yeah, size was the main concern. It's only about 2/3 the size of our moon with only 1/6 the mass. It's largest moon exerts such gravitational force on it that it wobbles in its orbit. That wobble is not considered very planet-like. Another of its moons is the size of Texas, which is pretty small for a heavenly body. I am anxious to see what it looks like. It may look more like an asteroid than a moon.

Also, because of it's location in the Kuiper Belt, some felt Pluto was more like a comet than a planet. If you nudged it out of orbit and made it take an elliptical path near the sun, it would flare an unbelievable tail, just like a comet, as ice crystals (mostly) were pealed off the surface. The orbit of Pluto brings it inside the orbit of Neptune for some length of time which is another thing that adds to its comet-like features.

On the other hand, we will learn so much more about Pluto in the next year and a half as data comes back that it's possible the debate will start over and perhaps Chill will not have practiced his mnemonics in vain.

EDIT: GoPokes posted while I was writing this. My response was to BJ and Chillwell.

 

[GoPokes43]

Ha, yeah, size was the main concern. It's only about 2/3 the size of our moon with only 1/6 the mass. It's largest moon exerts such gravitational force on it that it wobbles in its orbit. That wobble is not considered very planet-like. Another of its moons is the size of Texas, which is pretty small for a heavenly body. I am anxious to see what it looks like. It may look more like an asteroid than a moon.

Also, because of it's location in the Kuiper Belt, some felt Pluto was more like a comet than a planet. If you nudged it out of orbit and made it take an elliptical path near the sun, it would flare an unbelievable tail, just like a comet, as ice crystals (mostly) were pealed off the surface. The orbit of Pluto brings it inside the orbit of Neptune for some length of time which is another thing that adds to its comet-like features.

On the other hand, we will learn so much more about Pluto in the next year and a half as data comes back that it's possible the debate will start over and perhaps Chill will not have practiced his mnemonics in vain.

EDIT: GoPokes posted while I was writing this. My response was to BJ and Chillwell.

Of note, Earth wobbles in its orbit due to the moon and would flare up a nice tail if nudged from its orbit toward the sun.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Another planned navigational feat which melted my mind is that after the craft has passed Pluto, it will take a picture of the planet as it passes across the face of the Sun in the background, so they can examine the sunlight as it passes through Pluto's atmosphere. That data will be used to tell exactly what the atmosphere is made of, if there is one.

What's crazy is that from 3 billion miles away, the Sun is just another tiny dot in the sky among the other trillion or so tiny dots in the sky. They have to line up perfectly for the atmosphere to show up (to their instruments) as a halo all the way around Pluto.

 

[JonnyVito]

We all know Pluto would be bigger if it hadn't collided with Earth billions of years ago thus giving Earth water and creating the moon.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Of note, Earth wobbles in its orbit due to the moon and would flare up a nice tail if nudged from its orbit toward the sun.

Yeah, but there'd be Crispy Critters in the Earth's tail.

 

[GoPokes43]

Another planned navigational feat which melted my mind is that after the craft has passed Pluto, it will take a picture of the planet as it passes across the face of the Sun in the background, so they can examine the sunlight as it passes through Pluto's atmosphere. That data will be used to tell exactly what the atmosphere is made of, if there is one.

What's crazy is that from 3 billion miles away, the Sun is just another tiny dot in the sky among the other trillion or so tiny dots in the sky. They have to line up perfectly for the atmosphere to show up (to their instruments) as a halo all the way around Pluto.

It is known to have an atmosphere with methane in it. In fact, the relative thickness of Pluto's atmosphere in relation to its size is vastly larger than Earth's atmosphere. And, it is thought it will be confirmed to be thicker than the Earth's atmosphere in absolute terms and may share an atmosphere with Charon. Granted, it isn't an atmosphere that we could breath or that would resemble ours, but still seems very interesting.

I've been watching the internet for Pluto stuff off and on since about April. Pretty cool stuff. Reminds me of when I was a kid with Voyager 1 and 2 sending back images of Saturn and Jupiter.

 

[Rulz]

Maybe we can colonize it lol.

I bet that is one cold bastard. Yeah, I grew up thinking of 9 planets too, but that's the beauty of space exploration...we get to find out things that are completely new unlike our earth that we have just about explored every inch of...except for the greatest depths of the oceans. But yeah, it was granted planet status again. It would be interesting if it and Neptune ever collided...maybe their orbits would intersect at some point? Now that would be....cool....puff, puff, give...

 

[JonnyVito]

I just can't wait till I have kids and can say back in my day Pluto was a planet. This is pretty cool stuff though on the real and like Aggies said the math behind it must be insane. I would have never thought as a young kid sitting in grade school that Pluto was pinkish. I hope they get some shots of the moons around Pluto and that sun shot sounds really cool.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

TV coverage tonight at 8 pm on National Geographic, 276 on DTV. NASA TV on 352 will also have coverage.

There will also be some good space programming on both channels before and after the Pluto mission. The coverage will be to cover (hopefully) the re-establishment of radio contact after the spacecraft cuts transmissions while it is busy today as it passes close to Pluto and the moons. There are a lot of tests and readings to take during the fly-by, especially when you're moving past everything at better than 30,000 mph.

I don't think the NatGeo coverage will be live. It may be a canned show about the mission, which will be good. The radio contact comes during the 7 pm hour, central time, I think.

 

[GoPokes43]

TV coverage tonight at 8 pm on National Geographic, 276 on DTV. NASA TV on 352 will also have coverage.

There will also be some good space programming on both channels before and after the Pluto mission. The coverage will be to cover (hopefully) the re-establishment of radio contact after the spacecraft cuts transmissions while it is busy today as it passes close to Pluto and the moons. There are a lot of tests and readings to take during the fly-by, especially when you're moving past everything at better than 30,000 mph.

I don't think the NatGeo coverage will be live. It may be a canned show about the mission, which will be good. The radio contact comes during the 7 pm hour, central time, I think.

Yes, just before 8pm CDT. Here's NASA's site for New Horizons: http://pluto.jhuapl.edu/ It has a timeline for all of the activities the probe is doing (minute-by-minute even).

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Great! Thanks for posting that. I'm reading in more than one place that Pluto has not been given its planet label back. Is that what you have? I've seen it labelled dwarf-planet by some.

There is a body beyond Pluto that is more massive and has a moon. Also several a little smaller than Pluto and they have moons as well. I didn't know that until today.

 

[hollywood]

And there may be more celestial bodies in orbit, in the "Oort Cloud" that may be as large or larger than Pluto.

The think I read today that absolutely blew me away (I was certain the author was mistaken and I double checked): The Mariner II spacecraft that was sent to explore Venus (and send back radiometer and temperature readings) made its successful pass by Venus in 1962!

The fact that was just five short years after Sputnik and just 4 yrs after the first successful American satellite (Explorer I) was placed in orbit, blows me away. What a huge advancement, from going to barely being able to put a satellite in Earth's orbit to sending a payload past another planet within the system with the ability take readings and send them back in such a short amount of time is just incredible.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

There is a body beyond Pluto that is more massive and has a moon. Also several a little smaller than Pluto and they have moons as well. I didn't know that until today.

I just learned this within the last six months. I think it was just discovered in the last 20 years. What I find amazing is that apparently the Sumerians had drawings of our solar system and had it revolving around the sun and had both Pluto and the planet beyond Pluto. How in the hell? I know, I know. "Ancient Aliens man."

 

[JonnyVito]

Thor, I think with out lights some of the civilizations way back in the day had a great understanding of the stars and planets. Now with that said how could they see Pluto, but like you said they have stuff showing the planets. I think at one time before the library of Alexandria burned the human race had a far better understanding of the natural world. Such a shame all those scrolls and books were lost. No telling what was lost or where the human race would be today if they didn't lose all that knowledge.

 

[nathajw]

Yeah, I grew up thinking of 9 planets too

My very educated mother just served us nine pizzas.

It's science.

 

[hollywood]

The fire at the Library at Alexandria, was perhaps one of the greatest tragedies in the entire history of the human race. According to some records that survived, there were volumes of works by Archimedes that were known to exist at the time and no records of them after the fire.

No telling how many other inventions, discoveries and scientific knowledge was lost forever. From what I've read, I think we could easily be 300 to 600 years more advanced technologically at this point in time, but for the loss of that knowledge.

 

[GoPokes43]

The fire at the Library at Alexandria, was perhaps one of the greatest tragedies in the entire history of the human race. According to some records that survived, there were volumes of works by Archimedes that were known to exist at the time and no records of them after the fire.

No telling how many other inventions, discoveries and scientific knowledge was lost forever. From what I've read, I think we could easily be 300 to 600 years more advanced technologically at this point in time, but for the loss of that knowledge.

I thought it had been determined that it wasn't as significant as historians used to believe. I.e., there was no great library, but there were multiple libraries over the years and there were multiple assaults on the city, some of which may have involved fires of libraries and/or warehouses storing books and records. In any case, for the most part, items taken into the library(ies) were copied so that it did not house the only versions of those books and records.

Also, whatever technical achievements were documented that would have been useful would have most likely been embodied in physical inventions and the writers, philosophers and scientists of the time would have had knowledge of the relevant items as well, within a range of specific to general knowledge. Since people weren't concurrently scrubbed from the earth, not sure why there would have been more than a short time (perhaps a decade to be generous) impact on technological advancements.

 

[Cowguy]

It'll be all over the news today and probably forgotten tomorrow. Awesome science involved.

At 35,000 mph, the fastest spacecraft ever. A million miles a day for nine years. At the speed of light, it takes four and a half hours for radio transmissions from the spacecraft to reach home. After it passes through the moon system, it will take 16 months to send all the data from the flyby back to earth.

The calculus involved in getting from here to there is mind-blowing. After flying through 3 BILLION miles through space, they're going to pass through a 60 mile by 80 mile box near Pluto and inside the orbits of a couple of its moons.

When I was in junior high in the 60's, I read a book about Clyde Tombaugh who discovered Pluto in 1930 and how he had done it. He died in 1997. A portion of his ashes were placed aboard the New Horizon spacecraft before launch in 2006 with a plaque about his discovery. I thought that was ultra cool.

Watch Uranus

 

[ThorOdinson13]

When the oldest civilization in history knew more than we did just 20 years ago about the number of planets in our solar system something has been either missed or lost. Unless of course it was just a damned lucky guess.

 

[GoPokes43]

When the oldest civilization in history knew more than we did just 20 years ago about the number of planets in our solar system something has been either missed or lost. Unless of course it was just a damned lucky guess.

Why do you think that civilization knew more?

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Watch Uranus

I would have had two desks for you in my class. One that butted up to the front of my desk so I could reach you with a yardstick and the one out in the hall where the principal came by and picked up lost souls.

 

[ThorOdinson13]

Why do you think that civilization knew more?

There are carvings of our solar system by them that depict the number and maybe even alignment. I can't remember for sure.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Mariner II's success just four years after Explorer was remarkable, but Mariner II was only seven years before men walking on the moon. I am glad I was able to witness the 60's space program. Most of our exciting adventures since have come in earth orbit.

So many of the great advances we have seen in other areas like medicine, commercial flight, communications and so on have been derived from the space program. Many military advances also got their starts as space research.

Our ace-in-hole was Werner von Braun, whom we spirited out of Germany after the war. Our space program started out on second base.

The Sumerians had a lot on the ball in other areas, too, but I'm skeptical of their astronomy knowledge. Ten planets? OK, but where do you draw the line? If you accept Pluto and Eris, don't you have to accept Makemake and Sedna and Orcas and on down the list?

You can't see anything in our solar system past Saturn with the naked eye and I don't think anyone in the Sumerian time frame had the ability to make glass, much less grind and focus it for distance vision.

When I was a kid, I wanted UFO's to be real so badly I swore they existed. Now, not so much. This probe was our fastest ever at 36,000 mph. The radio transmissions coming back are at the speed of light which is around 670 MILLION miles per hour (186,000 times 60 times 60). Supposedly, that's the speed limit for transporting matter across space. Our feeble technology is so far from efficient space travel it's not worth talking about.

If some distant civilization DID have the capacity to travel that fast, they'd have decades or centuries to travel to get here. How would they know where to look? We haven't been producing radio signals long enough to have raised any red flags elsewhere in the universe.

If they did have the ability and the desire and the wherewithal to come this far to check us out, would they be satisfied to take a peek at us from just inside our atmosphere? Would they send a hundred different kinds of spacecraft to the same planet? Every report of UFOs describe a different kind of "ship." The evidence just doesn't hold up. I wish the History Channel wouldn't give those ancient alien guys the time of day.

 

[CowboyJD]

 

[GoPokes43]

Signal came in tonight from New Horizons saying all is well.

 

[GoPokes43]

There are carvings of our solar system by them that depict the number and maybe even alignment. I can't remember for sure.

Apparently the thought that they may have known about the solar system comes from the tin shown in the link here (seems quite a stretch to interpret that being a representation of the solar system from a civilization that thought the world was flat):
http://etb-cosmology.blogspot.com/2012/03/did-ancient-sumerians-know-about-our.html

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

Nice, JD! And yeah, we're peeking in your window!

Great job NASA.

 

[Cowguy]

I would have had two desks for you in my class. One that butted up to the front of my desk so I could reach you with a yardstick and the one out in the hall where the principal came by and picked up lost souls.

You described 6-8 grade