OKC + Obama =
- Thread starter WCPoke
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First, I do support the first amendment; and therefore if Cletus wants to fly the Stars & Bars off his porch or tattoo it on his shoulder…go for it. But let's be honest, 99% of those types probably got their HS diploma with a wink and a nod.
Disclaimer: I get these automated periodic e-mails from the Oklahoma Farm Service Agency…you know...the standard update, what we're doing to help you'all, etc. I noticed the other day, because of the e-mail, that the State Committee Member Chairman of the Oklahoma FSA is Cletus Carter of Beaver. I've never met Cletus Carter of Beaver; hell, I've never met anyone in my life named Cletus, although, as a kid, I did love the Dukes of Hazzard. Anyway, my above post was not meant to disparage, in any manner, Cletus Carter of Beaver…or really, any Cletus in any part of the world. I'm sure Cletus Carter of Beaver totally earned his high school diploma and is probably a hell of a nice guy.
Disclaimer: I get these automated periodic e-mails from the Oklahoma Farm Service Agency…you know...the standard update, what we're doing to help you'all, etc. I noticed the other day, because of the e-mail, that the State Committee Member Chairman of the Oklahoma FSA is Cletus Carter of Beaver. I've never met Cletus Carter of Beaver; hell, I've never met anyone in my life named Cletus, although, as a kid, I did love the Dukes of Hazzard. Anyway, my above post was not meant to disparage, in any manner, Cletus Carter of Beaver…or really, any Cletus in any part of the world. I'm sure Cletus Carter of Beaver totally earned his high school diploma and is probably a hell of a nice guy.
I work nearby and got a view of these people. Let's just say calling them redneck would be a slap in the face to rednecks. They were a step or two beyond redneck.
There were still some battles fought here. There are more than 11k CS A veterans buried in our state and the last CSA general to surrender was also here in our territory.
We do have some involvement of one of the most historically significant events in US history.
Also in I am not saying take away their right to fly it. Just that with Obama coming to town there was plenty of more important things to protest then a flag that IMO has nothing to do with Obama really.
Splitting hairs here but the stars and bars is a different flag than the southern cross that was the battle flag and is most commonly identified with the CSA.
The Confederate flag is a non issue to me. It's never been my flag and has never been an symbol that's moved the needle for me.
Those clowns can wave the battle flag (or whatever the pc name for it is now) all they want for all I care. It tells me a lot about them, usually. If the flag doesn't stand for racism, why wave it at the nation's black President? What message is usually being sent by a crowd of people waving that flag?
I'd love to see a reporter hand the microphone to one of those toothless twits hopping up and down about "it represents my Southern heritage!" and say "Here, I'll give 90 seconds to explain 'your Southern heritage.'"
"Well, uh, you know, all that Southern stuff and stuff like that..."
I suspect that very, very few people who can deliver an intelligent discourse on "Southern Heritage" fly the flag on their house or have multiple bumper stickers with it on their vehicle.
I'd love to see a reporter hand the microphone to one of those toothless twits hopping up and down about "it represents my Southern heritage!" and say "Here, I'll give 90 seconds to explain 'your Southern heritage.'"
"Well, uh, you know, all that Southern stuff and stuff like that..."
I suspect that very, very few people who can deliver an intelligent discourse on "Southern Heritage" fly the flag on their house or have multiple bumper stickers with it on their vehicle.
Says the guy with signs all over his property lamenting how the government is killing his cattle.
I guess last Sunday was some kind of informal national "fly your confederate battle flag day" or something. I see some idiot with his pickem-up truck (why are they always in 15 yr old beaters? - I know, silly question) flying 5 flags going down the road here in MWC.
The rebel flag given a place of prominence in the middle of the bed, about 2-3 ft taller than any of the other flags which adorned his vehicle. The other 4 flags, flying off of each corner in the bed of the truck being Left Back - US Flag, Left Front - Texas Flag, Right Front - Univ of Texas Flag and Right Back - Gadsen (Don't Tread on Me) flag.
I wasn't particularly offended by the Stars and Bars, as I've noted - this just helps me more readily identify the idiots out there, but I was offended that he didn't have the courtesy to fly the US Flag at least the same height. I kept thinking that were probably a few airmen/navy/marine types on base a mile or so away who would gladly give him a few pointers on US Flag etiquette and likely not in the friendliest manner.
The rebel flag given a place of prominence in the middle of the bed, about 2-3 ft taller than any of the other flags which adorned his vehicle. The other 4 flags, flying off of each corner in the bed of the truck being Left Back - US Flag, Left Front - Texas Flag, Right Front - Univ of Texas Flag and Right Back - Gadsen (Don't Tread on Me) flag.
I wasn't particularly offended by the Stars and Bars, as I've noted - this just helps me more readily identify the idiots out there, but I was offended that he didn't have the courtesy to fly the US Flag at least the same height. I kept thinking that were probably a few airmen/navy/marine types on base a mile or so away who would gladly give him a few pointers on US Flag etiquette and likely not in the friendliest manner.
I put the odds of the flag bearers on the DNC payroll at 50:50
I really don't like that flag, never had one, and never will ....it does represent racism IMO (in the modern era started by democratic governors in response to the civil rights movement in early 60's).
I don't see a need for it, it is divisive and it definitely shouldn't be flown on government property.
However, as stupid as I think the flag is, and most of the people that fly it, I think there are a lot of people out there just flying it to try and piss Obama off because of his Liberal, Anti-American Policies. For some of the folks, I don't think it really has to do with racism. I think there is a certain number of people that are out there supporting the cause not because they like the flag, but because they are tired of Obama's hypocrisy and his endless politics. The man never lets a tragedy go to waste on gun control or racism.
It is pretty fvckin stupid if you think that flag had anything to do with being the cause of that maniac shooting down 9 parishoners in the church in SC. It's a heart problem, not a flag problem.
Finally, as much as I don't like the flag, I stand by those people's right to fly it...... If the PC police say we have to tolerate that damn rainbow flag, they should have to tolerate the Confederate flag.
I have no illusions that there is not a significant number of people out there flying the damn thing that truly are racist though..... As much as I want to believe this state has moved a long way away from racist ideals, this and the Darrell Williams verdict say otherwise.....
Sorry for being all over the map.... I have mixed feelings about the whole situation as you can see....
I don't see a need for it, it is divisive and it definitely shouldn't be flown on government property.
However, as stupid as I think the flag is, and most of the people that fly it, I think there are a lot of people out there just flying it to try and piss Obama off because of his Liberal, Anti-American Policies. For some of the folks, I don't think it really has to do with racism. I think there is a certain number of people that are out there supporting the cause not because they like the flag, but because they are tired of Obama's hypocrisy and his endless politics. The man never lets a tragedy go to waste on gun control or racism.
It is pretty fvckin stupid if you think that flag had anything to do with being the cause of that maniac shooting down 9 parishoners in the church in SC. It's a heart problem, not a flag problem.
Finally, as much as I don't like the flag, I stand by those people's right to fly it...... If the PC police say we have to tolerate that damn rainbow flag, they should have to tolerate the Confederate flag.
I have no illusions that there is not a significant number of people out there flying the damn thing that truly are racist though..... As much as I want to believe this state has moved a long way away from racist ideals, this and the Darrell Williams verdict say otherwise.....
Sorry for being all over the map.... I have mixed feelings about the whole situation as you can see....
Says the guy with signs all over his property lamenting how the government is killing his cattle.
It ain't the gubbenment, it's my damn neighbors' kids. Them and the aliens.
I went to Amarillo Tascosa my senior year. Tascosa Rebels. Our annual beauty pageant (don't all schools have one?) was called the Miss Southern Belle Contest. Our mascot was a guy in a Confederate uniform with a saber and the whole none yards. We had a "Confederate Flag" on the wall in the gym that covered one end of the building. It had to be at least 30' by 50'.
2,200 kids. I knew one black person. I heard there were others, but they must have been in different wings. Amarillo integrated the next year and things changed. I never bought a flag, even in school spirit, it just seemed dumb, even then.
The confederation idea didn't work the years between the Revolutionary War and the adoption of the Constitution. The Confederacy was doomed before it got started and it failed for exactly the same reasons as before. Those who don't study history ...
I agree AggiesBoy...why do you want to fly a flag of a bunch of losers? The south lost so why are they proud of that. I will say that I never associated that flag with racism...just rednecks. Hardened rednecks. People I knew to avoid. And I'm not saying that racism is not associated with that flag, just not to me. I thought those people were trucked in by some other oddball group and weren't necessarily okies. Looks like I may be wrong.
Speaking of studying history. You do realize that they did not adopt the Articles of Confederation. They made some changes to the Constitution of 1787 and adopted that.
They removed the term general welfare because it was already being abused. The made it clear that the states were sovereign. Interestingly they called thier Union permanent. And of course, they ensured the right of the states to allow slavery. There were other changes too. But it was definitely just a revised copy of our constitution not the articles.
No one would have been demonstrating had their not been the recent push against the flag.
I guess I don't really under stand what people are protesting. Do they really think that states should be flying the flag on capitol grounds? I personally don't care what flags rednecks hang in the bedroom or put in their trucks. I just don't see a good argument for flying that flag on capital grounds.
Half these idiots honestly believe that Obama is going to make or already has made the flag itself illegal. I don't know how many "Bring it on Gubment, just try to stop me from flying my flag!" type post I have on my facebook timeline.
Gubment gives a grand total of zero shits about what you do with your flag.
RECENT push against that flag? I would say that the biggest push against it occurred some 150+ years ago.
BTW, no state in the south was flying that flag on state house grounds from the end of the civil war until around 1961. And that was a response to the Civil Rights Act of 1957, the Brown v. Board of Education, Hernandez v. Texas, the Montgomery Bus desegregation order (upheld by SCOTUS) and a few others which were dismantling the legal basis for retaining the Jim Crow laws of the South.
So for nearly 100 yrs, as far as Govt Properties went (outside of cemeteries) the Confederate Flag (any permutation) had been retired. It's not like it flew uninterrupted until now.
BTW, no state in the south was flying that flag on state house grounds from the end of the civil war until around 1961. And that was a response to the Civil Rights Act of 1957, the Brown v. Board of Education, Hernandez v. Texas, the Montgomery Bus desegregation order (upheld by SCOTUS) and a few others which were dismantling the legal basis for retaining the Jim Crow laws of the South.
So for nearly 100 yrs, as far as Govt Properties went (outside of cemeteries) the Confederate Flag (any permutation) had been retired. It's not like it flew uninterrupted until now.
squeak,
I only saw a handful of people out downtown flying their flags, it seems to me that the vast majority of Oklahoman's were embarrassed by the display. "Tacky" is the word that comes to mind, and the word my late aunt would have to describe their actions.
I've lived all over the place and trust me, I know full well that every place has their share of idiots.
I only saw a handful of people out downtown flying their flags, it seems to me that the vast majority of Oklahoman's were embarrassed by the display. "Tacky" is the word that comes to mind, and the word my late aunt would have to describe their actions.
I've lived all over the place and trust me, I know full well that every place has their share of idiots.
Thor, I'm no Civil War buff, but why didn't they adopt the Articles of Confederation? Because you can't get "sovereign" states to pull together in any direction for any reason.
They agreed they wanted to be separate from the Union but never could agree on how to do it. Each state wanted their own military leaders, their own army, their own munitions, their own plan to win the war.
Somebody has to be the boss, but a confederacy won't allow that. I never understood exactly what Jefferson Davis was president of.
Doomed before they got started. That plus the fact that every port in Europe was already stacked high with three years worth of cotton and the market was dead. No cash flow.
They agreed they wanted to be separate from the Union but never could agree on how to do it. Each state wanted their own military leaders, their own army, their own munitions, their own plan to win the war.
Somebody has to be the boss, but a confederacy won't allow that. I never understood exactly what Jefferson Davis was president of.
Doomed before they got started. That plus the fact that every port in Europe was already stacked high with three years worth of cotton and the market was dead. No cash flow.
Aggies Boy,
The Confederates operated under a provisional Constitution for about a month, before formalizing and adopting their final Constitution. It is for the most part heavily borrowed from the US Constitution and much of the language and concepts are identical (including setting up an Administrative (Pres and VP), a Legislative and a Court system) as the operational elements of their Federal Govt.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Cons...vernment_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
If you read their Constitution, you can see it actually has little in common with the original US Articles of Confederation which was adopted by the Continental Congress. I think by that time, the nation (including the politicians from the South) had already learned that without some centralized govt with final say on matters, a confederation of states, each with their own relative autonomy, was like trying to herd cats.
I know their Constitution gives some lip service in claiming that each State was sovereign, but reading the rest of the Confederate Constitution, which clearly establishes a fairly powerful national/federal govt and granting it the exclusive power to do many things (that one would expect a truly "sovereign" state to do for itself), that statement seems a bit more like PR than reality. That may have been a selling point to garner support for adoption of the Constitution, but the reality differs a bit, which you can deduce just from a reading the document itself.
The Confederates operated under a provisional Constitution for about a month, before formalizing and adopting their final Constitution. It is for the most part heavily borrowed from the US Constitution and much of the language and concepts are identical (including setting up an Administrative (Pres and VP), a Legislative and a Court system) as the operational elements of their Federal Govt.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Cons...vernment_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
If you read their Constitution, you can see it actually has little in common with the original US Articles of Confederation which was adopted by the Continental Congress. I think by that time, the nation (including the politicians from the South) had already learned that without some centralized govt with final say on matters, a confederation of states, each with their own relative autonomy, was like trying to herd cats.
I know their Constitution gives some lip service in claiming that each State was sovereign, but reading the rest of the Confederate Constitution, which clearly establishes a fairly powerful national/federal govt and granting it the exclusive power to do many things (that one would expect a truly "sovereign" state to do for itself), that statement seems a bit more like PR than reality. That may have been a selling point to garner support for adoption of the Constitution, but the reality differs a bit, which you can deduce just from a reading the document itself.
Here is the definition of "Heritage" according to Merriam Webster's
"
Full Definition of HERITAGE
1
: property that descends to an heir
2
a : something transmitted by or acquired from a predecessor : legacy, inheritance
b : tradition
3
: something possessed as a result of one's natural situation or birth : birthright <the nation'sheritage of tolerance>
See heritage defined for English-language learners
See heritage defined for kids "
I don't really see the advantage to claiming "Heritage" of the South. So what birthright or legacy do you think the southern states should claim prior to 1860? I just think that is a poor word choice given the subject....
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/heritage
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