GOT. 5-24

[Been Jammin]

Overall, I think the one word that comes to mind is "meh" . It is becoming more and more obvious that HBO's writers don't have anywhere close to the level of talent as GRRM. With that said....

-They sure moved Tyrion's storyline along quickly. He is now ahead of what Martin has released. I don't anticipate much in the way of spoilers, for readers, since Dani and Tyrion were not even in Mereen at the end of Book 5. Both stories have taken different paths now.

-The Sansa part was boring. Watching Ramsay treat her poorly was like watching Joffrey once again. They are obviously setting Reek up to remember that he is Theon and to rescue her.

-Looks like Sam will be staying at the wall. I guess it makes sense to cut out the Citadel storyline, and keep someone we care about at the wall.

-Why would Jon not take Ghost with him? Makes zero sense.

-The Cersei parts were pretty close to the books.

-The Dorne parts were cheesy, but one of the Sand Snakes suddenly became much more interesting.

-Along that line of thinking...HBO had the perfect chance to let Dani show a bit of skin last night. But worked hard to make it not happen. Anyone else think it is strange that she was nude throughout most of season 1 but not since? I mean it is not like she has anything to hide, anymore.

 

[PTaxPoke]

I think the actress that plays dani doesn't want to do nude scenes anymore. I mean I am sure the producers want to throw in as much main character nudity as possible.

Did anyone notice when Sansa said that theon is the last remaining male Greyjoy? Sounds like confirmation that all the Victarion and Euron storylines are definitely out. Although to be fair she may have said son of Balon, which would still allow for Euron and Victarion to be included since they are brothers of Balon.

 

[FMPoke]

Seemed very much like a filler episode. Five different storylines get ten minutes each just to keep you up to date and non really get developed. Looks like next week will focus heavily on Jon and the wildings. I guessing Episode nine will be the traditional big battle this time at Winterfell. That leave the final episode for Cersie's walk of shame and probably the big fighting pit scene with Jorah and the big Dragon rescue of Dani. Good season ending cliffhangers.

I though the Sam storyline last night was good and got more interesting although Ghost appearance makes not sense. Is he just wandering Castle Black. He's either with Jon on caged up. The death of Maester Aemon was somewhat surprising. They are clearly setting up a Sam storyline.

Once again Dorne was like a five minute Cameo. The Bronn Sand Snakes scene was interesting and seems to be setting up something. Hopefully, because that storyline needs something to rescue it. My guess is it may have some type of major payoff next week.

I agree at this point Ramsey is just a Joffery starter kit. I thought maybe Sansa was going to stab him at some point last night. I'm guessing Thoen, Sansa and Breinna play some big part in the battle of Winterfell. Taking over the whole Mace storyline. I would expect people to start dying soon.

The one interesting advancement last night was Tyrion revealing himself to Dani. The have really fast tracked that storyline. Dani couldn't possible end up marrying Tyrion could she?

Nothing from Arya last night. Like Dorne her storyline is a huge disappointment this year.

Not sure what the hell Littlefinger is up too?

Overall you really see why GRRM cut this into two books with each focusing on different parts of the story. It's near impossible to advance six stroylines at the same time. I think they would have been better off this season if they have just had each episode focus primarily on one storyline.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

I think expecting the show to "have anywhere near the talent of GRRM" is asking them to film the books chapter by chapter, but no one wants to be watching this 20 years from now.

Providing meticulous detail down to the ingredients of food served and a cast of characters that would embarrass Cecil B. DeMille is not necessarily a sign of talent. It IS a sign of a writer with a lot of time on his hands and no experience writing with a deadline to meet.

I thought this episode set several characters on a collision course with life-changing events by the end of the season.





********SPOILER ALERT ---- SKIP TO NEXT POST IF YOU HAVENT SEEN EP 7*********







◆ Tyrion has met Dani
◆ Jon is headed north to recruit wildings (and has Sam's dragonglass)
◆ Sam's back is to the wall (with Gilly astraddle his front)
◆ Cersei and Margaery will never try to be civil to one another again
◆ Cersei has been arrested
◆ The red bitch wants to sacrifice Stannis' daughter
◆ Littlefinger and the Queen of Thorns get some things out in the open
◆ Tommen has absolutely no one in his corner. He's as helpless as a kitten.

I thought it was a strong episode.

 

[Been Jammin]

I think the actress that plays dani doesn't want to do nude scenes anymore. I mean I am sure the producers want to throw in as much main character nudity as possible.

Did anyone notice when Sansa said that theon is the last remaining male Greyjoy? Sounds like confirmation that all the Victarion and Euron storylines are definitely out. Although to be fair she may have said son of Balon, which would still allow for Euron and Victarion to be included since they are brothers of Balon.

I'm sure she doesn't want to do nude scenes anymore. I just think it is strange. She already did a bunch of them. Anyone who wants to see her can watch one of the episodes from season one. I suspect that she felt it was necessary due to her being an unknown actress. Perhaps she wasn't comfortable doing it and put a stop to it once the show was a success and she felt she had some bargaining power. Who knows.....

I thought Sansa said the last surviving son of Balon. I know she mentioned Balon because I remember thinking that it was the first confirmation that Balon was still alive despite Melisandre naming a leech after him and throwing it in the fire.

 

[Been Jammin]

@AggiesBoy

Let me rephrase my point about HBO v. GRRM. So far this season, when HBO has strayed far from GRRM's outline, the story line has really fallen off.

They have done some things differently in past seasons, but the changes have been mostly minor, or things that GRRM outlined but HBO dug into more deeply (like the Theon transition into Reek).

Another example, from last season, was Bran's party ending up at Craster's keep. That was a scenario that didn;t happen in the books and was an HBO creation to try to flesh out Bran's story. Those events seemed very silly in many ways.

HBO has 2 significant stumbling blocks that are causing the show to suffer, IMO. 1). They are running out of GRRM material and are having to make a ton of stuff up on the fly. 2). They are trying to condense a ton of stuff into a small number of remaining episodes (maximum of 2 more seasons after this one), and move characters around to position them where they want them to be for the endgame.

The poor writing, and characters not acting the way they have in previous seasons, is really becoming more and more noticeable with each episode.

 

[JonnyVito]

I swear I saw nipple on Dani for half to a full second. I don't know why she would have a problem with nudity as she did some Broadway stuff naked also after season one GOT. I do find it odd she is never nude and it seems like she is nude quite often in the books.

 

[MegaPoke]

Again, this is an adaptation. I didn't read the books and don't plan to. Therefore I don't care how it matches up.

From the standpoint of watching a tv show, I found this episode very enjoyable. There are a lot of story lines to advance and sometimes a great show needs an episode that just does that.

Anyone remember the Breaking Bad episode where Walt spent an hour trying to catch a fly?

 

[Air_Thurman]

Not sure what they are setting Stannis up for. At first, they were making him the "good guy" with an unstoppable army. Now it seems like they are going to have him sacrifice his own daughter. That would be a tad crazy.

 

[Been Jammin]

Not sure what they are setting Stannis up for. At first, they were making him the "good guy" with an unstoppable army. Now it seems like they are going to have him sacrifice his own daughter. That would be a tad crazy.

It is strange. 2 episodes ago, he had an emotional speech about how much he loved her. Now M wants him to burn her. Maybe they are setting up for a split between M and Stannis? My guess is that they want to eliminate M from the story and will have Stannis choose Shireen over M and he will kill M instead. That would be more in line with the Stannis that HBO has created this season.

If you think about how things are going in the books, it seems likely that the wall will fall with Jon out of the picture. That might result in Stannis attempting to organize some type of northern defense against the White Walkers/Wite army. If HBO expects similar events to take place, it would make sense that they develop Stannis as one of heroes of the story.

 

[JonnyVito]

So the guy who freed Tyrion was maybe Strong Belwas? The one who cut the chains so he could run out to Dani.

 

[Been Jammin]

So the guy who freed Tyrion was maybe Strong Belwas? The one who cut the chains so he could run out to Dani.

I wouldn't count on that. HBO doesn't seem likely to add a minor character who doesn't do much of anything in the books. I think he was just some random guy who we won't see again.

 

[JonnyVito]

I have a GOT problem so I read all the news articles on Monday about Sunday's episodes and in one I read they made that suggestion.

Who here can't stop singing the Dornish man's wife? If my wife will let me I might just name my first born son Bronn.

 

[Cowpoke]

Again, this is an adaptation. I didn't read the books and don't plan to. Therefore I don't care how it matches up.

From the standpoint of watching a tv show, I found this episode very enjoyable. There are a lot of story lines to advance and sometimes a great show needs an episode that just does that.

Anyone remember the Breaking Bad episode where Walt spent an hour trying to catch a fly?

I enjoyed it too, moreso than the last couple of episodes. The Dornish bit was a hell of a lt better anyway...mmhmm.

Aemon's death seemed a bit sudden though. I mean, not that its unrealistic that a 100 and whatever year old man will die pretty suddenly, but it just felt like a scene was cut out.

I get the feeling athat a bunch of actors and actresses have made it known that they were only going to do this for 2 more years. I don't think this is HBO's wish, things really seem to be getting rushed now.

 

[Been Jammin]

I get the feeling athat a bunch of actors and actresses have made it known that they were only going to do this for 2 more years. I don't think this is HBO's wish, things really seem to be getting rushed now.

Agreed. You can really tell that they are trying to move things along very quickly. I wonder if the ratings are trending downward, and HBO is the one driving this (rather than the actors).

 

[JonnyVito]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...on-6_n_7444072.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

Here is a link to an interesting article about possible casting for season 6. Very interesting maybe some story lines are not dead after all.

 

[Been Jammin]

Interesting article. A lot of speculation. Some of it seems unlikely unless HBO plans to keep the show going more than 2 additional seasons. Opening up some of those additional story lines would fill up quite a few episodes it seems.

 

[Cowpoke]

st coup

Agreed. You can really tell that they are trying to move things along very quickly. I wonder if the ratings are trending downward, and HBO is the one driving this (rather than the actors).

Maybe but those rating would have had to have started trending down a season or two ago for it to impact their plan to cut this down to 2 more seasons and adjust all of the story lines. It would only take one main actor calling it quits to really screw things up. Replacing the Mountain or Daario is not too jaring, replacing any of about 10 - 15 other characters would really hurt the show.

 

[Air_Thurman]

I could be wrong but I don't think the ratings have dropped much at all. The season premiere was the most watched episode of the series. Either way HBO has never really been ratings driven like a network. I think I read somewhere that this is the most expensive tv show in TV history.

 

[Orange Jennyslipper]

The conflict between Stannis and Melisandre over whether or not to kill the scaly-skinned munchkin may set up to be the most interesting of this season, imo. Is Stannis the most able commander in the Seven Kingdoms or has his good fortune been a result of Melisandre's directing the power of the god of light or whoever it is on Stannis' behalf?

I think it's a pivotal question. Is there a god? Are there seven gods? Are the new gods better than the old? Can they control events, and if so, can they be manipulated into controlling events by someone like Melisandre?

I am also anxious to see the fallout of the meeting of Dani and Tyrion. If they put their heads together and form an alliance, I think the whole series shifts into overdrive.

I read an interesting factoid about Sam giving the Dragonglass to Jon. Someone referred to the weapon as Chekhov's gun. He's one of my favorite short story writers but I hadn't heard this paraphrase of his: "If (when you are writing a story) you mention a gun hanging over the mantle in chapter 1, the trigger must be pulled in chapter 2, chapter 3 at the latest. Otherwise, leave it out of the story!"

Maybe that's been my subconscious problem with GoT all along. Too many details that don't lead anywhere. Too many characters who don't deserve to draw a breath. I far prefer reading short stories to novels, but novels are better than a series. As my second freshman comp professor told us in 1973, "Don't tell me, 'The fuzzy feline loped gracefully across the thoroughfare.' Just say, 'The cat ran across the road.'"

 

[Air_Thurman]

I could be wrong but I think Stannis' fame as a military commander came before the red lady. That's not to say she hasn't helped him in recent years but he had a ton of success before she came along.

 

[Been Jammin]

I could be wrong but I think Stannis' fame as a military commander came before the red lady. That's not to say she hasn't helped him in recent years but he had a ton of success before she came along.

This is accurate, per the books. He is known as an elite military commander who is extremely lacking in social graces. He is a master of military strategy who always finds a way to come out on top (on both land and sea).

Other than Melisandre giving birth to his shadow son (who does Stannis' dirty work on two occasions), there is no evidence that Melisandre's god helps Stannis in any way. If we want to be accurate, Stannis really doesn't have much success in the books, other than catching the wildlings by surprise and routing their ragtag army. They have the element of surprise plus the fact that Stannis' men are mounted and seasoned. Despite the numbers mismatch, there is no reason that the Wildlings could have expected to match up in that situation.

 

[TheRedSon]

I've never understood why Stannis has such a reputation as a military leader.

What is his great military accomishment? During the Rebellion he spent most of it holed up in Storm's End. Granted, he never surrendered his ancestrial home to far superior numbers, but that's kind of what fortresses are supposed to do. He deserves credit there for being stubborn as Hell (which is consistent with his personality and how everyone else sees him), but not for being a genious.

Meanwhile, while he was doing a lot of sitting around and listening to people's stomaches growl his brother and Ned were winning a war.

Then we've got the current war... He beats Renly through magic. He gets his forces slaughtered on the Blackwater because he couldn't find time or the desire to make peace with the Tyrells and leaves Melisandre at home. He does route the Wildlings at the Wall, but he hit them with surprise, a trained cavalry against a force arrayed for siege (no pikes) and let's be honest... The Wildlings numbers are greatly exaggerated. They can field perhaps 1,000 men/women that actually possess something resembling iron-age weapons and armor. There's a reason the old Bear thought he could combat the Wildlings 100,000's with 300 men. Then, after his one great victory he decides to March his army to Winterfell IN WINTER! That's got to be twice as dumb as starting a land war in Asia.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Maybe it doesn't point to a strategic mind but Stannis being able to to keep the siege of Storm's End going kept the Tyrell's busy during the rebellion which was massive. He basically kept one of the biggest (if not biggest) armies out of the rebellion.

After the siege he then was able to capture Dragonstone for his brother. He was also master of ships under his brother and actually defeated Victarion Greyjoy and the Iron Fleet which seems like a pretty big deal.

 

[Been Jammin]

Maybe it doesn't point to a strategic mind but Stannis being able to to keep the siege of Storm's End going kept the Tyrell's busy during the rebellion which was massive. He basically kept one of the biggest (if not biggest) armies out of the rebellion.

After the siege he then was able to capture Dragonstone for his brother. He was also master of ships under his brother and actually defeated Victarion Greyjoy and the Iron Fleet which seems like a pretty big deal.

Was just about to post the same thing. My take is that throughout the history of Westeros, there have been military leaders who have had great successes leading armies. There have also been military leaders who have proven to be exceptional at winning naval battles. Stannis proved his mettle on both land and sea, and I suspect that there have not been many men who have excelled at both. Overcoming VG, and the ironborn was the main accomplishment that earned him so much respect as a military strategist. The Ironborn simply don't lose sea-based wars.

@TheRedSon , In Stannis' defense, when he set out for Winterfell, he knew that "Winter is coming", but it hadn't quite made it that far south yet. He thought he had a window to work with, but the blizzard like conditions arrived sooner than he expected. That takes us back to his stubbornness. It might have been smart to turn south and try to get out of the storms and into shelter, but Stannis would never pick that option.

 

[Air_Thurman]

Interesting tidbit. The title of the season finale was finally released. It will be Mother's Mercy. Make of that what you will.

 

[Been Jammin]

Interesting tidbit. The title of the season finale was finally released. It will be Mother's Mercy. Make of that what you will.

Could be any number of things.

I have seen speculation that it will be the debut of Lady Stoneheart, but I am dubious.

Could have to do with Dani who is the "Mother" of Dragons (and freed men).

Could have to do with Cersei and her walk of shame, since she is Tommen's mother and will be in need of mercy.

My guess is that it is in reference to Arya: See below.

Spoiler

="For those that have seen already released chapters of Winds of Winter, there is one involving Arya, where she kills one of the men on her list by posing as a mummer named "Mercy". We already know that Meryn Treant is headed to Bravos. "]

 

[Air_Thurman]

Spoiler

Just thought it was interesting because Lady Stoneheart is listed in the appendix as Mother of Mercy or something like that. Could mean nothing.

 

[Cowpoke]

Hmmmm, maybe she finds Brienne.
It just seems like a really seperated storyline though, and would be tough to weave back into the show. The band that she ends up with in the books is pretty well forgotten of now in the show.

 

[TheRedSon]

Forgot he defeated the Iron Born at sea. I'll give him major props for that. I'm going to assume he had a major numbers advantage as well as the support of Redwyne (who we do have reason to believe is more than competent naval commander), but still an impressive win.

Yes, holding the siege kept the Tyrell army stationed at Storm's End... Because Mace Tyrell is an idiot. Could have kept Stannis pinned with 2,000 men and let the best general loyal to the throne (Tarly) loose.

I think Stannis is tough and determined, and also competent, tested and "in the rite" regarding his claim. I just balk at calling him a master strategist.

 

[JonnyVito]

So do any of you think that Jon's story this season will end where book 5 left off?

 

[Cowpoke]

So do any of you think that Jon's story this season will end where book 5 left off?

Yeah,

Spoiler: Spoilerish

they are foreshadowing the hell out of it with the kid giving pissed off looks.

 

[Been Jammin]

Agree with Cowpoke. If I were producing for HBO, that is how I would want to end Jon's story for this season. However, there is a lot that has to happen to get to that point. Tomorrow's episode appears to be about Jon and Tormund north of the wall. I think there are 2 more episodes after that Jon has to make it back to the wall, let the Wildlings come through. Then the events you are referring to have to be developed and take place.

 

[FMPoke]

Could be any number of things.

I have seen speculation that it will be the debut of Lady Stoneheart, but I am dubious.

Could have to do with Dani who is the "Mother" of Dragons (and freed men).

Could have to do with Cersei and her walk of shame, since she is Tommen's mother and will be in need of mercy.

My guess is that it is in reference to Arya: See below.

Spoiler

="For those that have seen already released chapters of Winds of Winter, there is one involving Arya, where she kills one of the men on her list by posing as a mummer named "Mercy". We already know that Meryn Treant is headed to Bravos. "]

My guess is it's a dual title about Dani and Cersei. With Cersei it would be the walk of shame which I have log expected to be episode ten. With Dani it's more open but maybe something to do with Tyrion. Very dubious about Lady Stoneheart. Everything I have heard or read to this point about the series indicates the character has been cut.

 

[TheRedSon]

Dany (the mother) will have mercy on Tyrion (a Lannister, a family she has called the Usurper's dogs) and perhaps Jorah Mormont as well.