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Caitlin Gets It Right … Again

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Ponca Dan said:
caitlinjohnstone.com.au

I Oppose Israel’s Atrocities In Gaza Because I’m Not A Psychopath

I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I love Hamas or hate Jews or love Islam or hate America. I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m a lefty or a commie or an anarchist or an anti-i…
caitlinjohnstone.com.au caitlinjohnstone.com.au
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Anyone calling what is going on in Gaza right now genocide is dishonest, historically illiterate, pushing an agenda, a complete dumbass and can not be taken seriously.
 
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2012Bearcat said:
Anyone calling what is going on in Gaza right now genocide is dishonest, historically illiterate, pushing an agenda, a complete dumbass and can not be taken seriously.
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It’s funny how many hundreds of thousands take her seriously.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
caitlinjohnstone.com.au

I Oppose Israel’s Atrocities In Gaza Because I’m Not A Psychopath

I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I love Hamas or hate Jews or love Islam or hate America. I don’t oppose the butchery in Gaza because I’m a lefty or a commie or an anarchist or an anti-i…
caitlinjohnstone.com.au caitlinjohnstone.com.au
Click to expand...
I want to address a key paragraph right at the start:

Opposing Israel’s butchery in Gaza is so obvious, so common sense, such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, Being Human 101 position that if it isn’t immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic facts, your problem is much, much deeper than whatever ideology or bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There’s something wrong with you as a person.

That's her statement. Which basic facts is she referring to? Because it seems like the basic facts that I've seen must be fundamentally different than the basic facts she's seen. Where can I find her facts? What doesn't she tell me these facts? Instead she goes on a total whiny bitch rant about the response to US protestors, why millennials can't buy houses, and every other generational problem that libs have wrought upon themselves.

What's sad is she's usually a pretty good (if not liberal) writer, but this story is an emotional trainwreck with zero substance.
 
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aix_xpert said:
I want to address a key paragraph right at the start:

Opposing Israel’s butchery in Gaza is so obvious, so common sense, such a bare-minimum, fundamental-level, Being Human 101 position that if it isn’t immediately self-evident to you after learning the basic facts, your problem is much, much deeper than whatever ideology or bias or prejudice you might happen to have. There’s something wrong with you as a person.

That's her statement. Which basic facts is she referring to? Because it seems like the basic facts that I've seen must be fundamentally different than the basic facts she's seen. Where can I find her facts? What doesn't she tell me these facts? Instead she goes on a total whiny bitch rant about the response to US protestors, why millennials can't buy houses, and every other generational problem that libs have wrought upon themselves.

What's sad is she's usually a pretty good (if not liberal) writer, but this story is an emotional trainwreck with zero substance.
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Aren’t you the one who said he’s a right-leaning libertarian? Well, she’s a left-leaning libertarian. She’s written about the Israeli genocide every day for months now. If you had read any of her posts over the months you would find multiple links to “facts on the ground.” I think the difference between her insulting you and your pro-genocide partners compared to you and your pro-genocide partners attempts to insult me is she is very effective and adult about it while you and your pro-genocide partners are amateurish and juvenile. That’s why she makes you so upset, while you don’t have that effect on me. In addition to her showing you how badly you are being manipulated she could teach you how to better present your ad hominems.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Aren’t you the one who said he’s a right-leaning libertarian? Well, she’s a left-leaning libertarian. She’s written about the Israeli genocide every day for months now. If you had read any of her posts over the months you would find multiple links to “facts on the ground.” I think the difference between her insulting you and your pro-genocide partners compared to you and your pro-genocide partners attempts to insult me is she is very effective and adult about it while you and your pro-genocide partners are amateurish and juvenile. That’s why she makes you so upset, while you don’t have that effect on me. In addition to her showing you how badly you are being manipulated she could teach you how to better present your ad hominems.
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Being that we don't have any pro-genocide advocates here, I must ask are you confusing political boards?
 
Tulsaaggieson said:
Being that we don't have any pro-genocide advocates here, I must ask are you confusing political boards?
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Would you prefer it if I started referring to you as anti-anti-genociders? I could shorten it to AAGer’s. Look, I know you guys have what (I think) is an unreasonable loyalty to Israel, so loyal you’ll do anything to defend her actions even going so far as pretending what Netanyahu and company are doing is “war” and not genocide. But you of all AAGers know better. Killing defenseless people at will is not war.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Would you prefer it if I started referring to you as anti-anti-genociders? I could shorten it to AAGer’s. Look, I know you guys have what (I think) is an unreasonable loyalty to Israel, so loyal you’ll do anything to defend her actions even going so far as pretending what Netanyahu and company are doing is “war” and not genocide. But you of all AAGers know better. Killing defenseless people at will is not war.
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I have seen no credible reports of IDF killing civilians. Defenseless Hamas may be another story. However, I will have to point out that in war killing a defenseless enemy is preferable to killing a defending enemy. The entire goal is to shoot your enemy in the back so they can't shoot you. Generals are not trying to have a fair fight. Let me also remind you that Hamas brought this on themselves.
 
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Tulsaaggieson said:
I have seen no credible reports of IDF killing civilians. Defenseless Hamas may be another story. However, I will have to point out that in war killing a defenseless enemy is preferable to killing a defending enemy. The entire goal is to shoot your enemy in the back so they can't shoot you. Generals are not trying to have a fair fight. Let me also remind you that Hamas brought this on themselves.
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From whom does a credible report have to come? The IDF itself? It's one thing to kill a defenseless enemy in wartime. It's another thing to kill at will defenseless civilians who are not an enemy but are caught in a nightmare crossfire they are not responsible for. When you were a warrior if you shot defenseless civilians, women and children - and babies! - in either the front or the back you are a monstor equal to that of Hamas. The IDF has shown itself to be such a monster. And for you to shrug it off as a consequence of "war" is reprehensible.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
From who does a credible report have to come? The IDF itself? It's one thing to kill a defenseless enemy in wartime. It's another thing to kill at will defenseless civilians who are not an enemy but are caught in a nightmare crossfire they are not responsible for. When you were a warrior if you shot defenseless civilians, women and children - and babies! - in either the front or the back you are a monstor equal to that of Hamas. The IDF has shown itself to be such a monster. And for you to shrug it off as a consequence of "war" is reprehensible.
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No Dan I did not shoot defenseless civilians, women, and children in the back or from the front for that matter. I'm a bit perturbed I actually have to articulate that to you. However, I do recognize that civilians were killed in many of the engagements I was a part of. To my knowledge, no one intended to harm civilians and they were just caught in the wrong spot at the wrong time. It's why I reiterate that if you are a civilian, you should not get caught between two warring factions. I would not willingly put myself and especially my family next to a military target as a civilian. I would get as far away from the fighting as possible. For some, they make a choice to stay, like riding out a category 5 hurricane next to the ocean. For others they may be forced to stay by that military force that is a target. This happened in every conflict I was engaged in. There are so many ways for civilians to die in war that they make 1,000 ways to die look like a small number.

Now you show me a video of an IDF sniper pulling the trigger on a defenseless child and laughing about it and I will take a look no matter how gruesome it would be. So far you have not produced that video. On the other hand, the IDF is dropping leaflets telling civilians to get out of the way. Let me be clear. I have zero respect for Hamas and do not trust a thing they say. They are desperate, and they will do what desperate people do, and that is not typically tied to the truth.

I can go on and remind you that I have stated there will be fewer civilian deaths the faster this war is over, and someone has to win. No cease-fire will stop civilians from being killed. I am being more humanitarian than you are. History tells me this, history tells me your stance will lead to more death.
 
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Tulsaaggieson said:
No Dan I did not shoot defenseless civilians, women, and children in the back or from the front for that matter. I'm a bit perturbed I actually have to articulate that to you. However, I do recognize that civilians were killed in many of the engagements I was a part of. To my knowledge, no one intended to harm civilians and they were just caught in the wrong spot at the wrong time. It's why I reiterate that if you are a civilian, you should not get caught between two warring factions. I would not willingly put myself and especially my family next to a military target as a civilian. I would get as far away from the fighting as possible. For some, they make a choice to stay, like riding out a category 5 hurricane next to the ocean. For others they may be forced to stay by that military force that is a target. This happened in every conflict I was engaged in. There are so many ways for civilians to die in war that they make 1,000 ways to die look like a small number.

Now you show me a video of an IDF sniper pulling the trigger on a defenseless child and laughing about it and I will take a look no matter how gruesome it would be. So far you have not produced that video. On the other hand, the IDF is dropping leaflets telling civilians to get out of the way. Let me be clear. I have zero respect for Hamas and do not trust a thing they say. They are desperate, and they will do what desperate people do, and that is not typically tied to the truth.

I can go on and remind you that I have stated there will be fewer civilian deaths the faster this war is over, and someone has to win. No cease-fire will stop civilians from being killed. I am being more humanitarian than you are. History tells me this, history tells me your stance will lead to more death.
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Dan and people like him don't understand this. They look no further than today and have no thoughts of what allowing a problem to fester has on the future.
 
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Tulsaaggieson said:
No Dan I did not shoot defenseless civilians, women, and children in the back or from the front for that matter. I'm a bit perturbed I actually have to articulate that to you. However, I do recognize that civilians were killed in many of the engagements I was a part of. To my knowledge, no one intended to harm civilians and they were just caught in the wrong spot at the wrong time. It's why I reiterate that if you are a civilian, you should not get caught between two warring factions. I would not willingly put myself and especially my family next to a military target as a civilian. I would get as far away from the fighting as possible. For some, they make a choice to stay, like riding out a category 5 hurricane next to the ocean. For others they may be forced to stay by that military force that is a target. This happened in every conflict I was engaged in. There are so many ways for civilians to die in war that they make 1,000 ways to die look like a small number.

Now you show me a video of an IDF sniper pulling the trigger on a defenseless child and laughing about it and I will take a look no matter how gruesome it would be. So far you have not produced that video. On the other hand, the IDF is dropping leaflets telling civilians to get out of the way. Let me be clear. I have zero respect for Hamas and do not trust a thing they say. They are desperate, and they will do what desperate people do, and that is not typically tied to the truth.

I can go on and remind you that I have stated there will be fewer civilian deaths the faster this war is over, and someone has to win. No cease-fire will stop civilians from being killed. I am being more humanitarian than you are. History tells me this, history tells me your stance will lead to more death.
Click to expand...
Let's get this out of the way first and get the air cleared. I did not accuse you of shooting innocent civilains, and if you had read it closely you would have known that and not have been perturbed. But I do accuse IDF soldiers of doing precisely that and there are multiple videos of women, for instance, being shot from a distance. And multiple accounts from doctors, some of them Americans who have volunteered to do what they can for the people of Gaza who report children being brought in having ben shot, some of them shot in the head. You can choose to believe it is all Hamas propaganda if you want, but those videos are part of the reason thousands of Amerian college students are rising up in protest of what the IDF is doing. It is laughable, so laughable I can't believe you of all people on this board would talk about how the innocent Gazans aren't getting away from Hamas. As if there is any place they could go! I can easily see folks like Bearcat using that as justification for the IDF slaughtering innocents - it's the innocents' fault! - but I know you know better. As for the video of IDF snipers betting on who can have the best head shot of a Palestinian child who is hundreds of yards away I have told you I have not seen it, have only heard that it exists. Whether is is real or not neither of us know, but the fact is we both assume it may exist, and you can claim you don't make any such assumption, but I'd bet deep in your soul you know you do. You say there will be fewer civilian casualties the sooner the "war" (read: one-sided slaughter) ends. Well, it could end immediately if Israel would stop slaughtering people that had nothing to do with Oct. 7.
 
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Once again, in these videos of women being shot, are you able to identify the shooter? Kind of a key piece of evidence don't you think? As far as the children the students are once again relying on information without the key part which is who was the shooter. The students are taking the words of Hamas when it comes to the number of children dead, how many are dead, and how many civilians are dead. All of these are so wildly all over the place, it's hard to believe they found time to publish that information. Israel has consistently declared zones for citizens of Gaza to go to. If you want humanitarian aid, and to get these people out of the way of fighting, then where is Egypt to allow them entry? Where is Jordan to accept refugees? You and the students are basing your outrage and rioting on information that is incomplete at best and complete hogwash at worst. The fact that students are rioting over that tells me our education system is in complete shambles. At least in Vietnam, you had soldiers coming home from the war, and the war was visible on everyone's television screens. There is no reliable coverage of the war, and you are relying on social media sites with no credible first-hand information whatsoever.

Give me the video, and I will take a look. Till then, you and the students look foolish. Give me a genocide to look at, and I will see it, but I'm not going to take the word of Hamas or students who post their bad knowledge on Tic Tok. The students are correct, they are poorly educated, which scares me more about my retirement than whether or not a genocide is taking place.
 
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Ponca Dan said:
Aren’t you the one who said he’s a right-leaning libertarian? Well, she’s a left-leaning libertarian. She’s written about the Israeli genocide every day for months now. If you had read any of her posts over the months you would find multiple links to “facts on the ground.” I think the difference between her insulting you and your pro-genocide partners compared to you and your pro-genocide partners attempts to insult me is she is very effective and adult about it while you and your pro-genocide partners are amateurish and juvenile. That’s why she makes you so upset, while you don’t have that effect on me. In addition to her showing you how badly you are being manipulated she could teach you how to better present your ad hominems.
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Yes, calling people "Foam-brained bootlickers" is so adult. I bet she's friends with Theta.
 
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