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#winning or #losing?

davidallen

MegaPoke is insane
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Aug 15, 2006
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With the last gasp repeal of ACA headed for defeat (just like the 80 previous attempts), with now the 3rd iteration of a travel ban, with Mexico not paying for any kind of wall (and saying basic maintenance is evidence that the wall is happening), waffling on DACA, increasing the debt limit without any substantive progress on tax reform, considering a firmly entrenched Mueller, with the revelations that personal email use is rampant, etc...

Is DJT #winning or #losing 9 months in?
 
Is DJT #winning or #losing 9 months in?

Your question would make more sense in a dictatorial government. Since all spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, I wrote my representative Liz Cheney about a month ago. It was a very short email which asked, “Can we have a border wall yet?”

No response from Liz or one of her staff interns. She sucks. I voted for one of her opponents in the primary.

Anyway, to answer your question, I’d say he is losing but I place most of the responsibility on congressional Republicans. They mostly suck like Liz does.
 
Your question would make more sense in a dictatorial government. Since all spending bills originate in the House of Representatives, I wrote my representative Liz Cheney about a month ago. It was a very short email which asked, “Can we have a border wall yet?”

No response from Liz or one of her staff interns. She sucks. I voted for one of her opponents in the primary.

Anyway, to answer your question, I’d say he is losing but I place most of the responsibility on congressional Republicans. They mostly suck like Liz does.


As has been the case for a long time, the citizens are losing and the politicians are mostly winning.

For whatever reason (there seem to perhaps be many) the people are not motivated to vote out the corruption in spite of their ability to do so.

I think many hoped that Trump would be different. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if he is - Congress and the Supremes are what really matters.

Not that it matters, but I don't really think Trump is all that different aside from the boorish behavior.

As @MegaPoke pointed out, IMO your statement should read 'Might've been the fact that Obama didn't immediately act like a total asshole.'

I personally find the general distinction between urbane asshole and boorish asshole to be irrelevant.
 
As has been the case for a long time, the citizens are losing and the politicians are mostly winning.

For whatever reason (there seem to perhaps be many) the people are not motivated to vote out the corruption in spite of their ability to do so.

I think many hoped that Trump would be different. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter if he is - Congress and the Supremes are what really matters.

Not that it matters, but I don't really think Trump is all that different aside from the boorish behavior.

"...the people are not motivated to vote out the corruption in spite of their ability to do so."

Why do you suppose that is? One reason may be that people think their particular representative is wonderful; it's all those other bastards that are making life miserable. And, of course, their particular representative assures them that is the case with his/her every utterance.
 
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Of which political battle for civil rights do you refer?
Sorry,I've had a long day, I'm going to bed. I'll be happy to pick this up with you tomorrow, provided you're willing to have an actual discussion and not turn it into a contest of which of us can make the wittiest remarks that don't really lead to a resolution. You would easily win that contest. I have very little patience for that kind of conversation.
 
"...the people are not motivated to vote out the corruption in spite of their ability to do so."

Why do you suppose that is? One reason may be that people think their particular representative is wonderful; it's all those other bastards that are making life miserable. And, of course, their particular representative assures them that is the case with his/her every utterance.

To randomly throw some darts toward the board...

Willful ignorance?
An inability to discern who is lying (the most)?
Selfish indifference?

Wait for it...

Anarchism?

To be clear, I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at you. I am tossing out that certain flavors of anarchist want to see the system implode under the weight of the corruption and watch it all burn.

For the record, I lean libertarian but firmly believe that extrapolating any ideologies to their final logical conclusion is ultimately folly - the selfishness and diversity of opinion innate to human nature does not permit it to ever approach reality.

That's just one rube's opinion however - you are welcome to (and in all likelihood do) disagree.
 
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Beyond this, he has accomplished nothing and divided our country significantly further than it was before.
He is also systematically reducing governmental regulation from executive agencies.
Anything requiring assistance from the Republican party has been a failure. Not sure how much of that you put on Trump.
 
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He is also systematically reducing governmental regulation from executive agencies.
Anything requiring assistance from the Republican party has been a failure. Not sure how much of that you put on Trump.

Well, they all suck. The Dems also. I should not say "all", because I am sure there are some who actually care about the country and the people they represent. But, the overwhelming majority (including Trump) only care about adding to their personal wealth, and feeling popular.
 
Beyond this, he has accomplished nothing and divided our country significantly further than it was before.

snowflake response generated by snowflake news

if trump was anything less than a crass bully

he would have been swallowed up long ago and hildecankles would be running the feel good show all the while selling america down the river
 
Well, they all suck. The Dems also. I should not say "all", because I am sure there are some who actually care about the country and the people they represent. But, the overwhelming majority (including Trump) only care about adding to their personal wealth, and feeling popular.

at the least trump built his wealth in the business world

hillary built hers selling out america
 
at the least trump built his wealth in the business world

hillary built hers selling out america

OK. Does any of that mean that Trump is doing a good job as POTUS? I'm more interested in him improving the future of our country than I am in what he has done in the past.
 
OK. Does any of that mean that Trump is doing a good job as POTUS? I'm more interested in him improving the future of our country than I am in what he has done in the past.

fair question

if you're watching cnn polls the answer would be no

take daca and the uproar

trump wants to move daca from executive order to law made by congress

he has reached across the aisle to paper up the dreamers, yet who is taking the heat?

so if america wants to play stupid trump is gonna keep hammering at stupid

because i believe the only way to quash stupid is to move through the absurd

this transgender cheerleading things got legs

and balls
 
Tune out the noise.

What has any politician accomplished other than perpetuating the game?
 
To randomly throw some darts toward the board...

Willful ignorance?
An inability to discern who is lying (the most)?
Selfish indifference?

Wait for it...

Anarchism?

To be clear, I'm not trying to take a cheap shot at you. I am tossing out that certain flavors of anarchist want to see the system implode under the weight of the corruption and watch it all burn.

For the record, I lean libertarian but firmly believe that extrapolating any ideologies to their final logical conclusion is ultimately folly - the selfishness and diversity of opinion innate to human nature does not permit it to ever approach reality.

That's just one rube's opinion however - you are welcome to (and in all likelihood do) disagree.


Thank you for your thoughtful response. I think you make excellent points.

I do think, however, you misunderstand what anarchism is, and confuse it with bomb throwers. Anarchism, properly understood, is the advocacy of a stateless society. It does not propose replacing one type of government with another. People like Occupy Wall Street would be well served to carry placards that say "Anarchist For Big Government." They're statists in every detail of their thought. They would love to see the government implode so they could erect their own dictates to society. But they are far removed from anarchism.

As for your contention that extreme ideologies are not possible, I completely agree. The purpose of extreme "utopian" philosophies is to persuade society to move in that direction. Totalitarianism on one extreme, anarchism on the other. Society waffles back and forth.
 
I'll go more towards #losing at least in regards to the latest NFL/Flag fiasco. The left and its supporters were doing just fine relegating their opinion as out-of-touch, unpopular, and anti-American. However, once he opened his mouth, he allowed these protests to be an Anti-Trump position rather than an Anti-American position, and anything Anti-Trump is popular and enthusiasticly supported in today's society.

I actually feel like most of his positions and governing priorities have been on track and his governing has been good. Unfortunately, its all completely lost because of his narcissistic need to be THE story. His position with NK is exactly right. He's actually right on DACA. It shouldn't be an executive order. It should be defined as legislation, regardless of what it looks like, do it right and not by imperial fiat.

Unfortunately, the media and the President would prefer to treat running the government like a reality TV show, and the members of Congress are too busy worried about being re-elected to do any actual governing.

We've somehow managed to lose the fact that government is supposed to make hard decisions that have consequences. Not everyone will like every result. But through compromise and communication, we get centrist results that are square to the vast majorities. But now-a-days, thats not viable. We now have 538 Congressmen who have positions that are 100% immobile. So we'll pass what we can get 50+1 to agree on, or wait until the next election cycle to try again. No give and take. No listening (on either side. R's didnt listen to D's during Obama, and D's don't listen to R's now). So we'll continue with the same broken government sh!tshow until we either can't print more money or have a revolt.

Edit: Hopefully I'll be dead before we reach one of those two things.
 
With the last gasp repeal of ACA headed for defeat (just like the 80 previous attempts), with now the 3rd iteration of a travel ban, with Mexico not paying for any kind of wall (and saying basic maintenance is evidence that the wall is happening), waffling on DACA, increasing the debt limit without any substantive progress on tax reform, considering a firmly entrenched Mueller, with the revelations that personal email use is rampant, etc...

Is DJT #winning or #losing 9 months in?
Nothing personal David, I think you're a good guy, but you can put me down as #idontgiveashit. I'm exasperated by people condemning others for the same things they've said and done. Both sides. You should feel honored, this is the first time I've ever used a # reference.
 
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Nothing personal David, I think you're a good guy, but you can put me down as #idontgiveashit. I'm exasperated by people condemning others for the same things they've said and done. Both sides. You should feel honored, this is the first time I've ever used a # reference.
Truly impressed!

I clearly care a hell of a lot less now than I did 9 months ago. Not sure that is a good thing, but it is. From my perspective Trump is failing in part because he doesn't care/doesn't want to learn how to work the system, which is IMO a good thing.
 
I'll go more towards #losing at least in regards to the latest NFL/Flag fiasco. The left and its supporters were doing just fine relegating their opinion as out-of-touch, unpopular, and anti-American. However, once he opened his mouth, he allowed these protests to be an Anti-Trump position rather than an Anti-American position, and anything Anti-Trump is popular and enthusiasticly supported in today's society.

I actually feel like most of his positions and governing priorities have been on track and his governing has been good. Unfortunately, its all completely lost because of his narcissistic need to be THE story. His position with NK is exactly right. He's actually right on DACA. It shouldn't be an executive order. It should be defined as legislation, regardless of what it looks like, do it right and not by imperial fiat.

Unfortunately, the media and the President would prefer to treat running the government like a reality TV show, and the members of Congress are too busy worried about being re-elected to do any actual governing.

We've somehow managed to lose the fact that government is supposed to make hard decisions that have consequences. Not everyone will like every result. But through compromise and communication, we get centrist results that are square to the vast majorities. But now-a-days, thats not viable. We now have 538 Congressmen who have positions that are 100% immobile. So we'll pass what we can get 50+1 to agree on, or wait until the next election cycle to try again. No give and take. No listening (on either side. R's didnt listen to D's during Obama, and D's don't listen to R's now). So we'll continue with the same broken government sh!tshow until we either can't print more money or have a revolt.

Edit: Hopefully I'll be dead before we reach one of those two things.
Much here I agree with...
 
Tune out the noise.

What has any politician accomplished other than perpetuating the game?
A short and certainly incomplete list of positives achieved in the last decade or so:
  • LGBT Rights
  • Environmental Improvements
  • Access to Education
  • The reasonably orderly deconstruction of Communism in China and the slow but steady liberalization of their society
  • Reduction of overall violence in American Society
Hard to attribute any of these to one politician - rather these are movements that you could say succeeded despite some of our politicians best efforts.
 
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The American people are the losers in every political battle.
Sorry,I've had a long day, I'm going to bed. I'll be happy to pick this up with you tomorrow, provided you're willing to have an actual discussion and not turn it into a contest of which of us can make the wittiest remarks that don't really lead to a resolution. You would easily win that contest. I have very little patience for that kind of conversation.
Civil Rights Act of 1964 - significant political battle to get enacted. Were the American people losers?
 
Sorry,I've had a long day, I'm going to bed. I'll be happy to pick this up with you tomorrow, provided you're willing to have an actual discussion and not turn it into a contest of which of us can make the wittiest remarks that don't really lead to a resolution. You would easily win that contest. I have very little patience for that kind of conversation.

Nothing we do here is gonna lead to any resolution....never going to change anything.

Surely you realize that, right?
 
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A short and certainly incomplete list of positives achieved in the last decade or so:
  • LGBT Rights
  • Environmental Improvements
  • Access to Education
  • The reasonably orderly deconstruction of Communism in China and the slow but steady liberalization of their society
  • Reduction of overall violence in American Society
Hard to attribute any of these to one politician - rather these are movements that you could say succeeded despite some of our politicians best efforts.

David, I respect you and our opinions aren't usually excessively different, but for fun, I'm going to counter argue this point:

LGBT Rights - Agreed, however, I'd argue that they've overstepped their bounds. Guys who believe they are women don't belong in Women's athletics. Prescribing hormone blockers to pre-teen kids so they don't develop their natural adult organs should be child abuse and not a "civil rights" issue.

Environmental Improvements - Agree although again, this shift is as much due to the explosion of Natural gas usage as any legislation. In fact, if we were to have listened to our "green energy" & "Save the world" ecologists who rail against Natural gas usage and waited until even cleaner technologies were available, we'd not seen a fraction of our recent savings.

Access to Education - To whom and at what cost? Yes, we now provide educational opportunity to every individual regardless of citizenship, however, in turn have made our inner city schools require Spanish speaking teachers and have dropped from one of the highest rated G20 education systems to one of the worst G20 education systems. In addition, we've accelarated college expenses at 2-4 times the annual inflation rate and have saddled Americans with a new $1T in school debt (that's non-dischargable). Finally, you've created a system where we've promoted college education to such an extent that the average and below average graduates can't find jobs that utilize their degrees (or even require them) as we've out-educated large segments of the job market.

Deconstruction of Communism in China - Wholeheartedly agree. Open trade with China (wasn't this initiated by Nixon?) has slowly done what it was hoped to do. China's people live a significantly improved life with significantly improved freedoms. Its still Communist. But its a much softer communist.

Reduction of overall violence in American Society - I think this is statistically correct, although I'd argue that its shifting away from the prior trends. I'd also note that we as a society have significantly increased our tolerance for violence. We don't even talk about gang shootings any more. We are completely numb to the murders that are shown nearly daily on the local news. We have factions of society that celebrate rioting in the streets. I saw last week (or two) when the St. Louis police officer was acquited, that business were boarding up their windows (like a hurricane was coming) to minimize the damage that the 'peaceful' protesters would cause. I'd also note the general acceptance of groups like Antifa who regularly condone violence against those whose opinions aren't aligned to their own.
 
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David, I respect you and our opinions aren't usually excessively different, but for fun, I'm going to counter argue this point:

LGBT Rights - Agreed, however, I'd argue that they've overstepped their bounds. Guys who believe they are women don't belong in Women's athletics. Prescribing hormone blockers to pre-teen kids so they don't develop their natural adult organs should be child abuse and not a "civil rights" issue.

Environmental Improvements - Agree although again, this shift is as much due to the explosion of Natural gas usage as any legislation. In fact, if we were to have listened to our "green energy" & "Save the world" ecologists who rail against Natural gas usage and waited until even cleaner technologies were available, we'd not seen a fraction of our recent savings.

Access to Education - To whom and at what cost? Yes, we now provide educational opportunity to every individual regardless of citizenship, however, in turn have made our inner city schools require Spanish speaking teachers and have dropped from one of the highest rated G20 education systems to one of the worst G20 education systems. In addition, we've accelarated college expenses at 2-4 times the annual inflation rate and have saddled Americans with a new $1T in school debt (that's non-dischargable). Finally, you've created a system where we've promoted college education to such an extent that the average and below average graduates can't find jobs that utilize their degrees (or even require them) as we've out-educated large segments of the job market.

Deconstruction of Communism in China - Wholeheartedly agree. Open trade with China (wasn't this initiated by Nixon?) has slowly done what it was hoped to do. China's people live a significantly improved life with significantly improved freedoms. Its still Communist. But its a much softer communist.

Reduction of overall violence in American Society - I think this is statistically correct, although I'd argue that its shifting away from the prior trends. I'd also note that we as a society have significantly increased our tolerance for violence. We don't even talk about gang shootings any more. We are completely numb to the murders that are shown nearly daily on the local news. We have factions of society that celebrate rioting in the streets. I saw last week (or two) when the St. Louis police officer was acquited, that business were boarding up their windows (like a hurricane was coming) to minimize the damage that the 'peaceful' protesters would cause. I'd also note the general acceptance of groups like Antifa who regularly condone violence against those whose opinions aren't aligned to their own.

well said
 
Nothing personal David, I think you're a good guy, but you can put me down as #idontgiveashit. I'm exasperated by people condemning others for the same things they've said and done. Both sides. You should feel honored, this is the first time I've ever used a # reference.
Civil Rights Act of 1964 - significant political battle to get enacted. Were the American people losers?


https://www.mises.ca/the-libertarian-case-against-the-civil-rights-act-of-1964/
 
Seeing how the whole system has been designed by career politicians and bureaucrats to keep career politicians and bureaucrats in power it's hard for anyone of any political stripe to make real change.

Conservative judges and dismantling as much as possible the regulatory shadow government that basically makes law without legislation is a good start.

Still way to many swamp monsters, even in the President's own inner circle. The purging process is going to take time.
 
Is your opinion the same as that outlined in the article? Do you believe that the Civil Rights Act was a violation of your private property rights?


Yes, David, I agree that Title II & Title VII are a violation of private property rights.
 
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