Winds of Winter - HBO Will Beat GRRM
- Thread starter The Duke
- Start date
Sux
Oh well. It would have happened with Book 7 if it didn't happen with this one.
Going to be tough not to watch and to also avoid spoilers, so I guess I will watch it.
Oh well. It would have happened with Book 7 if it didn't happen with this one.
Going to be tough not to watch and to also avoid spoilers, so I guess I will watch it.
Couple thoughts....first, you don't really know (like with the end of Stannis scene from last season) what is true to the book and what isn't. It's like I don't get spoiled because I don't know what is "real". In any case, I enjoy the books for what they are, and they aren't TV shows. Re-reading the series now, I no doubt enjoy it more than the first reading because I know what will happen (the whole thing has been "spoiled"), and you can spend mental energy trying to piece out what events mean and how they'll influence the future, as opposed to digesting new material and trying to figure out who is doing what and why.
As some examples, in a re-read, you can pay very special attention to every word about Jon's physical appearance, Bran's dreams and future, the relationships between the Stark kids and their wolves, Howland Reed's background, and anything related to Lyanna's death and the TOJ.
And second, I don't want the thing rushed. Let it be written as it should be written. There's not much out there that compares, so I don't want Martin f-ing it up by cutting corners. Try and see the bright side in him being a slow-ass writer.
I used to get all mad that Martin was taking forever but I have since moved into the camp that 100tons is in. I want a quality product from Martin rather then him hurry it up just to beat HBO. Plus like he said once the main story lines are spoiled you can focus better on little details in the books. Plus seeing it on HBO kinda helps me when I am reading as I can visualize the story better in my head. The only thing that bothers me about him taking so long is I have to wait to know the ending. I am not the most patent person when wanting to know the ending to a story.
I agree with most of what you are saying. However, I would counter that there is a difference in reading a book for the second time (where you can focus more on things that you now know are important) and reading a book for the first time when someone has already spoiled a good portion of the book for you.
For example, right now, I am very much looking forward to finding out what GRRM does with Davos and his search for Rickon. Now, HBO may not even go in that direction, and may not spoil even an ounce of that storyline. But, if they do send Davos to Skaagos, and show us how Davos finds Rickon and how he either "rescues" him or convinces him to return back to the North, then I don't think I will enjoy reading GRRM's version nearly as much. Personally, if I have to choose between the 2 media, I would prefer to read about the events before seeing them on TV. The main difference is that the reader can get inside the POV character's head and know what they are thinking. Obviously, HBO has to try to find ways to get that across to the viewer, but can only do so much.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter all that much because if Book 6 wasn't spoiled, Book 7 clearly would have been. I guess the big picture will come down to 2 things.....
1). How much does HBO know? Obviously, Martin had not written the last 2 books when he met with HBO. He gave them a crude outline of the final fate of the main characters. But, will HBO have to come up with their own way of getting those characters from where they are now (point A) to Point B?
2). Even if GRRM did give them fairly detailed information on each character's arc, will he purposely change a lot of it to differentiate his story from the HBO story? Or, will significant changes to the story come naturally as the last 2 books unfold? I'm sure that a lot of key characters have already taken different paths than what GRRM envisioned after Book 2 was completed, and those changes have nothing to do with HBO.
Either way, both HBO's version and GRRM's version should be extremely enjoyable to digest.
What is it about the Davos story that you find compelling? That he's looking for Rickon?
On that note, I'm not sure what I make of a Rickon return. Obviously he would become the Lord of Winterfell if there was a Winterfell to be lord of at that point. The thing is a wreck and could be under 20 feet of snow when he returns. The interesting part to me will be how Martin turns a very angry 4 year old (who may be more than that if indications of his wolf's personality are a clue) into a character in the evolved storyline. While I'm sure the people who populate the online ASOIAF world could tell me, I'm not even sure how old Rickon should be now. What would he be capable of? I'm guessing he brings Rickon back and he lays waste to the Frey's in as savage a manner as possible....but who knows.
Well, the simple answer to your question is that I just really like Davos as a character. It is not so much the Rickon aspect of the story as it is that I am interested to see how Davos handles the situation. I am curious if he will be more of a smuggler, who tries to sneak onto the island and spirit him away, or more of a diplomat who convinces the inhabitants of Skagos to part with Rickon of their own free well and maybe even convinces them to fight for Stannis.
In addition, I also like Wyman Manderly and am wondering if his plan to reunite the North (against the Lannister/Bolton/Frey cause) will come to fruition. It pretty much hinges on Davos succeeding in bringing Rickon back to the North. I see him more as a figurehead than as an actual leader initially. By the end of the 7th book, that could easily change. I think we all expect a united North to be a key part of defending Westeros against The Others. Rickon would seem to be a key piece to the puzzle (although Jon, Sansa or Arya could potentially step into that role as well). If it turns out to be Rickon, he seems likely to finish the story as Lord of Winterfell and King/Warden of the North.
To each his own, I could care less about Davos the character but am interested in how the wolf's savage nature manifests itself in the boy.
Regarding bringing back Rickon, why does it need to be so complicated? He was born and raised at Winterfell, his family is "there", so to speak--I'd think someone could just show up and tell him "it's time to come home", and just about anyone would want to leave the foreign land they inhabit for home. Davos is just a simple messenger in that case, once he finds the boy.
Maybe.
But, I don't expect Rickon or Osha to have any reason to trust Davos. They are fugitives and know that they have a lot of enemies out there. In addition, the inhabitants of Skaagos are rumored to be barbaric cannibals. Maybe Osha has some friends there, but are those people going to be welcoming to Davos? Or, maybe the rumors are not true and are propagated by the Skaagos people to keep others away from their island. Regardless, I don't anticipate that Davos is just going to show up, tell a story and leave with Rickon. He is either going to have to sneak in and spirit him away, or do a lot of cajoling and convincing.
I with you all on the quality product thing but come on he's finished one book in the last eleven years. Dances with Dragons came out in 2011 following Feast of Crowes in 2005 and bear in mind they were originally one book. At this point I just don't see how the delays have anything to do with needing enough time to avoid compromising the quality of the product. It has much more to do with him setting priorities and working on other projects instead of finishing the Fire and Ice series.
At this point you basically have two projects. They books and the HBO series using the same characters but going there own way. No matter which one finishes first you are going to have significant differences based on the limitations of the TV series. I think I would just as soon they run out the TV series and then I'll go back and pick up the books to fill in. I'm sure the show runners have all the knowledge they need to finish the series and at this point details of the books aren't going to change their path much. The biggest danger to me is the off stated one the Martin never finishes the books due to death or failing health. At his current pace if Winds of Winter comes out in 2016 we are looking at 2021 or 20122 for A Dream of Spring. Martin will be 76 years old and he ain't the picture of health.
At this point you basically have two projects. They books and the HBO series using the same characters but going there own way. No matter which one finishes first you are going to have significant differences based on the limitations of the TV series. I think I would just as soon they run out the TV series and then I'll go back and pick up the books to fill in. I'm sure the show runners have all the knowledge they need to finish the series and at this point details of the books aren't going to change their path much. The biggest danger to me is the off stated one the Martin never finishes the books due to death or failing health. At his current pace if Winds of Winter comes out in 2016 we are looking at 2021 or 20122 for A Dream of Spring. Martin will be 76 years old and he ain't the picture of health.
Here's my prediction. Winds of Winter won't beat next season either.
Martin is a three year old in a man's body. The more criticism he receives for being slow as molasses, the longer he's going to take to get out the next installment to punish fans. He's a tool.
Honestly, the TV show is better than the books anyway.
Martin is a three year old in a man's body. The more criticism he receives for being slow as molasses, the longer he's going to take to get out the next installment to punish fans. He's a tool.
Honestly, the TV show is better than the books anyway.
Disagree with every single word. He's old and slowing down. The book delay is not a punishment to anyone. And just don't know what to say about thinking the show is better than the books, I guess if you prefer the light version of things, that could be true. To each his own.
My take on GRRM being slow has always been that his speed has been inversely proportional to his popularity and success. He is over 70 and is living life to its fullest, and doing what he wants to do. When he was younger, and less wealthy, the writing was more of a priority. Now, it has dropped lower on his priority list. Honestly, I think it is annoying but I guess I can understand it. If he really wanted to, he could have both remaining books finished 3-4 years from now. But, that would require him to focus 100% on making that happen and he would have to put everything else on the back burner. That isn't going to happen.
With that said, I will be surprised if WOW isn't released before the end of 2016. He did try to make the Jan 1 deadline. He failed, but he has to be pretty close to the finish line.
With that said, I will be surprised if WOW isn't released before the end of 2016. He did try to make the Jan 1 deadline. He failed, but he has to be pretty close to the finish line.
