Will Automakers Abandon EV Plans on Wage Inflation?

[windriverrange]

Will Automakers Abandon EV Plans on Wage Inflation?

Spiraling wages could force automakers to significantly pivot their business plans.

www.theepochtimes.com

What if the whole point of this strike is for the car companies to grant wage increases to a degree, but then tell the allegedly union friendly administration that the wage increases will necessitate the dropping of EV pursuits for now. China has been flooding Europe with cheap EV's & Hybrids, though the EU just opened an investigation how they can sell such vehicles so cheaply. They will do the same here. How much money is being paid/given to politician's/individuals by the CCP to not raise a ruckus over the Big 3 dropping EV pursuits for now & conversely not raising the alarm over heavily government subsidized chinese crap making that would make them more affordable than anything made in the US.

Be interesting to see how many of our parasitic whore politicians have bought loads of stock in the chinese EV/Hybrid vehicle makers?

Few interesting headlines recently
Ford Expects to Lose $4.5B on EVs This Year
Luxury Electric Vehicle Maker Loses over $500,000 on Every Vehicle Sold
Running Out of Juice: Unsold Electric Cars Are Piling Up on Dealer Lots
Vast Majority of Cars Cost More to Charge Than Fill Up With Gas: Study
Is Biden's electric car dream falling flat - Majority of Americans say federal incentives are not convincing them to buy an EV
Values Of Used EVs Plummet, As Dealers Stuck With Unsold Cars
The dirty secret behind your electric vehicles exposed: How the TIRES produce 20% more pollution than their gas equivalents - as experts slam 'big monster' EVs

 

[AC2020]

EVs aren't sustainable under our current setup.

Watch fuel prices rise even more. That'll teach us!

 

[trapped_in_tx]

Will Automakers Abandon EV Plans on Wage Inflation?

Spiraling wages could force automakers to significantly pivot their business plans.

www.theepochtimes.com

What if the whole point of this strike is for the car companies to grant wage increases to a degree, but then tell the allegedly union friendly administration that the wage increases will necessitate the dropping of EV pursuits for now. China has been flooding Europe with cheap EV's & Hybrids, though the EU just opened an investigation how they can sell such vehicles so cheaply. They will do the same here. How much money is being paid/given to politician's/individuals by the CCP to not raise a ruckus over the Big 3 dropping EV pursuits for now & conversely not raising the alarm over heavily government subsidized chinese crap making that would make them more affordable than anything made in the US.

Be interesting to see how many of our parasitic whore politicians have bought loads of stock in the chinese EV/Hybrid vehicle makers?

Few interesting headlines recently
Ford Expects to Lose $4.5B on EVs This Year
Luxury Electric Vehicle Maker Loses over $500,000 on Every Vehicle Sold
Running Out of Juice: Unsold Electric Cars Are Piling Up on Dealer Lots
Vast Majority of Cars Cost More to Charge Than Fill Up With Gas: Study
Is Biden's electric car dream falling flat - Majority of Americans say federal incentives are not convincing them to buy an EV
Values Of Used EVs Plummet, As Dealers Stuck With Unsold Cars
The dirty secret behind your electric vehicles exposed: How the TIRES produce 20% more pollution than their gas equivalents - as experts slam 'big monster' EVs

There’s no investigation needed.

Chinese stuff is cheap because:

* They stole the tech
* They abuse their labor force
* Their quality is comically bad

This has not changed in the last 20+ years.

I would ride down I35 on a $50 skateboard with an electric motor that I had personally retrofitted before I would consider doing so in a Chinese EV

 

[Ponca Dan]

There’s no investigation needed.

Chinese stuff is cheap because:

* They stole the tech
* They abuse their labor force
* Their quality is comically bad

This has not changed in the last 20+ years.

I would ride down I35 on a $50 skateboard with an electric motor that I had personally retrofitted before I would consider doing so in a Chinese EV

That being true there is nothing for anyone to worry about. They will fall face first splat on the floor when they introduce their comically bad EV's to the American market.

 

[2012Bearcat]

From what I understand in talking to a couple of UAW Auto workers that live in Michigan, part of the strike is about securing job security for the length of the contract to directly combat the threat EVs have on autoworker's employment. Would seem like a deal breaker for the Manufactures to me but who knows.
Just passing along what I heard from people involved and directly effected.

 

[trapped_in_tx]

That being true there is nothing for anyone to worry about. They will fall face first splat on the floor when they introduce their comically bad EV's to the American market.

Only if American regulators have not been effectively bribed to look the other way by the Chinese.

I’m sure that would never happen in our pristine republic

 

[Ponca Dan]

Only if American regulators have not been effectively bribed to look the other way by the Chinese.

I’m sure that would never happen in our pristine republic

It won't matter. If they're as bad as you expect them to be no one will buy them. Remember the Yugo?

 

[trapped_in_tx]

It won't matter. If they're as bad as you expect them to be no one will buy them. Remember the Yugo?

People don’t buy based on quality. They buy based on emotion. Our culture has groomed everyone to do so over decades of effective psy-ops - oops, I mean effective marketing.

Just because you and I use logic, cost-benefit analysis, and risk assessment to make such decisions, that doesn’t mean most people do

 

[Forpetessake]

It won't matter. If they're as bad as you expect them to be no one will buy them. Remember the Yugo?

If the economy puts the average price of an ev in the us at 53k . That puts the average monthly payment with good credit at + $1000 per month. If china introduces cheap ev's they will be purchased, just the same as we purchase cheap knock off products from china now. Most people look at their cost now, as opposed to ownership of the vehicle.

 

[Ponca Dan]

If the economy puts the average price of an ev in the us at 53k . That puts the average monthly payment with good credit at + $1000 per month. If china introduces cheap ev's they will be purchased, just the same as we purchase cheap knock off products from china now. Most people look at their cost now, as opposed to ownership of the vehicle.

There's nothing wrong with that. People spend their money on what they want to spend it on. But the old addage: "Fool me once ..." applies. If the product is horrible people will find out rather quickly. And then if they still want to buy it that's on them.

 

[Forpetessake]

There's nothing wrong with that. People spend their money on what they want to spend it on. But the old addage: "Fool me once ..." applies. If the product is horrible people will find out rather quickly. And then if they still want to buy it that's on them.

We have been fooled more than once by China. We just enjoy the bludgeoning we have been getting for more than a decade. We just like pain, I guess.

 

[Ponca Dan]

We have been fooled more than once by China. We just enjoy the bludgeoning we have been getting for more than a decade. We just like pain, I guess.

Who are the "we" to which you refer? What bludgeoning have we received? I'm not necessaily disagreeing with your sentiment, I just don't know for sure what you mean.

 

[Forpetessake]

The American people are we. We have been buying cheap Chinese knock offs. We paid for products like a Zebco 33 Classic. Well the chinese have Xeroxed that reel and sell it for a lot less. So what does Zebco do? They make their reels in china so they can compete with labor. We do not care about quality as much as we care about cost.



p

 

[Ponca Dan]

The American people are we. We have been buying cheap Chinese knock offs. We paid for products like a Zebco 33 Classic. Well the chinese have Xeroxed that reel and sell it for a lot less. So what does Zebco do? They make their reels in china so they can compete with labor. We do not care about quality as much as we care about cost.



p

Please forgive my ignorance, I don't know what Zebco 33 Classic is, so I don't know what you mean by "Xeroxed." I assume you mean they stole the technology in order to make a cheaper quality and have been allowed to sell it in America. If that is the case I am 100% in agreement with you that they should not be allowed to get away with that, steal the technlogy. Why do you suppose they have been allowed to get away with it?

 

[22LR]

Will Automakers Abandon EV Plans on Wage Inflation?

Spiraling wages could force automakers to significantly pivot their business plans.

www.theepochtimes.com

What if the whole point of this strike is for the car companies to grant wage increases to a degree, but then tell the allegedly union friendly administration that the wage increases will necessitate the dropping of EV pursuits for now. China has been flooding Europe with cheap EV's & Hybrids, though the EU just opened an investigation how they can sell such vehicles so cheaply. They will do the same here. How much money is being paid/given to politician's/individuals by the CCP to not raise a ruckus over the Big 3 dropping EV pursuits for now & conversely not raising the alarm over heavily government subsidized chinese crap making that would make them more affordable than anything made in the US.

Be interesting to see how many of our parasitic whore politicians have bought loads of stock in the chinese EV/Hybrid vehicle makers?

Few interesting headlines recently
Ford Expects to Lose $4.5B on EVs This Year
Luxury Electric Vehicle Maker Loses over $500,000 on Every Vehicle Sold
Running Out of Juice: Unsold Electric Cars Are Piling Up on Dealer Lots
Vast Majority of Cars Cost More to Charge Than Fill Up With Gas: Study
Is Biden's electric car dream falling flat - Majority of Americans say federal incentives are not convincing them to buy an EV
Values Of Used EVs Plummet, As Dealers Stuck With Unsold Cars
The dirty secret behind your electric vehicles exposed: How the TIRES produce 20% more pollution than their gas equivalents - as experts slam 'big monster' EVs

Interesting take. This reminds me of 1991 when Toyota was found guilty of “dumping” cheap vans on the US market.

Japanese accused of dumping minivans in U.S.

The three U.S.-owned automakers joined forces and took their competition with the Japanese into new territory last week, filing an "anti-dumping" complaint against minivans imported by Toyota...

www.tampabay.com

 

[Forpetessake]

Please forgive my ignorance, I don't know what Zebco 33 Classic is, so I don't know what you mean by "Xeroxed." I assume you mean they stole the technology in order to make a cheaper quality and have been allowed to sell it in America. If that is the case I am 100% in agreement with you that they should not be allowed to get away with that, steal the technlogy. Why do you suppose they have been allowed to get away with it?

china and intellectual property theft - Google Search

www.google.com

you know what a 33 classic is man. Its the most known reel of all time. Made in 1954


Stolen IP is what they do and have done for decades.

 

[Ponca Dan]

china and intellectual property theft - Google Search

www.google.com

you know what a 33 classic is man. Its the most known reel of all time. Made in 1954


Stolen IP is what they do and have done for decades.

Why do you suppose the rest of the world lets them get away with it?

 

[Headhunter]

Why do you suppose the rest of the world lets them get away with it?

Because free trade globalists are corrupt and don't give a damn about people and jobs as long as there is profit in it.

Of course that's your ideal business model so I guess everything is good.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Because free trade globalists are corrupt and don't give a damn about people and jobs as long as there is profit in it.

Of course that's your ideal business model so I guess everything is good.

I have never heard of a free trade advocate endorsing industrial theft of any kind. Your notion is seriously flawed.

 

[Forpetessake]

Because free trade globalists are corrupt and don't give a damn about people and jobs as long as there is profit in it.

Of course that's your ideal business model so I guess everything is good.

ding ding ding we have a winner $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Forpetessake]

I have never heard of a free trade advocate endorsing industrial theft of any kind. Your notion is seriously flawed.

cheap labor equals higher corp profits.

 

[Ponca Dan]

cheap labor equals higher corp profits.

Which has nothing to do with industrial theft.

 

[22LR]

I have never heard of a free trade advocate endorsing industrial theft of any kind. Your notion is seriously flawed.

Imagine a free trade advocate standing at the podium saying, “I endorse industrial theft”. Making money at any cost is what drives corporations, even if it means stealing IP. Your naivety, Dan, is what is seriously flawed.

 

[Headhunter]

I have never heard of a free trade advocate endorsing industrial theft of any kind. Your notion is seriously flawed.

My idea of industrial theft is when countries are allowed open trade with no restrictions using child and slave labor to undercut market competitors. But has long as consumers get their goods at the cheapest price all is good in the free trade universe.

 

[Forpetessake]

Which has nothing to do with industrial theft.

the others answered it for me.

 

[aix_xpert]

From what I understand in talking to a couple of UAW Auto workers that live in Michigan, part of the strike is about securing job security for the length of the contract to directly combat the threat EVs have on autoworker's employment. Would seem like a deal breaker for the Manufactures to me but who knows.
Just passing along what I heard from people involved and directly effected.

My understanding is that they are trying to force the manufacturers to require the battery manufacturers that Biden is subsidizing to be in the US to be UAW shops in order for the Big 3 Automakers to buy their battery packs. Currently the battery companies are not unionized, which seems smart given the price pressures they are already facing from China.

 

[22LR]

One idea of industrial theft is a company in China who custom manufactures goods to ship to their American customer for resale. They put on secret night shifts, and pirated product goes out the back door using their customer's tooling and equipment. Then the product makes it's way to the US where it is sold by greedy bastards on places like Ebay and by retailers.

Another idea of industrial theft are poor quality (and even excellent quality) knock-offs that steal an American company's name and logo. My company was a victim of such.

Not so much industrial theft, but something that really pisses me off, is also by the very companies that own the name and trademark, and manufacture their goods in "Foreign Trade Zones" in China, LEGALLY label them as Made in USA, and sold LEGALLY in the US as Made in USA. This scam was a collaboration between corporations and our dear globalist government.

American workers are screwed - both union and non-union. Those Chinese EV's will eventually have Ford and GM logos on them, and be welcomed into the US. Just like everything else in your house that is made in China.

 

[Ponca Dan]

My idea of industrial theft is when countries are allowed open trade with no restrictions using child and slave labor to undercut market competitors. But has long as consumers get their goods at the cheapest price all is good in the free trade universe.

I think I know what you are trying to say but you are combining theft and cheap labor into one definition. No free market advocate endorses theft or slave labor, to think they do is absurd. Anyone or any enterprise that steals the ideas, technology, production practices from the person or enterprise who invented or developed the ideas, etc., and/or forces slaves to do the work is not practicing free enterprise. I have assumed that is something everybody already knew.

 

[Ponca Dan]

One idea of industrial theft is a company in China who custom manufactures goods to ship to their American customer for resale. They put on secret night shifts, and pirated product goes out the back door using their customer's tooling and equipment. Then the product makes it's way to the US where it is sold by greedy bastards on places like Ebay and by retailers.

Another idea of industrial theft are poor quality (and even excellent quality) knock-offs that steal an American company's name and logo. My company was a victim of such.

Not so much industrial theft, but something that really pisses me off, is also by the very companies that own the name and trademark, and manufacture their goods in "Foreign Trade Zones" in China, LEGALLY label them as Made in USA, and sold LEGALLY in the US as Made in USA. This scam was a collaboration between corporations and our dear globalist government.

American workers are screwed - both union and non-union. Those Chinese EV's will eventually have Ford and GM logos on them, and be welcomed into the US. Just like everything else in your house that is made in China.

My point, the only point I’m unsuccessfully trying to make, is none of that has anything to do with free markets. I and every other advocate of free markets condemns that with just as much conviction as you.

 

[Headhunter]

I think I know what you are trying to say but you are combining theft and cheap labor into one definition. No free market advocate endorses theft or slave labor, to think they do is absurd. Anyone or any enterprise that steals the ideas, technology, production practices from the person or enterprise who invented or developed the ideas, etc., and/or forces slaves to do the work is not practicing free enterprise. I have assumed that is something everybody already knew.

Yet you want unfettered open trade with China and all the other bad actors of the world.

 

[aix_xpert]

I think I know what you are trying to say but you are combining theft and cheap labor into one definition. No free market advocate endorses theft or slave labor, to think they do is absurd. Anyone or any enterprise that steals the ideas, technology, production practices from the person or enterprise who invented or developed the ideas, etc., and/or forces slaves to do the work is not practicing free enterprise. I have assumed that is something everybody already knew.

So you'd support government imposed trade restrictions against China? Because we know they commit IP theft. And we know they use child labor. If not trade restrictions, how else do you eliminate and enforce those theft and labor practices? You can say you are against child labor and IP theft, but its just lip service if you don't support some type of punishment for said crimes.

 

[aix_xpert]

My point, the only point I’m unsuccessfully trying to make, is none of that has anything to do with free markets. I and every other advocate of free markets condemns that with just as much conviction as you.

You are being to textbook. Your idea of a free market sounds great, except it doesn't exist because it assumes there's no bad actors. And you have no mechanism to prevent or eliminate the bad actors (because then that wouldn't be free trade).

 

[Ponca Dan]

Yet you want unfettered open trade with China and all the other bad actors of the world.

I want free trade with products whose technology has not been stolen, yes.

 

[aix_xpert]

I want free trade with products whose technology has not been stolen, yes.

Can you name that product?

 

[Ponca Dan]

So you'd support government imposed trade restrictions against China? Because we know they commit IP theft. And we know they use child labor. If not trade restrictions, how else do you eliminate and enforce those theft and labor practices? You can say you are against child labor and IP theft, but its just lip service if you don't support some type of punishment for said crimes.

Sure, I would support restrictions on products made from stolen intellectual property.

 

[aix_xpert]

Sure, I would support restrictions on products made from stolen intellectual property.

What about those made with Child labor?

 

[Ponca Dan]

You are being to textbook. Your idea of a free market sounds great, except it doesn't exist because it assumes there's no bad actors. And you have no mechanism to prevent or eliminate the bad actors (because then that wouldn't be free trade).

Nothing about the concept of free trade assumes there are no bad actors. Where on earth did you get that idea?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Can you name that product?

Vacuum cleaners.

 

[Ponca Dan]

What about those made with Child labor?

That’s a much trickier proposition that requires a deep understanding/analysis of the reasons it is practiced.

 

[aix_xpert]

Nothing about the concept of free trade assumes there are no bad actors. Where on earth did you get that idea?

You are against governments being involved in trade restrictions, tarriffing, etc. You've said so many times on this forum.