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Wheel of Time TV series

So I’ve never read WOT but is it semi sorta comparable to GOT and/or TLOTR? Think I heard women have magic and it’s sorta Medieval in nature?

More comparable to LOTR. GOT goes to great lengths to pretend it’s not a fantasy at times. It’s very much a fantasy, but you can read 300 pages at a time without it feeling all that different than historical fiction about the War of Roses.

The first book was actually built intentionally to feel like FOTR, but it branches out from there.

Where it is most similar to GOT is in its scope. The books were all 800 pages or more, and there are 14 of them. There are literally hundreds of characters, a deep history, a massive world to explore and a very deep plot.

It is set at the end of a midieval period. The world is on the verge of discovering military uses of black powder and the steam engine, but still a few years away.

This is my favorite fantasy series. Part of that is because I discovered it at 15. I bought the first book the day my family moved back to Texas from Stillwater, and there is no doubt it spoke to me largely because three of the main characters are teen age boys leaving home for the first time. I’m not sure it would be my favorite had I discovered it at 35, and to be sure my favorite characters then aren’t necessarily my favorite characters now.

Apocalypse - This world is 3,000 years into recovery from two back-to-back apocalypses. The first was the War of Power in which the Dark One himself was able to touch the world. The “Dark One” in this series being a diety on equal footing with the Creator of the universe. In the war both halves of the One Power were used for violence at ridiculous levels. Had the war gone on long enough it could have ended humanity. As it was, 100 of the strongest male “Wizards” (which is not a term used in this series, but the word fits, mostly) went against their order and sealed the Dark One and his 13 strongest followers outside the Wheel of Time, but the seal was brittle because it was only one half of the creative force. The second apocalypse is because the Dark One touched Saidin (the male half of the power) while he was being sealed away with it and left his taint on it. That taint causes all men that touch Saidin to eventually become sick and go mad. For 300 years these insane male wizards laid waste to the worled in what was known as The Breaking.

Aftermath - The female half of the source became the only safe half. Their order take patches to never use their power for violence against humans, never use it to create a weapon for humans to use against humans and to never lie, and they use their power to bind each member to this. They hunt down all men that can touch the source for “gentling” (severed from the part of them that can touch Saidin), all women that can touch it for training and indoctrination and guard the world’s knowledge and try to keep it prepared for the next time the Dark One returns.

All of this is problematic because the prophecied messiah is a man. The return of a man who went mad and began The Breaking of the World, but also the man who lead the Hubdred Conpanions that ended the War of Power.

One of these women knows this messiah has been born already, and that their age is coming to an end. She has been hunting for him for most of two decades when the story begins (there is a novella about the day she learned this and the first few months after as well called New Spring).

Anyway, I’m excited. It could be a fun ride.
 
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I read the first book based on this thread and it was pretty meh. A few good characters but nothing overly unique or compelling. Pretty much one long chase scene.

I mean... You’re not wrong. I just disagree about the quality of it, and you could have literally said the same thing about The Fellowship of the Ring and half the content of LOTR after it.

Curious which characters you liked. Unlike the rest of the series the first book has a limited cast. For the most part it deals with just 9 characters (although many of the characters you met in addition to them will return as major side characters with multiple POV chapters, and two as main characters starting with the second book).

My favorites among that original cast of 9 (now anyway) are Moiraine, Lan, Thom and Nynaeve. Had you asked me at 15 I’d have said Rand, Perrin and Loial (and probably still Lan).
 
I'm a huge fan of the books. Far superior to GoT IMHO.

The adaptation is a dumpster fire that just got hit by a train. They keep adding dumb stuff while trying to rush through the plot at the same time.
 
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I'm a huge fan of the books. Far superior to GoT IMHO.

The adaptation is a dumpster fire that just got hit by a train. They keep adding dumb stuff while trying to rush through the plot at the same time.

I read some reviews on IMDb and reading how they changed fundamental aspects of both the character and relationships of Rand, Perrin, Mat, and Egwene had me shaking my head and I am not exactly a major fan of the books.

They changed things that lead to the complete eroding of the motivation of those characters to do majorly huge things throughout many points of their story arcs.

Combining that with the fact that the main characters are racially diverse in a world where racial differences were well explained as part of the story (and Rand was the only one of the initial 4-5 main characters who was actually a different race) I just have a hard time not seeing the entire adaptation as a total sell out to try and appeal to trendy ideas.

If it somehow improves I might try it but I don’t have any reason to believe I’ll enjoy it based on what I’ve read so far.
 
That actually encourages me. I remember reading the first book and not ever going after book 2. Maybe these changes will make the tv series better.
 
Alright… Skip this if you don’t care about things related to the story only through my personal experiences and read the following post about my early thoughts on the show

So this is the literary series that defines my youth. I picked it up at 15 a day before my family moved from Stillwater back to Texas. I sat in the passenger seat next to my dad, leaving everything I knew behind, and read about Rand, Mat, Perrin and Egwene fleeing the Trollocs after Bel Tine.

For the next 19 years one of the WOT books lived on my night stand… Whether that was in Victoria, TX, a dorm room, a bunk in the barracks or cot in the field. Even after I married at 26 I was still going back to them and (im)patiently awaiting the conclusion.

I think I cried when Robert Jordan died. I’m not sure though. I remember being profoundly upset about it, and confused why the death of a man I’d never met would bother me so much.

When it was announced Brandon Sanderson would finish the series I ran out and purchased everything he’d ever published just to see whether I was thrilled I would learn how it all ends, or terrified how badly it would be ruined (Sanderson did a good job, and more important… I was introduced to new worlds to love. It was certainly different though). I was similarly thrilled and nervous about Amazon doing this show, and none of the trailers had me excited outside of the brief glimpse of an Aiel in the snow, the sun setting in Shienar, a fade on horseback, and Loial holding a book in his big hands. Oh… The trollocs looked pretty good I thought.
 
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So let’s get the major differences out of the way first… I’ve read the Eye of the World six times (maybe more), so this could become a very long list.

There will be spoilers here. I’ll avoid spoiling anything beyond episode 2 though (or the first 150 or so pages of TEOTW).

-No prologue. Bold choice.

When Peter Jackson adapted TLOR to film he added a prologue that explained the history of the ring and the second half of the third age of Middle Earth. It’s a pretty good synapsids, epic on screen, but long in a movie that was already going to stretch some audiences. Tolkien himself gave no world-wide backstory before Fellowship (although Fellowship itself is a sequel).

When HBO did GOT they accurately and painstakingly did all of George Martin’s prologue, even though it was ages in both books and show before the Others would return to the narrative.

Robert Jordan opened TEOTW with a prologue that was exceptional. It was the hook for most readers in Eye of the World. In fact, it is the juxtaposition of his amazing prologue next to the LOTR style escape from the Tow Rivers that apparently hooked most mature readers based on reviews I have read (personally the three teenage boys hooked me at the time, but today I consider the prologue Jordan in full power). The opening of the actual story in chapter one had a lot of people worried WOT would just be a Tolkien ripoff (if you have seen up to the ferry scene in the show you can see why… If you still think so after that though…)

Missed opportunity or something they will rectify later? I think, for now anyway, we lost something when Moiraine tells the four young characters one of them is the Dragon Reborn. Namely… Just how f’ed up that is (this is also a secret Moiraine hides from them a while longer in the books, with very good reason).

-The 5 (or 4 perhaps)

In the books Rand, Mat and Perrin are still boys at the beginning. Boys on the cusp of manhood. Egwene is similar, although 1-2 years younger than them (girls mature faster and all… Plus in WOT women have more respect and clout than men in most cultures).

In the show they are older. Already 20. Mat, still very much a wastrel, already feels responsible for his young sisters whereas the book Mat is busy putting a sacked badger in strategic locations on Bel Tine. Perrin is an apprentice blacksmith in the book. In the show he is married and he and his wife run village forge on their own. Rand is the lovesick puppy Tam teases him for being when he was younger in the show. Here he and Egwene have a very mature encounter in the first half hour. Other than that particular scene and clearly being older in the script itself Egwene is much the same. Nynaeve is also a few years older, but no differences really other than how she makes it back to the others in episode 2 (she was not captured by troll

So far I am neutral on the changes with the main characters. I’m getting used to the ethnic choices in casting and keeping an open mind there, so will skip that for now. I am also unconcerned (for now) with the narrative decision to have 4 characters that could be the Dragon instead of 3.

The age/maturity thing is a big change though. One that will have to be delicately managed to work I think. Two episodes in there are two major things I’m watching. Perrin was married(?) and Rand the man. The second is closely tied to one other change I’ll get to. The first though. Wow, does that seem huge. Spoiler now… Some fans of the book have complained changes have altered Perrin’s motivation. How? In the book Perrin the boy’s entire family was slain on Bel Tine. In the show it is the wife of Perrin the man that was slain. Seems like a major life change either way. Seems to me the important motivation factor is not what Perrin lost, but that it was an accident at his own hand. We get Perrin’s major character conflict over 14 books front and center with him in episode 1 and 2. Weapon or tool? Consequently, we were given an opportunity for a fantastic moment between two young men that care for each other in Shadar Logoth when Mat gives Perrin the dagger (not THE dagger). That moment was not possible between the two boys of the first book.

-Where is the Gleeman?

In the book 7 characters leave Emond’s Field together joined by an 8th later. Thom Merrilin plays a significant role in ushering Rand and Mat into manhood in the book. They are men already though, and I guess unimpressed by juggling and cheap fireworks. I miss Thom though. He is the foil to Moiraine’s leadership in the party early on in the books, and Rand himself has taken that role in the first two episodes. It’s fine so far, but long term this concerns me about Rand’s character arc.
 
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Just watched episode 3…

Better late than never on Thom Merrilin. Wish they’d cast someone with a purer voice since singing is (and doing it really well) is such a big part of his character, but I enjoyed the actor anyway.

Some other differences with the books…

All of the Bel Tine stuff is told through Rand’s eyes in the first book. The track back into town with his father on the verge of death and hunter by trollocs is great story telling there. Would have been rough to put on the screen well. Instead we get to see the things that happen in town Rand only hears about later. Better TV I think.

Watching Moiraine and Lan fight early in this is cool. They are pretty damn tough on the shadowspawn in the books. I enjoyed seeing that. They are showing us the weaves, and best I can tell everyone can see them. In the books no one would see what Moiraine is doing. They’d see fireballs and lightning, yes, but not the weaves themselves.

Whitecloaks - The Children of the Light were appropriately creepy. Still trying g to figure out how Eamon Valda manages to burn sisters at the stake though. Cutting off their hands and tying them up would not prevent a sister from weaving the One Power in the books (pain and shock might could… but perhaps not. Hands and free motion not necessary to burn Valda to a crisp or toss him violently with wind).

The Red Sisters - Liandrin Sedai also pretty creepy. We get quite a bit of her starting in book 2. Loads of stuff on the aftermath of the war in Gheadon later also. Instead the show has given us a few scenes with them straight up, and this is how they’ve introduced us to men that can channel (instead of the prologue with the Dragon and Ishamael).

We also saw the false dragon Logain early.

I discussed the differences in Perrin’s character above. Mat and his family are also different in ways that are going to alter what kind of character arc he gets. It already is. Mat’s father Abel in the books is a horse trader, yes, and that is not a vocation with a strong moral reputation in the books… Except for Abel Cauthon. He’s a stand up member of the community (nearly as well respected as Rand and Egwene’s fathers). This version of the Cauthon family probably makes Mat a more sympathetic character early on.
 
Are you sure they made them older in the show? I've heard that they were younger than 20 when the books start, but everything in the books indicates that they are 20
 
Are you sure they made them older in the show? I've heard that they were younger than 20 when the books start, but everything in the books indicates that they are 20
They may not have changed the age in their heads.

They have certainly changed the maturity.

Rand and Egwene slept together in the first episode. In the books Rand loses his v-card in the fifth one. He is incredibly intimidated by the first woman to try with him.

Perrin is married and running the forge in Emonds Field. He’s an apprentice in the books, and even more intimidated talking to girls than Rand is.

Rand and Matt are positively gleeful to meet Thom Merrilin in the books. Like two kids at their first circus. In the show they aren’t bouncing around with excitement when he sings, they don’t ask him to juggle or tell stories. Mostly they just listened to the song and went about their business.
 
Ok… I’m caught up again. Episodes 1-3 I thought were fun, but I wasn’t sure yet I was going to like this show overall.

Episodes 4-6 scratched that itch. I’m in.
 
I liked it, yes.

Not as much action as some of the others, but some of the best character building. I feel like that’s what this show has been lacking.

There’s a weird thing in this one we should discuss later maybe.
I am looking forward to this and the Expanse tonight. Been a long week with sick wife and sick kid. Ready to put them down and get my science fiction fix tonight. lol

I will let you know once I get a chance to watch it. I haven't read the books but so far am loving this.
 
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Not bad. Loved the red getting put in her place. I enjoy the character build episodes a lot.

Yeah. There’s a LOT of Aes Sedai politics in the books (although not in the first book really). I like how they’ve given us a taste of that in the show without going overboard.

I also really liked the cold open in episode 6. All of that is brand new content. We knew a lot about Siaun’s background, but actually watching it was great. I thought the guy that played her father was really good. Kind of hope we get to see him again.

I enjoyed Moiraine’s line that shut Liandrin up also. VERY interested in the details there? What kind of man would Liandrin be keeping secret? Also really enjoyed Valda getting what he had coming as well.

I knew the surprise with the secret relationship was coming, but I really liked the way they wrote it. I feel like that would have been a surprise for those new to WOT.

There have been a lot of adaptations for this series from the books. It made me nervous early, but I’ve decided I like them quite a bit. It keeps me guessing what is coming next.

Two changes off the top of my head that I think make things work so much better in this medium: Perrin’s change and Aes Sedai stoicism. In the book Perrin has a mentor they met on the plains after Shadae Logoth. A man that teaches him what it is that is going on with him. I think on TV it works much better just showing us. I loved that character, but I think it would be clunky having him explain everything on TV instead of just showing us like they are. Also in the books Aes Sedai are always described as I reactive to the world around them (and Lan even more so). It works great in the literature as your always looking for the tiny clues as to what’s going on with them. It would be boring to watch though, and would not give the actors much to work with. I don’t think we’ve lost anything about how serious these women (and Lan) are. We’ve gained a lot allowing the actors their freedom. Alana is a great example. Her kind personality shines through this way, but her attempts to learn Moiraine’s secrets are no less pointed (and continuous!).

Now for the bad… It’s public knowledge that Barney Harris left the show during filming this first season. That ending felt like good bye, and felt like they didn’t have much to work with as far as writing it into the show. He’s been one of the best performers so far I think, and Mat is a favorite of mine. Makes me sad.
 
Ok I was a little disappointed in the season finale. I just didn’t feel like they explained enough or really resolved anything. IMO The Expanse is way better but I have read most those books I. That series and haven’t read any of these. No way I see this ever being bigger then GOT. GOT had me in the first episode. Now I wouldn’t say this is Xenia terrible but a couple levels below GOT for sure. I might have enjoyed the Witcher more then this one. I think if you have the understanding of everything from the books then this show is better though. Just seems like they didn’t unload enough back ground info for me.
 
So.... I don't really know what all happened. I just watched it as well. Seemed like they tried to cram 1500 pages into that episode. (I've only read book 1 and didn't like it enough to go to book 2)
 
I’ll have to share my thoughts on the whole season/last episode later today (hopefully).

Can try to fill in some gaps for you guys if you like (let me know where the show got confusing).

Kind of two minds about this last episode.

I’d like to know now if it was Amazon that put a hard limit at 8 episodes. Because it seems like we got short changed, can see a lot of rearranging original material to streamline it (a lot I approve of). And still in middle of all of this we have the episodes 5-6 story arc that is almost entirely original. I liked those episodes, quite a bit actually. It just seems odd now, seeing the whole season, to make 25% of season 1 pure world-building that wasn’t in the books and then cramming a 1,000+ page novel into, essentially, six episodes.
 
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