Venezuela!

[Headhunter]

You understand that after saying hundreds of times to thousands of people, on tv, on CNN, on FOX, that he's gonna build a wall and Mexico is gonna pay for it, and both blow up in his face, that that will dominate every conversation on immigration? That's what he wanted. It worked. So how's the wall coming? That was the basic immigration issue from the campaign.

Good grief man we have a crisis at the boarder. Get over your Mexico is going to pay for it bullshit and look at facts. It's a tragedy for our country and the people who are being exploited by the Mexican cartels. Do you not realize that all those people coming up from central America have to pay thousands of dollars to the cartels. They basically are indentured servants when they arrive in America, if they don't make payments to the cartels their families back home are harmed. They are also forced to carry drugs across the boader.

Liberals and Democrats that support this invasion are nothing more than criminal enablers. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Are liberals so blinded by ideology they cant see what the f is happening? Apparently they are.

I dare one liberal to dispute what I've stated with contrary facts. I'm all ears.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Good grief man we have a crisis at the boarder. Get over your Mexico is going to pay for it bullshit and look at facts. It's a tragedy for our country and the people who are being exploited by the Mexican cartels. Do you not realize that all those people coming up from central America have to pay thousands of dollars to the cartels. They basically are indentured servants when they arrive in America, if they don't make payments to the cartels their families back home are harmed. They are also forced to carry drugs across the boader.

Liberals and Democrats that support this invasion are nothing more than criminal enablers. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Are liberals so blinded by ideology they cant see what the f is happening? Apparently they are.

I dare one liberal to dispute what I've stated with contrary facts. I'm all ears.

I’m not replying to your comment specifically. I just couldn’t find an appropriate place to cut in.

I have a question for those of you so concerned about the crisis of illegal immigration. What in your mind constitutes an illegal immigrant?

If a person walks from Guatemala to the US border, seeks out a border patrol officer and asks for asylum he is following the letter of our law. If the border patrol brings him to a detention center to house him until the government can investigate his case he remains in the US legally. If the detention center becomes so overcrowded it can no longer house any more detainees it releases the immigrant into the country. The immigrant has yet to break an American law. In your mind is that person an illegal immigrant?

As far as the notion that Trump’s new tariffs on Mexico are proof that Mexico will pay for his wall, I simply don’t know what to say. How can any of you be so blinded by Trump loyalty to honestly believe that? Your Trump derangement is at least as off kilter as syskatine’s, it’s just in the opposite direction.

 

[MegaPoke]

In your mind is that person an illegal immigrant?

Yes. Clearly. 90% of these people don’t show up for their hearings.

As far as the notion that Trump’s new tariffs on Mexico are proof that Mexico will pay for his wall, I simply don’t know what to say. How can any of you be so blinded by Trump loyalty to honestly believe that? Your Trump derangement is at least as off kilter as syskatine’s, it’s just in the opposite direction.

Trump himself said this is how Mexico would pay for the wall. Years ago. This isn’t our notion. It’s reading direct quotes. It has jack shit to do with loyalty.

 

[Headhunter]

I’m not replying to your comment specifically. I just couldn’t find an appropriate place to cut in.

I have a question for those of you so concerned about the crisis of illegal immigration. What in your mind constitutes an illegal immigrant?

If a person walks from Guatemala to the US border, seeks out a border patrol officer and asks for asylum he is following the letter of our law. If the border patrol brings him to a detention center to house him until the government can investigate his case he remains in the US legally. If the detention center becomes so overcrowded it can no longer house any more detainees it releases the immigrant into the country. The immigrant has yet to break an American law. In your mind is that person an illegal immigrant?

As far as the notion that Trump’s new tariffs on Mexico are proof that Mexico will pay for his wall, I simply don’t know what to say. How can any of you be so blinded by Trump loyalty to honestly believe that? Your Trump derangement is at least as off kilter as syskatine’s, it’s just in the opposite direction.

It does not matter how these people approach the boader i believe the law says they are to ask for asylum from their neighboring countries. Regardless if they pass through Mexico they have to pay the cartels and many have to be mules.

You are cool with this?

 

[Medic007]

If a person walks from Guatemala to the US border, seeks out a border patrol officer and asks for asylum he is following the letter of our law. If the border patrol brings him to a detention center to house him until the government can investigate his case he remains in the US legally. If the detention center becomes so overcrowded it can no longer house any more detainees it releases the immigrant into the country. The immigrant has yet to break an American law. In your mind is that person an illegal immigrant?

The person from Guatemala should apply for asylum in Mexico. If they didn't, they should be turned away from the US border and directed to apply for asylum in Mexico.

 

[Syskatine]

The person from Guatemala should apply for asylum in Mexico. If they didn't, they should be turned away from the US border and directed to apply for asylum in Mexico.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Yes. Clearly. 90% of these people don’t show up for their hearings.



Trump himself said this is how Mexico would pay for the wall. Years ago. This isn’t our notion. It’s reading direct quotes. It has jack shit to do with loyalty.

You might want to adjust your thinking on your first reply.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...saying-asylum-seekers-dont-show-court-1157616


As for your second response, if you believe the Mexican government will pay for Trump’s Wall via Trump’s Tariffs you are sorely mistaken. I have no doubt Trump believes it is true. The man is a pathological liar, a person who believes what he says is true because he said it. I know many of you have such adoration for the man you refuse to accept he has a single flaw. But the truth is the man is deeply flawed, and his foreign policy as regards tariffs will lead us down a horrible rabbit hole that may take decades to escape. Even many on his economic team were startled by his latest move. Caught them completely off guard. He has threatened to do this on more than one occasion and they have always talked him off the ledge. This time he “followed his gut” and stepped out there all on his own (well, except for Peter Navarro, a man who thinks there is no such thing as a bad tariff).

Trump’s pathology, by the way, is hardly unique to him. Remember when William Safire called Hillary a congenital liar and the left went berserk?

I beg of both teams to take a step back and quit supporting their team and it’s leaders without qualification. They’re messing with our lives; we’re the ones that have to live with their screw ups. For those of you that think I hate DJT, you are absolutely correct. I hate them all. I would be shouting from the rooftops if Hillary had won.

 

[Ponca Dan]

It does not matter how these people approach the boader i believe the law says they are to ask for asylum from their neighboring countries. Regardless if they pass through Mexico they have to pay the cartels and many have to be mules.

You are cool with this?

Of course I’m not cool with it. It’s deplorable. But you didn’t answer the question. Is a foreigner that presents himself to an American border patrol agent and asks for asylum in America breaking an American law? If the border patrol takes him in and later releases him into the country do you regard him as an illegal? If he has broken no American law and the American government has allowed him into the country is he here illegally in your mind? It’s a pretty straight forward question that should be pretty easy to answer. Really it just requires no more than a yes or no.

 

[wyomingosualum]

Is a foreigner that presents himself to an American border patrol agent and asks for asylum in America breaking an American law?

Maybe. Depends on the conversation. If the asylum seeker presents himself as being persecuted for his religious or political beliefs and it’s not true, then has he committed a crime?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Maybe. Depends on the conversation. If the asylum seeker presents himself as being persecuted for his religious or political beliefs and it’s not true, then has he committed a crime?

I don’t know. What does the American law say about that? What would be the punishment?

 

[wyomingosualum]

I don’t know. What does the American law say about that? What would be the punishment?

I’m not completely sure on this, but Michael Flynn could provide some insight on punishment for making a false statement to a federal agent.

 

[Medic007]

View embedded media

I wonder what large country is between Guatemala and the US...

I know you and logic don't mix, but this one is so easy even a "trial lawyer" can figure it out.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I wonder what large country is between Guatemala and the US...

I know you and logic don't mix, but this one is so easy even a "trial lawyer" can figure it out.

The large country between Guatemala and the USA is immaterial to the question. A foreign national presents himself to the American border patrol and asks for asylum, The question is: if the American border patrol gathers that person into its custody, detains him and then releases him into the country do you regard that person as being in the country illegally even though the American government does not? How he got to the border is not germane to the question, it’s an attempt to skirt past an answer.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I’m not completely sure on this, but Michael Flynn could provide some insight on punishment for making a false statement to a federal agent.

Yeah, I’m not sure how it would apply to our foreign asylum-seeker either. Since neither of us is sure I think it is appropriate to discount it as an example, wouldn’t you agree?

 

[MegaPoke]

You might want to adjust your thinking on your first reply.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...saying-asylum-seekers-dont-show-court-1157616


As for your second response, if you believe the Mexican government will pay for Trump’s Wall via Trump’s Tariffs you are sorely mistaken. I have no doubt Trump believes it is true. The man is a pathological liar, a person who believes what he says is true because he said it. I know many of you have such adoration for the man you refuse to accept he has a single flaw. But the truth is the man is deeply flawed, and his foreign policy as regards tariffs will lead us down a horrible rabbit hole that may take decades to escape. Even many on his economic team were startled by his latest move. Caught them completely off guard. He has threatened to do this on more than one occasion and they have always talked him off the ledge. This time he “followed his gut” and stepped out there all on his own (well, except for Peter Navarro, a man who thinks there is no such thing as a bad tariff).

Trump’s pathology, by the way, is hardly unique to him. Remember when William Safire called Hillary a congenital liar and the left went berserk?

I beg of both teams to take a step back and quit supporting their team and it’s leaders without qualification. They’re messing with our lives; we’re the ones that have to live with their screw ups. For those of you that think I hate DJT, you are absolutely correct. I hate them all. I would be shouting from the rooftops if Hillary had won.

I’m not on a R/D team Dan and I don’t support anyone without qualification - including Trump.

He absolutely said Mexico (writ large) would pay for the wall and has included several indirect ways this could be defined. It wasn’t limited to a check from the Mexican government.

At the end of the day, illegal immigration is a scourge and a big deal to most Americans. How the wall gets paid for is not as relevant as dedicated Trump critics want it to be. It’s a tiny fraction of our bloated inefficient spending, and after no help from house republicans and constant impeachment porn from house Dems, simply getting it done somehow is a bigger deal than who pays for it up front.

By the way, if I’m on a team, YOU are also on a team. Don’t fool yourself. There are many more variations than the two teams plus a few messianic intellectuals in the middle model you prefer.

By the way, perhaps you should adjust your thinking on asylum seekers.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...sylum-seekers-have-legitimate-claims-n2536741

 

[wyomingosualum]

Yeah, I’m not sure how it would apply to our foreign asylum-seeker either. Since neither of us is sure I think it is appropriate to discount it as an example, wouldn’t you agree?

No. I think nearly all asylum seekers are scammers. Just my opinion based on the dramatic sudden surge in such applications.

 

[wyomingosualum]

I’m not on a R/D team Dan and I don’t support anyone without qualification - including Trump.

He absolutely said Mexico (writ large) would pay for the wall and has included several indirect ways this could be defined. It wasn’t limited to a check from the Mexican government.

At the end of the day, illegal immigration is a scourge and a big deal to most Americans. How the wall gets paid for is not as relevant as dedicated Trump critics want it to be. It’s a tiny fraction of our bloated inefficient spending, and after no help from house republicans and constant impeachment porn from house Dems, simply getting it done somehow is a bigger deal than who pays for it up front.

By the way, if I’m on a team, YOU are also on a team. Don’t fool yourself. There are many more variations than the two teams plus a few messianic intellectuals in the middle model you prefer.

By the way, perhaps you should adjust your thinking on asylum seekers.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...sylum-seekers-have-legitimate-claims-n2536741

91% is high. But I’m shocked it’s not higher.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I’m not on a R/D team Dan and I don’t support anyone without qualification - including Trump.

He absolutely said Mexico (writ large) would pay for the wall and has included several indirect ways this could be defined. It wasn’t limited to a check from the Mexican government.

At the end of the day, illegal immigration is a scourge and a big deal to most Americans. How the wall gets paid for is not as relevant as dedicated Trump critics want it to be. It’s a tiny fraction of our bloated inefficient spending, and after no help from house republicans and constant impeachment porn from house Dems, simply getting it done somehow is a bigger deal than who pays for it up front.

By the way, if I’m on a team, YOU are also on a team. Don’t fool yourself. There are many more variations than the two teams plus a few messianic intellectuals in the middle model you prefer.

By the way, perhaps you should adjust your thinking on asylum seekers.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katie...sylum-seekers-have-legitimate-claims-n2536741

Regarding your town hall.com link I have no doubt the vast majority of asylum seekers are bogus in their requests. The data provided by my link is about people who have been released into the country and are obeying the law by showing up for their court proceedings. They may not be eligible for asylum status, probably aren't, but as I understand it they are not breaking any American law by their actions But once again that is not germane to the question. If the American government has brought them in and subsequently released them into the country I have trouble calling them illegal immigrants. Do you?

I keep harping on this to no avail, but maybe it will eventually sink in to some people on this board: tariffs are paid by the citizens/consumers of the country enacting them.

Trump is either so dense he doesn’t understand that simple truth, or he is lying to our faces and thinking he can get away with it. Even those staunch “always Trumpsters” should not let him get away with that lie.

The fact that all politicians lie comes as no surprise to anyone. But for some strange reason people accept the lies coming from their team. Hopefully the day will come when the majority of people realize it’s “them” (politicians from both parties) vs “us” (the rest of us) not Republicans vs Democrats or Right vs Left. That’s a false depiction the politicians have used against us - with amazing success - forever.

How can we have liberty if we keep believing politicians are out to protect us? I absolutely belong to a team. Let’s call it Team Liberty.

 

[MegaPoke]

I absolutely belong to a team. Let’s call it Team Liberty.

Welcome aboard. I’m team Constitution. 90% of the time, you and I are the same team. You shouldn’t limit your definitions of team to Trump and his tariffs.

 

[Headhunter]

Of course I’m not cool with it. It’s deplorable. But you didn’t answer the question. Is a foreigner that presents himself to an American border patrol agent and asks for asylum in America breaking an American law? If the border patrol takes him in and later releases him into the country do you regard him as an illegal? If he has broken no American law and the American government has allowed him into the country is he here illegally in your mind? It’s a pretty straight forward question that should be pretty easy to answer. Really it just requires no more than a yes or no.

I don't have a problem with asylum seekers. They are not criminals until they do not show up for their hearing then they are criminals. Anyone who crosses without permission and doesn't ask for asylum is a criminal.

 

[MegaPoke]

 

[Ponca Dan]

View embedded media

dc_draino is passing seriously flawed information. Mexico became America’s largest trading partner in 2018, about half of its exports are products that are used by US manufacturers. 5% ratcheting up to 25% this Fall will be very harmful to our economy. dc_draino is fake news.

 

[MegaPoke]

dc_draino is passing seriously flawed information. Mexico became America’s largest trading partner in 2018, about half of its exports are products that are used by US manufacturers. 5% ratcheting up to 25% this Fall will be very harmful to our economy. dc_draino is fake news.

I believe that part was obvious hyperbole. What about the cost of illegal aliens?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Welcome aboard. I’m team Constitution. 90% of the time, you and I are the same team. You shouldn’t limit your definitions of team to Trump and his tariffs.

Believe me I don’t want to limit the Republican Party as Trump’s party. Unfortunately that’s what has happened to the GOP. Look at the reaction to Justin Amash.

 

[MegaPoke]

Believe me I don’t want to limit the Republican Party as Trump’s party. Unfortunately that’s what has happened to the GOP. Look at the reaction to Justin Amash.

Amash is a fraud. He is owned by China and has no problem with the police state tactics used against Trump. Probably not the best case to cite. He’s no libertarian.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I believe that part was obvious hyperbole. What about the cost of illegal aliens?

It may be hyperbole, but it is a blatant attempt to minimize the negative consequences, it provides a false narrative on which the unthinking pro-Trumpsters want to hang their hats. It is wrong in every way for him to make fun of tariffs on avocados as if that’s all the new tariffs are.

I have given my “solution” to the immigration crisis many times on this board: quit giving them free (read taxpayer supplied) stuff and many if not most of them will stay home.

 

[Medic007]

The large country between Guatemala and the USA is immaterial to the question. A foreign national presents himself to the American border patrol and asks for asylum, The question is: if the American border patrol gathers that person into its custody, detains him and then releases him into the country do you regard that person as being in the country illegally even though the American government does not? How he got to the border is not germane to the question, it’s an attempt to skirt past an answer.

How can the large country be immaterial when the asylum seeker had to travel a minimum of 1,125 miles through it? As I posted, clearly I might add, if the asylum seeker did not seek asylum during their trek across a minimum of 1,125 miles of Mexico, turn them away and point them toward the closest place in Mexico to claim asylum. Why does the US need to foot the bill for asylum seekers from Guatemala?

 

[BAPoke]

I keep harping on this to no avail, but maybe it will eventually sink in to some people on this board: tariffs are paid by the citizens/consumers of the country enacting them.

Hey Dan, who pays when China steals intellectual property, reverse engineers American made products, then sells their "new" products ar predatory prices subsidized by the Chinese government?

Who pays for that?

Your pollyanna tariff arguement holds water with two honest brokers...sorta, but China is a thief and an adversary using economic bullets instead of real bullets.

Should we just lay back and let the rape happen while we watch our manufacturing infrastructure's destruction until there's nothing left and we are vassel state to the Chicoms?

 

[MegaPoke]

It may be hyperbole, but it is a blatant attempt to minimize the negative consequences, it provides a false narrative on which the unthinking pro-Trumpsters want to hang their hats. It is wrong in every way for him to make fun of tariffs on avocados as if that’s all the new tariffs are.

I have given my “solution” to the immigration crisis many times on this board: quit giving them free (read taxpayer supplied) stuff and many if not most of them will stay home.

Your solution is (as most libertarian things are) perfectly ideal in theory. But you act as if legislating free stuff away is any easier or more possible than building a wall. Billions are invested in their votes and slave labor. Good luck with that. I would sign your petition

 

[CBradSmith]

I keep harping on this to no avail, but maybe it will eventually sink in to some people on this board: tariffs are paid by the citizens/consumers of the country enacting them.

You keep saying this with no nod to substitute goods and services or substitute sites for sourcing.

You seem to imply that the entire tariff is absorbed by the American consumer, which ignores the aforementioned.

 

[CBradSmith]

Hey Dan, who pays when China steals intellectual property, reverse engineers American made products, then sells their "new" products ar predatory prices subsidized by the Chinese government?

Who pays for that?

Your pollyanna tariff arguement holds water with two honest brokers...sorta, but China is a thief and an adversary using economic bullets instead of real bullets.

Should we just lay back and let the rape happen while we watch our manufacturing infrastructure's destruction until there's nothing left and we are vassel state to the Chicoms?

Allowing nation states to go on stealing intellectual rights and Tech is a path to ruin.

 

[CBradSmith]

How can the large country be immaterial when the asylum seeker had to travel a minimum of 1,125 miles through it? As I posted, clearly I might add, if the asylum seeker did not seek asylum during their trek across a minimum of 1,125 miles of Mexico, turn them away and point them toward the closest place in Mexico to claim asylum. Why does the US need to foot the bill for asylum seekers from Guatemala?

If Im not mistaken, Dan hasn't cited actual law, but goes on to say that Mexico is immaterial. GTFOOH

 

[Ponca Dan]

How can the large country be immaterial when the asylum seeker had to travel a minimum of 1,125 miles through it? As I posted, clearly I might add, if the asylum seeker did not seek asylum during their trek across a minimum of 1,125 miles of Mexico, turn them away and point them toward the closest place in Mexico to claim asylum. Why does the US need to foot the bill for asylum seekers from Guatemala?

I don’t disagree with you at all. But you are still evading answering the question. Regardless of where they are from, or what country they crossed to get to our border, or what the intermediate country’s government does or does not do, once the immigrant appears before an American border agent, declares for asylum and is taken in by the border patrol and becomes a ward of the US government and is released into the country with the admonition that he appear before a court (which he does about 90% of the time according to the government’s own reporting) do you regard him as an illegal immigrant? You’re hop scotching around answering the question, which is unlike you.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Your solution is (as most libertarian things are) perfectly ideal in theory. But you act as if legislating free stuff away is any easier or more possible than building a wall. Billions are invested in their votes and slave labor. Good luck with that. I would sign your petition

You misunderstand if you think I am saying taking away the free stuff would be easy. It would run into as many obstacles as Trump’s Wall is facing. But IMO that is the only solution that would stem the tide. Keeping the incentive to come here in place but creating obstacles in getting here strikes me as plain stupid. A wall would not be a long term solution. Eventually the wall will cease to be effective (if it would even be effective in the short run, which I seriously doubt).

 

[Ponca Dan]

If Im not mistaken, Dan hasn't cited actual law, but goes on to say that Mexico is immaterial. GTFOOH

Sorry, Brad, I’m not following your train of thought. I’m not citing a specific American law because I don’t know what the law specifically says.

My point is Mexico is immaterial once an immigrant arrives at our border and is taken in by our government. At that point what Mexico did or didn’t do is immaterial. Our government welcomed the immigrant, housed and fed him and eventually released him into the general public. All I’m asking you is to say yes or no whether that immigrant is illegal. It shouldn't be hard to answer, but for some strange reason you and others are tap dancing around. I am saying such an immigrant is not illegal. What do you say?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Hey Dan, who pays when China steals intellectual property, reverse engineers American made products, then sells their "new" products ar predatory prices subsidized by the Chinese government?

Who pays for that?

Your pollyanna tariff arguement holds water with two honest brokers...sorta, but China is a thief and an adversary using economic bullets instead of real bullets.

Should we just lay back and let the rape happen while we watch our manufacturing infrastructure's destruction until there's nothing left and we are vassel state to the Chicoms?

This requires a reply so long it would fill a book. The Chinese government created a situation where American companies, if they wanted access to Chinese consumers and Chinese labor, had to agree to turn over their tech to Chinese companies. Of their own free will, and with complete knowledge of what the Chinese government was doing, those American companies were willing to take a bite out of that apple. Now they’re crying to the US government to save them from their own folly. Sorry, but I’m not buying.

Tariffs are the exact wrong response. Tariffs only add to the taxes American consumers have to pay. It’s like Trump thinks he’ll punish China by making Americans pay twice! It’s pigheaded nonsense, mercantilism at its worst.

 

[Medic007]

I don’t disagree with you at all. But you are still evading answering the question. Regardless of where they are from, or what country they crossed to get to our border, or what the intermediate country’s government does or does not do, once the immigrant appears before an American border agent, declares for asylum and is taken in by the border patrol and becomes a ward of the US government and is released into the country with the admonition that he appear before a court (which he does about 90% of the time according to the government’s own reporting) do you regard him as an illegal immigrant? You’re hop scotching around answering the question, which is unlike you.

Geezus Dan, I never posted or implied in a post that someone who claimed asylum in the US and was released into the country for any reason, including overcrowding, was an illegal immigrant. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Geezus Dan, I never posted or implied in a post that someone who claimed asylum in the US and was released into the country for any reason, including overcrowding, was an illegal immigrant. Maybe you have me confused with someone else?

That wasn’t so hard, was it? A simple “no, they’re not illegal” in the beginning would have sufficed!

 

[Medic007]

That wasn’t so hard, was it? A simple “no, they’re not illegal” in the beginning would have sufficed!

Uhhhhh, again, you have me mistaken for someone else. Maybe you should start at the top of this page and read the first two posts as a refresher on the topic...

 

[Ponca Dan]

Uhhhhh, again, you have me mistaken for someone else. Maybe you should start at the top of this page and read the first two posts as a refresher on the topic...

No, that’s not necessary. I didn’t enter into the conversation until very late, and my question was basically looking for a straight forward yes or no. It wasn’t until just now that you got around to actually answering the question. And even then you couched your answer in a passive/indirect manner. At first you hemmed and hawed and sought out a technicality (traveling through Mexico). To be honest that surprised me. I figured I would be met with a chorus of “no’s.” Which is the only reasonable answer one could give. Instead it was like pulling teeth. Oh, well.