Two things that keep the poor down
- Thread starter HighStickHarry
- Start date
Got to read your post before you removed it. Good post. No political correctness. I think you could add the democratic party as a culprit as well.
HSH, don't start that shit now. Since when has anyone censored theirselves?
As my old dad said, "Poor folks have poor folks ways."
1. Education
2. Parenting.
"welfare" has rescued more people from desperate povery than conservatives admit. You never hear about "welfare" successes - only the abuses. A ton of very successful people received government help in their younger years, and we're all better off for it.
As my old dad said, "Poor folks have poor folks ways."
1. Education
2. Parenting.
"welfare" has rescued more people from desperate povery than conservatives admit. You never hear about "welfare" successes - only the abuses. A ton of very successful people received government help in their younger years, and we're all better off for it.
Gotta be honest, I agree. I'm all for helping the poor, just not the poor who don't want to help themselves. I have no problem with reduced utilities, reduced school lunches, food cards or whatever for people who put in a solid week's work but still live pay check to pay check because they don't earn enough. The lazy ass abusers need to be cut off.
Drugs, drugs, and drugs.
The majority of the "poor" here (only country in the world where the "poor" have IPhones and are obese) are "poor" due to drug usage.
The majority of the "poor" here (only country in the world where the "poor" have IPhones and are obese) are "poor" due to drug usage.
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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It's not popular with the right, but proper early childhood education would cure a lot of ills.
A kid starting grade school way behind has very little chance of ever catching up.
Also, watch A Place at the Table. You might start rethinking all of the "lazy" banter. It's hard to be energized when you are starving.
A kid starting grade school way behind has very little chance of ever catching up.
Also, watch A Place at the Table. You might start rethinking all of the "lazy" banter. It's hard to be energized when you are starving.
Every time I work with or around poverty, the problem is rarely the government -- it's poor decision making and lack of capital. People that trumpet all the opportunity out there just don't really get how damned hard it is for poor people to get off the ground financially. Throw a kid in the picture and it's almost impossible. Now throw in four. It ends up with an economic existence where a flat tire can be an economic catastrophe and that truly grinds someone down over time.
Just teaching children basic critical thinking, discipline and self esteem is the real long term solution to me. I think old fashioned, tax and spend government, far more than we're spending now but much more effective, is the way to go. Take deprived kids away from awful parents and raise them with talented, squared away caregivers/de facto parents. It's an expensive proposition and I don't like it but I really haven't heard a better idea. Churches and private enterprise aren't getting it done.
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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I have some:
http://mic.com/articles/122607/arizona-drug-tested-welfare-recipients-here-are-the-shocking-results
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/maines-welfare-drug-tests_55ce1b56e4b0ab468d9d266f
See who really benefits:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/judysto...testing-walker-scott-and-political-pandering/
That info is straight bullshit.
I work on the front lines with "poor" people everyday. Unless they tested those urine samples for specific gravity (highly unlikely), then likely those people poured water in the cup for the piss test. Most of the "poor" have issues with alcohol, cocaine or narcotics. At the program I work at where we help these folk get back on their feet by "rescuing" them from the streets or shelter and putting them up in a very nice supportive housing facility, 100% of them who commit to the program get back on their feet once they put the drugs behind. The ones who don't invariably get kicked out of the place for repeatedly breaking the rules and continuing their drug usage.
I work with government types daily. Most are completely clueless morons who are nothing more than enablers to the behaviors that keep the "poor" poor.
I work on the front lines with "poor" people everyday. Unless they tested those urine samples for specific gravity (highly unlikely), then likely those people poured water in the cup for the piss test. Most of the "poor" have issues with alcohol, cocaine or narcotics. At the program I work at where we help these folk get back on their feet by "rescuing" them from the streets or shelter and putting them up in a very nice supportive housing facility, 100% of them who commit to the program get back on their feet once they put the drugs behind. The ones who don't invariably get kicked out of the place for repeatedly breaking the rules and continuing their drug usage.
I work with government types daily. Most are completely clueless morons who are nothing more than enablers to the behaviors that keep the "poor" poor.
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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poor people doing coke now I know you are lying. If you had said ice or crack or meth maybe I would have bought what you are selling. Only the rich do coke and high end weed on a daily basis. This is fact. The poors are smoking bath tub meth and dirty mexican ganga.
What keeps the poor down is their parents for the most part. You only know what you are taught and high schools for the most part aren't teaching financial classes so unless your parents teach you about how to handle the money properly you will repeat the pattern.
What keeps the poor down is their parents for the most part. You only know what you are taught and high schools for the most part aren't teaching financial classes so unless your parents teach you about how to handle the money properly you will repeat the pattern.
Ah hell... read this thread and told myself not to post... I have bad self control.. I am going to get SLAMMED for saying this but....
There is an issue being discussed a lot in America about the creation of two large class populaces, wealthy and poor, and a marginalized shrinking middle-class. This in the inevitable result of a free market capitalist society. The wealthy congregate with other wealthy people, they are going to get better at keeping and building wealth, they teach their kids habits of the wealthy, and pass their wealth on to other wealthy people (family, businesses, etc). The poor congregate with other poor, they do not have knowledge to pass to their kids about how to grow wealth, they have and teach habits of poor people, they become reliant on programs that, under the guise of "assistance," create reliance rather than independence, and they have no perspective on how to change their situation. The middle class grows smaller by either giving to the wealthy and giving to the poor to become poor themselves or hoarding their wealth to become wealthy. A capitalist society will always end up with all wealth and resources dedicated to the two ends of the spectrum and never spread evenly over the whole. That is just fact. You have to decide on an individual basis what you want to be and what you want to teach your children.
Let the blows begin....
There is an issue being discussed a lot in America about the creation of two large class populaces, wealthy and poor, and a marginalized shrinking middle-class. This in the inevitable result of a free market capitalist society. The wealthy congregate with other wealthy people, they are going to get better at keeping and building wealth, they teach their kids habits of the wealthy, and pass their wealth on to other wealthy people (family, businesses, etc). The poor congregate with other poor, they do not have knowledge to pass to their kids about how to grow wealth, they have and teach habits of poor people, they become reliant on programs that, under the guise of "assistance," create reliance rather than independence, and they have no perspective on how to change their situation. The middle class grows smaller by either giving to the wealthy and giving to the poor to become poor themselves or hoarding their wealth to become wealthy. A capitalist society will always end up with all wealth and resources dedicated to the two ends of the spectrum and never spread evenly over the whole. That is just fact. You have to decide on an individual basis what you want to be and what you want to teach your children.
Let the blows begin....
Agree with a lot of your second paragraph. I don't think most poor people have a basic understanding of everyday finances. In other words, don't rent a TV, don't use loan companies, don't buy a 20 ounce pop everyday at the gas station, and always save something no matter how small it seems. I also think man poor people don't believe they can ever do anything but live paycheck to paycheck so they don't see value in doing without now to have it better later.
With education I think it's more about understanding the value of it vs. access to it. College is hard and if I didn't have the support of my folks I don't know that I would have made it. I was lucky enough to have parents that helped me a lot.
You are absolutely correct. A lot of conservatives don't want to hear this but without taxes and regulations and other means to do some redistribution of wealth all of the capital will end up in the hands of the rich. It takes money to make money is true. To me it's just a matter of determining at what level you set the government intervention.
I appreciate your agreement here, but I don't think you are understanding where I am going with this. Taxes are not a way to resolve this problem. In fact taxes create barriers for people and business to be able to move wealth around. More rules is not the answer to this because there is no systematic answer for this. This will always exist and just becomes more defined as time goes on because it is an inherent flaw in humanity and economic systems run and funded by humans. This will always be. The only change that can occur is on an individual basis moving up or down the spectrum. It is a closed system that is like a lever where as rich and poor move to richer and poorer to the ends of the lever and middle moves a bit to compensate and maintain a balance on the lever. Taxes, regulations, interest rates, inflation, etc are artificial means of temporarily disguising the effects. It has always happened, will always happen.
You get no argument from me, Bville.
Many poor are fat because their diets consist of the cheapest foods possible which are often the high-carb, high-fat, high-sugar variety -- not a good combo for keeping your weight down.
A salad and steak with vegetables are expensive. Refried beans and cookies are not. Neither is spaghetti with ketchup.
Many poor are fat because their diets consist of the cheapest foods possible which are often the high-carb, high-fat, high-sugar variety -- not a good combo for keeping your weight down.
A salad and steak with vegetables are expensive. Refried beans and cookies are not. Neither is spaghetti with ketchup.
I was for the most part joking with you in the first paragraph. I figured you meant some form of cheap meth. I just found the statement poor people were doing coke funny.
I agree with a good chunk of you though. I would say the parenting and drugs (or self medicating) are the two things that keep poor people in the cycle of being poor.
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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Isolation, boredom, despair (poverty), etc.
Lots of reasons. It's way more environmental than we seem to want to admit. Poor people are in an environment to fail. That's why the ones that rise above tend to be abnormally successful because it takes something that much more special than an average kid from the burbs.
Lots of reasons. It's way more environmental than we seem to want to admit. Poor people are in an environment to fail. That's why the ones that rise above tend to be abnormally successful because it takes something that much more special than an average kid from the burbs.
It's cultural more than anything else.
Some cultures place an emphasis on education. They immgrate here and are poor but work their asses off and stress education to their kids. They tend to be successful. Other cultures place an emphasis on having the latest Air Jordans and expensive rims on their cars. Being a good father to your offspring is not expected in this subculture and we are surprised when the offspring join gangs at 14 and start shooting innocent people.
It's not rocket science.
Some cultures place an emphasis on education. They immgrate here and are poor but work their asses off and stress education to their kids. They tend to be successful. Other cultures place an emphasis on having the latest Air Jordans and expensive rims on their cars. Being a good father to your offspring is not expected in this subculture and we are surprised when the offspring join gangs at 14 and start shooting innocent people.
It's not rocket science.
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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So, they aren't poor due to drugs. They are poor because their parents were poor. Got it.
When people hold views like the following statements and hold such policy positions, it is a bit confusing to me as to why we take their claims seriously, when evaluating options of dealing with poor.
Prominent Black Political Candidate: "The disintegration of the family unit and the WELFARE STATE are enslaving African-Americans and ruining their lives."
But on the flip side, that very successful man who was himself the product of a broken home and an absent father, in his lifetime received the following benefits from the "Welfare State." These "lifeline" programs may not have entirely made up for the lack of a father, but they did help level the playing field and provide some of the opportunity for him, which he admirably took and made the most out of. (The question I ask is: Without these benefits would he have ever had a chance to continue high school, much less go on to an Ivy league school and medical school?)
Due to his "status" of being poor, Dr. Ben Carson received the following benefits from the "Welfare State:"
1. Lived with his mother in govt subsidized housing so they could have a decent place to live.
2. Received food stamps so he would not go hungry.
3. Received (as part of the family) welfare benefits to pay for certain necessities.
4. Was provided health care through Medicaid.
5. Given a free education in public schools.
6. Was provided eye exams and free eyeglasses from a govt program.
7. Received govt subsidized loans and grants for college.
8. Received significant grants for med school from US Public Health Services (US Govt).
Yet, according to his own words, all that govt help he received (of which thankfully he took full advantage through his own initiative), it is those very things that are keeping others from succeeding and holding them back.
This is right up there (in terms cognitive dissonance) with Craig T. Nelson's famous diatribe:
Do these people not understand that their very words and the reality of their situations completely undercut their positions?
Prominent Black Political Candidate: "The disintegration of the family unit and the WELFARE STATE are enslaving African-Americans and ruining their lives."
But on the flip side, that very successful man who was himself the product of a broken home and an absent father, in his lifetime received the following benefits from the "Welfare State." These "lifeline" programs may not have entirely made up for the lack of a father, but they did help level the playing field and provide some of the opportunity for him, which he admirably took and made the most out of. (The question I ask is: Without these benefits would he have ever had a chance to continue high school, much less go on to an Ivy league school and medical school?)
Due to his "status" of being poor, Dr. Ben Carson received the following benefits from the "Welfare State:"
1. Lived with his mother in govt subsidized housing so they could have a decent place to live.
2. Received food stamps so he would not go hungry.
3. Received (as part of the family) welfare benefits to pay for certain necessities.
4. Was provided health care through Medicaid.
5. Given a free education in public schools.
6. Was provided eye exams and free eyeglasses from a govt program.
7. Received govt subsidized loans and grants for college.
8. Received significant grants for med school from US Public Health Services (US Govt).
Yet, according to his own words, all that govt help he received (of which thankfully he took full advantage through his own initiative), it is those very things that are keeping others from succeeding and holding them back.
This is right up there (in terms cognitive dissonance) with Craig T. Nelson's famous diatribe:
Do these people not understand that their very words and the reality of their situations completely undercut their positions?
Actually there is a lot to what you just said. Generational poverty is real and difficult to overcome.
My wife is a 4th grade teacher in a very poor school. A lot of her outside the classroom training is about this very subject and how to break that cycle.
Teaching with Poverty in Mind
Bridges out of Poverty
A Framework for Understanding Poverty
All solid books on the subject
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anon_ph7vrsh7abnty
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Devil's advocate, Hollywood: what if he feels those programs have changed for the worse? I imagine they are all slightly different than they were in his childhood.
He may also feel there are better alternatives of assistance. He has outlined exactly how some of those programs would work.
Just because something seemingly worked doesn't mean it can't work better.
Who knows, though. I'm just trying to see his side.
He may also feel there are better alternatives of assistance. He has outlined exactly how some of those programs would work.
Just because something seemingly worked doesn't mean it can't work better.
Who knows, though. I'm just trying to see his side.
Education and motivation, IMO. Damn sys for making me agree with him on that part (education). As for motivation, much of it is due to poor education, but also seeing many laws used inconsistently (rich kids get away with murder, poor kids are screwed). Much is also on lack of family support (parents that do not see the value of education passes on to kids not being motivated). Welfare and easy access provides little motivation. Look at how many refuse full time employment because they will lose benefits. Make one dollar more a month, and lose $500 in assistance. I do not have exact figures, and am too lazy...er, not motivated enough...to find them, but you do see that in reports. vicious cycle.
