Trump is wrong

[OKSTATE1]

I said he isn't unpatriotic simply because he chooses to protest. Some of the most patriotic Americans choose to protest sometimes.

And it is your opinion that he used the wrong venue, but one could argue that he has been rather successful in getting out his message.of protest by choosing the venue he chose.



Sure Trump has a right to his opinion, but he is the President. He is suppose to uphold and protect the freedoms we cherish in this country, not attack or belittle them. A President shouldn't also label some Americans as unAmerican or unpatriotic simply because they don't do what he wants or disagrees with him.



And I had a grandfather who fought in WW2 on the islands in the Pacific. He fought under the same flag and received a purple heart. My grandfather was also very active in a veterans organization and I grew up surrounded by WW2, Korea, and Vietnam veterans. I have immense respect for veterans and their contributions. But I don't believe we respect any veteran when we label those who choose to exercise their rights as unpatriotic or unAmerican.

The flag is a symbol of what we believe in as a nation. One of those beliefs is the right to protest, which is what some NFL players chose to do. They were being American when they did so, rather you agree with them or not.



No, I don't think all patriotism is faux. Forced ritual is faux patriotism though. And labeling others as unpatriotic or unAmerican is also faux patriotism.

If someone chooses to stand for the national anthem and is not forced to, that is patriotism. If someone chooses to take a knee to protest an injustice during the national anthem, that is patriotism too.

Like you, I grew up in an environment of respecting the flag and loving our country. But again, the flag is a symbol of the ideals we believe in as a country.



With all due respect, you aren't the only one who has family impacted by war and who has a deep love for this country.

A deep love for this country though doesn't mean one should attack others who engages in the rights this country seeks to uphold. How can one love this country but attack the very fabric of what this country stands for? That makes no sense.

And btw, I understand you were offended. Protest usually offends the comfortable. That is the point of protest and that is why great Americans have engaged in it throughout our history.

https://oklahomastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/spygate-and-leftists-lack-of-patriotism.72587/

 

[my_2cents]

you have to admit that its interesting that the media was strong to support the firing of Roseanne for voiceing her position and has criticized any and all (including Jimmy Kimmel) who have said anything in her defense, yet ESPN has spent multiple hours of talk-show fodder criticizing the NFL for its new 'censorship' policy. I guess we don't care if society censures one side while celebrating the other.

When you say the media, what do you mean? Is ESPN the only media?

NFL players who choose to protest have taken hits in the media. Plenty of media sources have disagreed with them. Kaepernick took numerous hits within the media.

Kaepernick paid a price for his protest. And Roseanne paid a price for her racist tweet.

I don't attribute ANYTHING Roseanne said on the show to her. Those are lines written by writers who are trying to portray a character. I would hope you recognize the difference between TV character Roseanne and the real life person.

Roseanne Barr was the executive producer of her TV show. She had input over the direction her show took.

For example, in real life, Roseanne's brother and sister are both gay. Because of this, during its first run, Roseanne pushed to introduce gay characters into the show because Roseanne Barr believed it was reality. When this occurred, conservative groups attack the show for "pushing a gay agenda."

There were other political and socioeconomic themes that the Roseanne show dealt with. And Barr was involved the whole time.

Do you object when we label Roseanne's comments as racist? How about Samantha Bee's comments as vile? Not respecting the flag during the national anthem and/or the pledge of allegiance IS unpatriotic. Why is it wrong to label it as such?

No, because Roseanne's tweet was racist. Even she recognizes that.

Regarding the flag, apparently, we fundamentally disagree regarding what "respect" for the national anthem or the pledge of allegiance means. I don't believe respect means engaging in a prescribed ritual that one is forced to do. There are numerous ways one can respect the national anthem and the pledge. One such way is to engage in peaceful protest, because, that is what the national anthem and pledge stand for. How can one disrespect something when one engages in the exact activity that thing represents?

When Jehoviah's Witnesses don't recite the pledge of allegiance and remain seated, are they being unpatriotic or disrespectful? Of course not. They are practicing their religion, and we believe in religious liberty in this nation. Another principle that the pledge and the national anthem stands for.

I have zero respect for anyone who can't even symbolically support a country while living in and enjoying the fruits of the freedoms provided by those who live (and have died) serving under that flag.

And what are the fruits of the freedoms you speak of? Free speech, freedom to assemble, freedom to protest. That flag stands for those freedoms and individuals fought for those freedoms.

Yet, you tell people to get out of this country when they choose to exercise those freedoms and enjoy the fruits? Think about it.

 

[CBradSmith]

When you say the media, what do you mean? Is ESPN the only media?

NFL players who choose to protest have taken hits in the media. Plenty of media sources have disagreed with them. Kaepernick took numerous hits within the media.

Kaepernick paid a price for his protest. And Roseanne paid a price for her racist tweet.



Roseanne Barr was the executive producer of her TV show. She had input over the direction her show took.

For example, in real life, Roseanne's brother and sister are both gay. Because of this, during its first run, Roseanne pushed to introduce gay characters into the show because Roseanne Barr believed it was reality. When this occurred, conservative groups attack the show for "pushing a gay agenda."

There were other political and socioeconomic themes that the Roseanne show dealt with. And Barr was involved the whole time.



No, because Roseanne's tweet was racist. Even she recognizes that.

Regarding the flag, apparently, we fundamentally disagree regarding what "respect" for the national anthem or the pledge of allegiance means. I don't believe respect means engaging in a prescribed ritual that one is forced to do. There are numerous ways one can respect the national anthem and the pledge. One such way is to engage in peaceful protest, because, that is what the national anthem and pledge stand for. How can one disrespect something when one engages in the exact activity that thing represents?

When Jehoviah's Witnesses don't recite the pledge of allegiance and remain seated, are they being unpatriotic or disrespectful? Of course not. They are practicing their religion, and we believe in religious liberty in this nation. Another principle that the pledge and the national anthem stands for.



And what are the fruits of the freedoms you speak of? Free speech, freedom to assemble, freedom to protest. That flag stands for those freedoms and individuals fought for those freedoms.

Yet, you tell people to get out of this country when they choose to exercise those freedoms and enjoy the fruits? Think about it.

What's your line of work My2Cents?

 

[my_2cents]

Plus like it or not 2 bits, this is a political winner for Trump and the midterms. People are sick of the pro-athletes whining about doing something like standing for the National Anthem but having no problem saddling cities with bonds for new stadiums and leaving their current team for another team for a few dollars more.

I don't know if this is a political winner for Trump or not. Yes, his position on this appeals to his base supporters, but many other Americans disagree with his position. They also disagree with his childish behavior regarding visits to the White House.

If the athletes were serious about "change" they would donate 10% of their earning to create economic zones for inner cities, provide full scholarships to college and on and on. Instead they whine about social injustice (maybe they should protest in Portland), yet not one of them can articulate exactly what those injustices are and what should be done.

They do contribute...

https://www.bet.com/news/sports/2017/11/30/nfl-players-and-owners.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mauryb...ve-pr-twist-to-colin-kaepernick/#61c7780e5740

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/9/29/...-hurricane-harvey-patrick-peterson-foundation

As for articulating the injustices, they do that often as well. But if one is intent on attacking them instead of listening to them, then yeah, one probably isn't going to hear much of anything.

 

[SMemmett]

The ones who kneel without any sort of charity donation or any real action are the worst kinds of liberals and I think are doing it for attention or because they’ll feel ostracized. That being said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

Living in a country with free speech is not built to make you comfortable or not make you angry. Get mad, tell me I shouldn’t do it, call me names, but kiss my ass if you tell me I can’t.

 

[NZ Poke]

 

[OKSTATE1]

Too fat and lazy to stand

 

[NZ Poke]

This is what happens when 85% of your diet is soy, and soy products.

 

[cableok]

This is what happens when 85% of your diet is soy, and soy products.

1st impression: zero respect for that bum. A pure “here, look at me” move.

 

[CBradSmith]

 

[davidallen]

So, where ya from?
Handing out likes, I see.
Where's David?

I am honored that you would associate such an erudite poster with me, though he seems much nicer than I am.

At this time yesterday I was driving the porcelain bus, thinking of you of course, but lacking the energy to post.

 

[CBradSmith]

I am honored that you would associate such an erudite poster with me, though he seems much nicer than I am.

At this time yesterday I was driving the porcelain bus, thinking of you of course, but lacking the energy to post.

Never heard it called that. Evokes laughter.
Otherwise, sorry to hear about your crud.

Dont sell yourself short, you are orders of magnitude better than My2Cents at this.

 

[davidallen]

Never heard it called that. Evokes laughter.
Otherwise, sorry to hear about your crud.

Dont sell yourself short, you are orders of magnitude better than My2Cents at this.

At some point I may need to go incognito... If I do, you will know it's me but I would ask that you respect the desire/necessity to separate personas.

 

[CBradSmith]

At some point I may need to go incognito... If I do, you will know it's me but I would ask that you respect the desire/necessity to separate personas.

Man of mystery.

 

[aix_xpert]

Man of mystery.

If Oregon secedes with California, he can become an International Man of Mystery.

 

[NZ Poke]

 

[tlwwake]