Trump and China

[CowboyJD]

Fake news.....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/politics/china-trump-twitter/

Not fake news.....

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/trump-tweets-china-retreats-18971

Speak amongst yourselves in light of reports from the White House that Pres. Trump agreed to honor the "One China" policy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...president-us-will-honor-one-china-policy.html

 

[poke2001]

He evolved on the issue.

 

[windriverrange]

Disappointed.....but not so much I think its worth being involved in another civil war someday. China can be hurt a lot worse through more stringent trade moves and the reality is we will continue to arm Taiwan with the military hardware they need.

I've read quite a bit about Chiang Kai Shek and he was nominally more corrupt then the communist Chinese. Am fairly certain Taiwan will be okay without a change of pace. Do have a soft spot for Taiwan now that they have outlawed the euthanasia of abandoned pets...just hope they aren't eating them.

 

[CowboyJD]

He evolved on the issue.

Lol.....good answer.

Are you disappointed he backed down during his evolution?

 

[squeak]

Lol.....good answer.

Are you disappointed he backed down during his evolution?

How did he back down?

 

[purkey]

probably a smart move....this stops the testing of China and there is way to much other stuff going on to deal with them right now. Trump might want to slow down a bit and think things out and get first things first. Until he gets his cabinet in place there's a lot of things he should wait on. He can't do it all by himself.

 

[poke2001]

Lol.....good answer.

Are you disappointed he backed down during his evolution?

I honestly don't have an opinion as I don't know how the policy can positively or negatively effect me. If I have dissapointment, it is due to him speaking quickly about something he wasn't versed on. That said, I like the fact he is willing to change course if needed.

He needs to tone it down a bit, but that's his style and it got him to where he is, so who am I to tell him to change.

 

[GunsOfFrankEaton]

I honestly don't have an opinion as I don't know how the policy can positively or negatively effect me. If I have dissapointment, it is due to him speaking quickly about something he wasn't versed on. That said, I like the fact he is willing to change course if needed.

He needs to tone it down a bit, but that's his style and it got him to where he is, so who am I to tell him to change.

Roger, that.

 

[CowboyJD]

How did he back down?

Go look at his quotes after his phone call to Taiwan's President, compare them to now and tell me with a straight face his tone and attitude towards the One China policy doesn't reflect a backing down on the subject.

I'll wait.

Then I'll laugh if you seriously try to argue that.

 

[HighStickHarry]

Did he gain something long term with this shift? Have you read Art of the deal???

 

[CowboyJD]

Did he gain something long term with this shift? Have you read Art of the deal???

I have.

The more relevant question would be did he gain anything by taking the original position he did, IMO.

I would say from a "appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak" perspective I would say no, he didn't gain something long term with this shift when it comes to China.....or liberals...when we are talking a shift over three weeks or so.

 

[AC_Exotic]

Go look at his quotes after his phone call to Taiwan's President, compare them to now and tell me with a straight face his tone and attitude towards the One China policy doesn't reflect a backing down on the subject.

I'll wait.

Then I'll laugh if you seriously try to argue that.

Exactly. We'll get a lot of this from a guy who historically speaks before he thinks.

 

[aix_xpert]

Not fake news, and it is a maturation or shift in a position. But will you also agree that the whole thing was blown WAY out of proportion. As stated earlier, unless this were to escalate significantly with China, this has about as much chance of impacting 99% of Americans as cow farts would. (Then again, Dems want to discuss and regulate those too...)

If the media is going to go nuclear every time Trump does something 'out-of-character' for the presidency (whether a mistatement, change in precendent, change in position, etc...) noone will pay attention when they try to actually report a real gaffe that matters.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

I disagree, it was a huge deal, it was a major break of US policy, no President had done that in over 35 years. The "one China" policy is the one issue that China would go to war over without hesitation. I am not a big fan of President Trump, but I am glad he talked with China's leader and reversed his earlier "thoughts"

 

[squeak]

Go look at his quotes after his phone call to Taiwan's President, compare them to now and tell me with a straight face his tone and attitude towards the One China policy doesn't reflect a backing down on the subject.

I'll wait.

Then I'll laugh if you seriously try to argue that.

I don't know about all that but it appears he questioned the policy, evaluated it, talked to both sides, decided to stick with the one China policy.

 

[aix_xpert]

I disagree, it was a huge deal, it was a major break of US policy, no President had done that in over 35 years. The "one China" policy is the one issue that China would go to war over without hesitation. I am not a big fan of President Trump, but I am glad he talked with China's leader and reversed his earlier "thoughts"

I'm sorry UK, but you have been suckered into that line of thinking. Its not even logical to think that China 'ignores' that we provide funding and weapons to Taiwan, but a phone call means WW3. I'm glad we've rectified the message, but the thought that this really mattered to anyone but a few diplomats is a farse.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

I'm sorry UK, but you have been suckered into that line of thinking. Its not even logical to think that China 'ignores' that we provide funding and weapons to Taiwan, but a phone call means WW3. I'm glad we've rectified the message, but the thought that this really mattered to anyone but a few diplomats is a farse.

I am not saying the phone call would cause China to go to war, but an official US policy shift away from the One China policy could very well. The US is in a strange position regarding Taiwan. The US no longer has a Mutual defense Treaty with Taiwan. What makes this dangerous is that any indication that the US would renew the treaty, which the US saying it does not recognize the One China policy, could very well lead China to think that might happen, would most likely lead to China invading the island to make absolutely sure . The question is, would the US come to Taiwan's aid militarily?

 

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

I'm sorry UK, but you have been suckered into that line of thinking. Its not even logical to think that China 'ignores' that we provide funding and weapons to Taiwan, but a phone call means WW3. I'm glad we've rectified the message, but the thought that this really mattered to anyone but a few diplomats is a farse.

Exactly correct, other than misspelling farce.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Exactly correct, other than misspelling farce.

We have to be careful, there are a few areas that if diplomacy is not used correctly, could really heat things up between the US and China. We do not need to provoke them on something like this, its going to be difficult enough to navigate diplomatically through the disputed island issues

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Its going to be interesting to see how far President Trump is willing to go militarily in several areas. We do not have the capability , without our allies to engage in two major conflicts simultaneously, at least not with it becoming very uncomfortable

 

[aix_xpert]

Its going to be interesting to see how far President Trump is willing to go militarily in several areas. We do not have the capability , without our allies to engage in two major conflicts simultaneously, at least not with it becoming very uncomfortable

Why do libs (sorry UK) keep thinking or even postulating that Trump's off to lead us to war with every country we don't have 100% agreement with. If you honestly look at the global environment, I'd argue that Trump lowers the conflict levels with Russia, maintains it with China (too me not much has changed in our China stance), and elevated it with certain Middle East agents (Iran primarily). So if you want to argue that he's more likely to get us involved in a war with Iran than our prior president, then I will agree with you. But our risks with China aren't any different than under prior presidents, and whether its good or not, he improves our Russia relations (as an aside, this by proxy improves our Syria role as well). I also would note that NK has mysteriously grown quiet. Having someone like Trump who 'might' respond, limits the saber rattling of these lesser powers.

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

Why do libs (sorry UK) keep thinking or even postulating that Trump's off to lead us to war with every country we don't have 100% agreement with. If you honestly look at the global environment, I'd argue that Trump lowers the conflict levels with Russia, maintains it with China (too me not much has changed in our China stance), and elevated it with certain Middle East agents (Iran primarily). So if you want to argue that he's more likely to get us involved in a war with Iran than our prior president, then I will agree with you. But our risks with China aren't any different than under prior presidents, and whether its good or not, he improves our Russia relations (as an aside, this by proxy improves our Syria role as well). I also would note that NK has mysteriously grown quiet. Having someone like Trump who 'might' respond, limits the saber rattling of these lesser powers.

First , I am not a Liberal............but, it will all depend whether President Trump and his administration are all talk or not. When high profile members of his administration say the equivalent of blockading the disputed islands, if they go through with that then that does increase our chance of a military altercation with China. His "putting Iran on notice" consisted on using President Obama's EO putting in place the next stage of sanctions , no different than what President Obama had outlined. Russia will be interesting.

 

[aix_xpert]

I am not saying the phone call would cause China to go to war, but an official US policy shift away from the One China policy could very well. The US is in a strange position regarding Taiwan. The US no longer has a Mutual defense Treaty with Taiwan. What makes this dangerous is that any indication that the US would renew the treaty, which the US saying it does not recognize the One China policy, could very well lead China to think that might happen, would most likely lead to China invading the island to make absolutely sure . The question is, would the US come to Taiwan's aid militarily?

UK, this is my issue I'm having with Dems and the media. I have no issue with a legitimate discussion about snafu's, mistakes, and things that can be done better. But the media (and yourself afterwards) took a single congradulatory phone call between a Taiwanese diplomat and Trump and turned it into a discussion into whether we are shifting our stance on the "One China" policy. So we took a minor level blunder (eh?) and immediately ratcheted the rhetoric, implications, and magnitude to an 11. And the media has done this for every statement made. An off-the-cuff comment/tweet about Ivanka's clothing line escalates to a Conflict-of-interest fight. Repeat ad nauseam.

And I recognize that Trump does some of this himself. But like Mega says, I think there is something of a ploy here. Its not really trolling, but I do believe he recognizes that if there is so much noise generated, the real signals will get lost which actually gives Trump more power (not less). Those with open minds will eventually tune out to the noise and won't be positioned to actually argue or fight the real overreaches.

 

[Rdcldad]

Fake news.....

http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/04/politics/china-trump-twitter/

Not fake news.....

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/trump-tweets-china-retreats-18971

Speak amongst yourselves in light of reports from the White House that Pres. Trump agreed to honor the "One China" policy.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...president-us-will-honor-one-china-policy.html

first thing out of the gate
trump pissed on their lawn

the chinese know this

then he tells them take our sonar you stole and shove it up your ass

he can say what he wants now

why is this so hard to see?

 

[CowboyJD]

first thing out of the gate
trump pissed on their lawn

the chinese know this

then he tells them take our sonar you stole and shove it up your ass

he can say what he wants now

why is this so hard to see?

So what he says is, "We're good China.....One China policy in full effect."

And that was his "plan" and what he gained long term?

Lol......okay. Goo plan.

 

[CowboyJD]

UK, this is my issue I'm having with Dems and the media. I have no issue with a legitimate discussion about snafu's, mistakes, and things that can be done better. But the media (and yourself afterwards) took a single congradulatory phone call between a Taiwanese diplomat and Trump and turned it into a discussion into whether we are shifting our stance on the "One China" policy. So we took a minor level blunder (eh?) and immediately ratcheted the rhetoric, implications, and magnitude to an 11. And the media has done this for every statement made. An off-the-cuff comment/tweet about Ivanka's clothing line escalates to a Conflict-of-interest fight. Repeat ad nauseam.

And I recognize that Trump does some of this himself. But like Mega says, I think there is something of a ploy here. Its not really trolling, but I do believe he recognizes that if there is so much noise generated, the real signals will get lost which actually gives Trump more power (not less). Those with open minds will eventually tune out to the noise and won't be positioned to actually argue or fight the real overreaches.

I see it as a guy that shoots his mouth off before thinking about the actual implications of what he is saying. I see it as a guy that has operated his business with a whole lot of people that were scared or not inclined to question his snafu's, mistakes, and things that can be done better because he could just fire them. I don't think there is a ploy or grand tactic at all.

Now, his every snafu, mistake, and things that can be done better ARE questioned, and he doesn't like that. This whole "fake news" is essentially his attempt to "fire" the media and others that disagee and/or report his snafus, mistakes, and things that can be done better.

He needs to learn and realize that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS AN OFF THE CUFF REMARK when you are the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world.

 

[Rdcldad]

So what he says is, "We're good China.....One China policy in full effect."

And that was his "plan" and what he gained long term?

Lol......okay. Goo plan.

against all odds he's
the president of the united states of america

let that sink in


i'm going to have a little bit of respect for what he's accomplished before i view every action of his as though it comes from a buffoon

 

[CowboyJD]

against all odds he's
the president of the united states of america

let that sink in


i'm going to have a little bit of respect for what he's accomplished before i view every action of his as though it comes from a buffoon

You've mistaken me for a #notmypresident guy.

I have respect for the office. It doesn't extent to not expressing my what I see as missteps, errors, unlawfulness, bad policy decisions, and moves towards more authoritarian government.

 

[Rdcldad]

You've mistaken me for a #notmypresident guy.

I have respect for the office. It doesn't extent to not expressing my what I see as missteps, errors, unlawfulness, bad policy decisions, and moves towards more authoritarian government.

i did not characterize you in the least
only said how i feel about the subject

 

[JimmyBob]

Exactly correct, other than misspelling farce.

It's farsi.

 

[Rdcldad]

this was our previous presidents non verbal communication with the chinese leader

i think it's well within the realm of possibility trump wanted to establish a different sense
of decorum with the chinese

 

[CowboyJD]

i did not characterize you in the least
only said how i feel about the subject

After quoting a post of mine questioning the President.

So while you didn't explicitly characterize me, the implicit suggestion that I was being disrespectful was certainly present.

 

[Rdcldad]

After quoting a post of mine questioning the President.

So while you didn't explicitly characterize me, the implicit suggestion that I was being disrespectful was certainly present.

i made no suggestion implicit or otherwise that you were disrespectful to the office

only that you fail to credit the man who was elected to it as a credible tactician

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

UK, this is my issue I'm having with Dems and the media. I have no issue with a legitimate discussion about snafu's, mistakes, and things that can be done better. But the media (and yourself afterwards) took a single congradulatory phone call between a Taiwanese diplomat and Trump and turned it into a discussion into whether we are shifting our stance on the "One China" policy. So we took a minor level blunder (eh?) and immediately ratcheted the rhetoric, implications, and magnitude to an 11. And the media has done this for every statement made. An off-the-cuff comment/tweet about Ivanka's clothing line escalates to a Conflict-of-interest fight. Repeat ad nauseam.

And I recognize that Trump does some of this himself. But like Mega says, I think there is something of a ploy here. Its not really trolling, but I do believe he recognizes that if there is so much noise generated, the real signals will get lost which actually gives Trump more power (not less). Those with open minds will eventually tune out to the noise and won't be positioned to actually argue or fight the real overreaches.

It was not just "a single congratulatory call"..........When a US president has not spoken with a leader of Taiwan in 40 years, then it is a huge deal. To us ( normal citizens), we say who cares, but to China that was a major issue It just shows what little regard or little knowledge President Trump has about the situation....either are very dangerous for a leader to have.

 

[Rdcldad]

It was not just "a single congratulatory call"..........When a US president has not spoken with a leader of Taiwan in 40 years, then it is a huge deal. To us ( normal citizens), we say who cares, but to China that was a major issue It just shows what little regard or little knowledge President Trump has about the situation....either are very dangerous for a leader to have.

why would you think trump had no knowledge of the implications of his actions?

is this what cooper anderson reported on cnn?

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

why would you think trump had no knowledge of the implications of his actions?

is this what cooper anderson reported on cnn?

Thats what I said, he either didn't understand or didn't care, both can be dangerous.........but it sounds like its straighten out now, that is all that matters............

 

[Rdcldad]

Thats what I said, he either didn't understand or didn't care, both can be dangerous.........but it sounds like its straighten out now, that is all that matters............

i agree it's straightened out now

but the starting point wasn't a bow
it was a shot across it

and that's consistent with what trump campaigned he would do

 

[squeak]

So what he says is, "We're good China.....One China policy in full effect."

And that was his "plan" and what he gained long term?

Lol......okay. Goo plan.

i agree it's straightened out now

but the starting point wasn't a bow
it was a shot across it

and that's consistent with what trump campaigned he would do

absolutely

 

[windriverrange]

UK how do you know no president in 40 years has not talked to a Taiwanese President?

 

[COWBOYintheUK]

i agree it's straightened out now

but the starting point wasn't a bow
it was a shot across it

and that's consistent with what trump campaigned he would do

There are certain things politically you just don;t do, like, go to Hiroshima and talk about how great Nuclear weapons are.........just things you do not do..........I don't think it was Trump testing the waters so much as it was the Taiwanese leader testing them.........I would bet that president Trump just thought it was them calling to say congrats, not thinking about the political fallout.......which, I can't blame him for, he is not a politician, there will be a lot of things he does against protocol