Top 5 Wrestlers

[NCcowboy]

I have been thinking about who would be included in the list of top 5 college wrestlers in OSU history. There is a great list and tough to choose 5. This is based on college accomplishments and not international success. Although John Smith is one of, if not the greatest American Wrestler of all time, he is close, l but not sure he makes this list.

1. Pat Smith
2. Yojiro Uetake
3. Alex Derringer
4. Eric Guererro
5. Mike Sheets

There are others that may be included, but didn't see them wrestle - Jimmy Jackson, Myron Roderick, Ricky Stewart. There were many others I thought were great to watch and dominating, but for a career, were just below - Kenny Monday, Chris Barnes, Chris Pendelton, Kendall Cross, Chris Owens, Alan Fried, Mark Branch, Steve Mocco, Jordon Oliver, Johnny Thompson, Johnny Hendricks, Jake Rosholt and others.

If Dean Heil is undefeated next year, where does he fit on the list of all time greats.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Hmmm...what are some of your criteria? National Championships won? Total victories? Domination of their era? Longest win streak?

Can't say I disagree much with your list. But as you mentioned, Jimmy Jackson was a 3x National Champion also. Hard not to put him up there alongside the other great ones.

 

[NCcowboy]

I made this based on who I though had the best college careers and was thinking about where Heil would fit in the list if he is undefeated next year. National championships are at the top, but there are many 2 and 3 time champions. Rosholt wrestled well at NCAA as 1,3,1,1, but the only year he won the conference was the year he finished 3 at NCAA and never had an undefeated season. So also conference championships and undefeated seasons and domination.

Maybe Jackson replies Sheets. I didn't see Jackson wrestle and don't know if he was able to wrestle as a freshman or if so, was an AA.

If Heil is undefeated, he is a 3 time champ, finishing 4th as a freshman and only one loss the final 3 years. He can be scary to watch and doesn't dominate in terms of score, but to this point, seems to find a way to win. I really don't think of him in the same category as the others., but if you look at everything he would have done, I think he would have to be considered.

 

[Sebastian]

Expand your eras....there are many three timers including some who were ineligible as freshman so they won it every year they could. Jimmy Jackson is well ahead of Sheets. Dick Hutton. Uetake. The other Japanese guy.

We need to start recruiting international wrestlers to keep up with Penn State.....oops, they're already ahead of us on that too with their on site Japanese guys. John needs to learn social media and a couple new assistants wouldn't hurt.

 

[djb914]

A lot of people say Uetake he was undefeated all 3 years (Their was only 3 years eligibility back then) you cant hold it against him not being a 4 time Champion when the rules did not allow it, I heard he won his first Olympics (He won the Olympics in 1964 and 1968) after his first NCAA season. He was before my time, but just from reading articles on him and talking to people who saw him. lots of greats in the past and more to come in the future at Ok State. Also John Smith elevated himself from very good to great his last couple of seasons, I think he lost to a Nebraska Wrestler first match of his Junior year then won 90 in a row including Totally dominating the same Nebraska wrestler in the NCAA Finals. Also Myron Roderick was supposedly rediculously good on his feet. hard to really say the school has been producing great wrestlers for what 90-100 years? And never got to see most of them.

 

[MiccoMacey]

Maybe Jackson replies Sheets. I didn't see Jackson wrestle and don't know if he was able to wrestle as a freshman or if so, was an AA.

Jimmy Jackson was pinned in his only match at the NCAA tournament his freshman year. Back then if you lost, your guy had to make it to the quarterfinals or semifinals (can't remember which round for sure, but I think it was the semifinals) for you to wrestle in the consolations. The guy who pinned Jackson was beat in the second round, so Jimmy was out of the tournament.

 

[MiccoMacey]

1) Thanks for doing this. It's always fun to remember all the great OSU wrestlers, even if ranking them is so hard.

2) It will definitely be interesting to see where Heil falls in the pecking order if he goes undefeated again and wins his third title. 27-10 as a freshman with a 4th place finish, 32-1 and a National Championship as a sophomore, 32-0 National Champion as a junior...that's a pretty impressive resume right there alone. Add another 30+ wins and another national Championship and you're looking at a really good argument for putting him in the top five.

3) Here's a link to all the NCAA tournament brackets ever. It's a great resource for this type of thing.

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/ncaa/brackets.htm

 

[Old Number Nine]

Expand your eras....there are many three timers including some who were ineligible as freshman so they won it every year they could. Jimmy Jackson is well ahead of Sheets. Dick Hutton. Uetake. The other Japanese guy.

Jackson wrestled 4 years and did not place as a frosh (0-1-1-1), Hutton 4 years (1-1-2-1). Uetake only 3 (1-1-1).

If you go simply by NCAA placings I think this is the order (from memory)
P. Smith : 1-1-1-1
Hutton : 1-1-2-1 (lost on Referees decision)
Dieringer : 3-1-1-1
J. Rosholt : 1-3-1-1 (cutting too much as So.)
Guerrero : 5-1-1-1
Branch : 1-2-2-1 (injured in final as Jr.)
Mocco : 2-1-1-2 (first two with Iowa)
Thompson : 2-1-1-3 (cutting too much as a Sr.)
Oliver : 4-1-2-1 (choked as Jr.)
Hendricks : 5-1-1-2 (choked as Sr.)
Sheets : 7-2-1-1
Stewart : 7-1-1-3 (choked as Sr.)
Scott : 8-5-2-1
Caldwell : 5-2-3-2 (first two with OU)
Lewis : 6-3-5-2
Mammen : 6-6-5-8
Dean Heil : 4-1-1-? (no jinks here)
Uetake 1-1-1 (Undefeated) (There may be others)
All the rest at 1-1-1 in three years
Jackson : 0-1-1-1
John Smith : 0-2-1-1

 

[derek_state]

Mocco went 2-1-1-2 only one title at Iowa

Let's not forget watching these other three timers

Earl McCready 1928-30
Jack VanBebber 1929-31
Conrad Caldwell 1929-31
Rex Peery 1933-35
Ross Flood 1933-35
Joe McDaniel 1937-39
Stanley Henson 1937-39
David "Buddy" Arndt 1941-42 1946
Myron Roderick 1954-56

 

[Air_Thurman]

We really calling Oliver's loss as a junior a choke job? I still have no idea how it wasn't a takedown never mind the fact it was against one of the greatest college wrestlers of all time.

 

[Wrassler17]

Jackson wrestled 4 years and did not place as a frosh (0-1-1-1), Hutton 4 years (1-1-2-1). Uetake only 3 (1-1-1).

If you go simply by NCAA placings I think this is the order (from memory)
P. Smith : 1-1-1-1
Hutton : 1-1-2-1 (lost on Referees decision)
Guerrero : 3-1-1-1
Dieringer : 3-1-1-1
J. Rosholt : 1-3-1-1 (cutting too much as So.)
Branch : 1-2-2-1 (injured in final as Jr.
Mocco : 1-1-1-2 (first two with Iowa)
Thompson : 2-1-1-3 (cutting too much as a Sr.)
Oliver : 4-1-2-1 (choked as Jr.)
Hendricks : 5-1-1-2 (choked as Sr.)
Sheets : 7-2-1-1
Stewart : 7-1-1-3 (choked as Sr.)
Scott : 8-5-2-1
Caldwell : 5-2-3-2 (first two with OU)
Lewis : 6-3-5-2
Mammen : 6-6-5-8
Dean Heil : 4-1-1-? (no jinks here)
Uetake 1-1-1 (Undefeated) (There may be others)
All the rest at 1-1-1 in three years
Jackson : 0-1-1-1
John Smith : 0-2-1-1

Great topic. Below is an article that discusses some all time greats.

https://www.win-magazine.com/2010/11/my-all-time-greatest-college-wrestlers/

 

[MiccoMacey]

We really calling Oliver's loss as a junior a choke job? I still have no idea how it wasn't a takedown never mind the fact it was against one of the greatest college wrestlers of all time.

Yeah, I agree with this. Losing to someone who is a 4x National Champ can't really be considered a choke job IMO.

 

[NCcowboy]

Jackson wrestled 4 years and did not place as a frosh (0-1-1-1), Hutton 4 years (1-1-2-1). Uetake only 3 (1-1-1).

If you go simply by NCAA placings I think this is the order (from memory)
P. Smith : 1-1-1-1
Hutton : 1-1-2-1 (lost on Referees decision)
Guerrero : 3-1-1-1
Dieringer : 3-1-1-1
J. Rosholt : 1-3-1-1 (cutting too much as So.)
Branch : 1-2-2-1 (injured in final as Jr.
Mocco : 1-1-1-2 (first two with Iowa)
Thompson : 2-1-1-3 (cutting too much as a Sr.)
Oliver : 4-1-2-1 (choked as Jr.)
Hendricks : 5-1-1-2 (choked as Sr.)
Sheets : 7-2-1-1
Stewart : 7-1-1-3 (choked as Sr.)
Scott : 8-5-2-1
Caldwell : 5-2-3-2 (first two with OU)
Lewis : 6-3-5-2
Mammen : 6-6-5-8
Dean Heil : 4-1-1-? (no jinks here)
Uetake 1-1-1 (Undefeated) (There may be others)
All the rest at 1-1-1 in three years
Jackson : 0-1-1-1
John Smith : 0-2-1-1

Guerrero finished 5 th as a freshman, which is why I had him below Derringer. I think Oliver had a bad call, but I also think he wrestled too conservative in the NCAA finals match. He beat Steiber decisively in the dual and when you keep it close, bad things can happen.

 

[Kingk0ng]

It saddens me that my favorite Cowboy hero from when I was a kid, Dwayne Keller, doesn't seem to get the credit that he deserves. Undefeated in his three years of eligibility until the NCAA finals of his senior year, losing the match after being with his wife the night before giving birth to his child. Really a shame, if he would have won that match he would be known as one of the greatest of all time being an unbeaten champion in every NCAA appearance, but that singular loss relegates him to an afterthought.

 

[NCcowboy]

If Keller was 1,1,2 and only loss was his last match, he should be in consideration.

I started wrestling in early 1980's, so don't have much perspective prior to that. In looking at the list and thinking more, it is rare to go undefeated for 3 years as most 3 time champions had a loss during one of the seasons. I believe Pat Smith had all his career losses during his freshman year. Not sure if any other in the list were undefeated for 3 years - Pretty sure Guererro lost and Derringer lost to St. John as a sophomore.

 

[chasepollard]

Can somebody just provide win %? It would be interesting to say the least...we've really been spoiled!

 

[MiccoMacey]

One more possible criteria to add...strength of competition. Perry had Howe, Monday had Carr. Who does Heil have that gives his resume that big name rival?

 

[wehweh]

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/okstate/show_leaders_pct.php?type=3

 

[Old Number Nine]

We really calling Oliver's loss as a junior a choke job? I still have no idea how it wasn't a takedown never mind the fact it was against one of the greatest college wrestlers of all time.

A Junior, returning national champion with one overtime loss in two years loses to a freshman he defeated 7 - 3 earlier in the year in a match where he takes very few shots and waits until, literally, the last second to try to score; I call that a choke. "All Time Greats" don't lose matches like that.

Obviously, Steiber was great; but was he better than Oliver? I believe that if they had both wrestled at 141 the following year, Oliver would have beaten him.

I guess I could mark it as cutting too much weight knowing that he moved up two weights the next year.

 

[wehweh]

http://www.wrestlingstats.com/okstate/show_leaders_pct.php?type=1

 

[Air_Thurman]

A Junior, returning national champion with one overtime loss in two years loses to a freshman he defeated 7 - 3 earlier in the year in a match where he takes very few shots and waits until, literally, the last second to try to score; I call that a choke. "All Time Greats" don't lose matches like that.

I guess I could mark it as cutting too much weight knowing that he moved up two weights the next year.

I agree that the loss takes him off the all-time great list. I just don't think losing to one of the greatest college wrestlers of all-time because of a bad call mean JO choked. Yeah he should have been more aggressive but I think you are downplaying how incredibly good Stieber was.

 

[Mrgrapple]

Top five career winning percentage in official program 1 Uetake 2 Keller 3 Fujita 4 Flood & Henson. Alex #7 and Pat #8. With our great history I would not dare to try to list the top 5, maybe the top 25 and you would still leave out many truely great wrestlers doing just 25.

 

[oberebo]

Been gone for the last 9 days but came back to see this and it is always entertaining. I do not believe you can go by win % only and maybe not even mainly. Uetake would be on the list for certain. If you have a 4 X champion he has to be on the list but I would not rate him #1. Over the years (since 1960) I have watched many great wrestlers. If you go by dominance his last two years I do not think there was any one more dominant than Mike Sheets. Unfair to Mike as he had to go up two weights his freshman year but still placed 7th. Pendleton was a dominant wrestler. Jimmy Johnson was dominant but this was as much to do with his size as his ability. I would not put him in the top 5. Some one mentioned Dwayne Keller and he would make my top 5 list. It is all subjective but in no certain order I would put Dick Hutton, Uetake, Mike Sheets, Dwayne Keller and Pat Smith in my top five. My favorite was Sheets and I do not believe we have ever had as dominant a wrestler attending OSU.