The Left and Children

[my_2cents]

First, I am not going to get in to details other then to say I was adopted and because of my dad fighting in WW2 and other things my childhood was not easy street, so I sympathize with children on real issues. Like food, clothing, not being abused, etc...not saying all that happened to me but I saw things.

Trump offered to legalize 1.8M illegals, Dems walked away.

Some of these children are literally kidnapped and used by illegals to get over the border. To assume these adults that pull them all along are really their parents?

They spend $34,000 a year taking care of these kids, they are fed, some have access to video games, and they have shelter. We have kids in our own country not given that financial support and no one cares. Many have no dads.

In those instances when parents and kids are separated I do not like it, but you act as if in all cases that is easygoing determine.

Trump wants a solution, Dems do not want it and want to blow up optics for the Nov election. I believe Trump was hoping all of this would bring Dems to the table to get reasonable laws passed and get Dems to the table to resolve immigration. Having and open border policy is hurting far more children then it is helping.

So, you seem to think the view of abortion comes down to a simple interpretation of adults to control their individual rights.

Similarly, let’s define inhumane treatment. Are these kids being denied access to toilets, shelter, food, clothing, and medical help? No one has said that has happened. So some define separating adults from children as inhumane even when we are not certain if the adults are the real parents.

Although what happened at the border is being defined as inhumane, I am having a hard time seeing it at a 10 level when they are being cared for, and especially when these adults put them in this position, what good parents would do that? Like the OP, where is the Fed governments responsibility to play dad in this country and for Mexico? Enabling the behavior makes it worse. As far as definition of inhumane treatment I rate it about a 2. I was adopted, I fully understand as a child what is really needed as child to prosper. It is not about having a parent, it is about being given the necessities of life and someone that decides to be a father or mother figure to you.

The federal government is giving these kids the necessities to live and to be safe and healthy. Fed government can never replace moms and dads and holy cow we ask them to make sure at the border adults are not bringing in kids that is not their own or is going to use those kids for really bad things.

So, Dems walk to the negotiating table with Reps and get immigration resolved and fixed and stop trying to make this an issue for the Nov election. Dems have over played their hand on this, it is a losing hand.

Thank you for that.

Now, a simple yes or no will do: Was Trump wrong to carry out this inhumane policy?

 

[OKSTATE1]

Thank you for that.

Now, a simple yes or no will do: Was Trump wrong to carry out this inhumane policy?

I answered it pard.

 

[my_2cents]

I believe Trump was hoping all of this would bring Dems to the table to get reasonable laws passed and get Dems to the table to resolve immigration. Having and open border policy is hurting far more children then it is helping.

I agree with this btw. But this means Trump was using children as a political bargaining chip. He was politicalizing children of immigrants (were you not complaing about Democrats doing this?).

Was Trump wrong to do this? Wasn't this a flawed political decision?

 

[my_2cents]

I answered it pard.

No you didn't. You walked all around the answer. Yes or no, was Trump wrong to carry out this inhumane policy? I say yes. What say you?

 

[OKSTATE1]

No you didn't. You walked all around the answer. Yes or no, was Trump wrong to carry out this inhumane policy? I say yes. What say you?

Ok, is abortion right or wrong, simple yes or no. I answered your question in the same context you explained abortion.

 

[my_2cents]

Ok, is abortion right or wrong, simple yes or no. I answered your question in the same context you explained abortion.

lol, back to abortion now? haha. Ok, yes, I believe it is wrong.

Now, can you do the same? Was Trump wrong to carry out this inhumane policy? Yes or no?

 

[OKSTATE1]

Yes, I believe it is wrong.

Now, can you do the same? Was Trump wrong to carry out this inhumane policy? Yes or no?

No, it was not inhumane as you title it. I fail to see the life long damage that can be done to these kids for being separated from their parents (if they are their parents) while they are being processed when they are being given food, water, shelter, medical care and acces to more then some children in our own country have. I was separated from my birth parents for life. Birth parents mean jack if they are not real parents and any parent that uses their kids to gain illegal access to this country is a POS, I fail to see how our country made that parenting decision for that child, regardless we take care of them.

Show me pictures of kids suffering from heat stroke, freezing to death, malnourished, no medical care, no toilets, no clothes, no shelter, being used in sex trafficating, child labor, kids dying,etc...that is inhumane. As is using kids as a shield to illegally gain access to this country.

Rates about a 2 on my “inhumane” scale, which means it was not inhumane.

 

[Ponca Dan]

First, I am not going to get in to details other then to say I was adopted and because of my dad fighting in WW2 and other things my childhood was not easy street, so I sympathize with children on real issues. Like food, clothing, not being abused, etc...not saying all that happened to me but I saw things and things did happen to me.

Trump offered to legalize 1.8M illegals, Dems walked away.

Some of these children are literally kidnapped and used by illegals to get over the border. To assume these adults that pull them all along are really their parents?

They spend $34,000 a year taking care of these kids, they are fed, some have access to video games, and they have shelter. We have kids in our own country not given that financial support and no one cares. Many have no dads.

In those instances when parents and kids are separated I do not like it, but you act as if in all cases that is easygoing determine.

Trump wants a solution, Dems do not want it and want to blow up optics for the Nov election. I believe Trump was hoping all of this would bring Dems to the table to get reasonable laws passed and get Dems to the table to resolve immigration. Having and open border policy is hurting far more children then it is helping.

So, you seem to think the view of abortion comes down to a simple interpretation of adults to control their individual rights.

Similarly, let’s define inhumane treatment. Are these kids being denied access to toilets, shelter, food, clothing, and medical help? No one has said that has happened. So some define separating adults from children as inhumane even when we are not certain if the adults are the real parents.

Although what happened at the border is being defined as inhumane, I am having a hard time seeing it at a 10 level when they are being cared for, and especially when these adults put them in this position, what good parents would do that? Like the OP, where is the Fed governments responsibility to play dad in this country and for Mexico? Enabling the behavior makes it worse. As far as definition of inhumane treatment I rate it about a 2. I was adopted, I fully understand as a child what is really needed as child to prosper. It is not about having a parent, it is about being given the necessities of life and someone that decides to be a father or mother figure to you.

The federal government is giving these kids the necessities to live and to be safe and healthy. Fed government can never replace moms and dads and holy cow we ask them to make sure at the border adults are not bringing in kids that is not their own or is going to use those kids for really bad things.

So, Dems walk to the negotiating table with Reps and get immigration resolved and fixed and stop trying to make this an issue for the Nov election. Dems have over played their hand on this, it is a losing hand.

Interesting comment. I believe in one post you managed to click off every single talking point the Trump administration has given us. I would address only one thing you mentioned. You mentioned all the things the children are not being denied: toilets, shelter, food, etc. But you missed the one huge thing that has been denied them: access to their parents, especially their mothers, especially the very young.

There is no doubt the Democrats have been playing politics with this issue in hopes of creating a blue wave in the mid-term elections. They are hypocrites. Let us pray they don’t get political control.

But why shouldn't they play politics? They have nothing to lose. You and I aren’t going to vote for them under any circumstances. They have no incentive to look for our approval.

From your comments I can’t tell if you agree with the separation policy or not. It appears you do. But for the sake of argument I am going to assume you are opposed to it, you find it as morally outrageous as I do.

If that’s the case, you are opposed, how do you think you will help bring an end to it by deflecting with the abortion claim and writing posts that don’t criticize the policy? Silence from the Republican/Consevative side of the aisle is interpreted as consent. The only way the administration is going to reverse itself is if it gets huge blowback from its own people.

Actually that’s the only way anything will ever get done politically. No matter which side has power they will only make changes to their policies when they get excoriated by their own base.

I hope you are opposed to this separation policy. If you are then you need to make your disapproval known far and wide. Half assed, moderate, pragmatic responses will only assure it will continue.

 

[my_2cents]

No, it was not inhumane as you title it.

Rates about a 2 on my “inhumane” scale, which means it was not inhumane.

Sorry to know you feel this way Okstate1.

 

[my_2cents]

II hope you are opposed to this separation policy.

He isn't opposed to it though. So that answers that.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Interesting comment. I believe in one post you managed to click off every single talking point the Trump administration has given us. I would address only one thing you mentioned. You mentioned all the things the children are not being denied: toilets, shelter, food, etc. But you missed the one huge thing that has been denied them: access to their parents, especially their mothers, especially the very young.

There is no doubt the Democrats have been playing politics with this issue in hopes of creating a blue wave in the mid-term elections. They are hypocrites. Let us pray they don’t get political control.

But why shouldn't they play politics? They have nothing to lose. You and I aren’t going to vote for them under any circumstances. They have no incentive to look for our approval.

From your comments I can’t tell if you agree with the separation policy or not. It appears you do. But for the sake of argument I am going to assume you are opposed to it, you find it as morally outrageous as I do.

If that’s the case, you are opposed, how do you think you will help bring an end to it by deflecting with the abortion claim and writing posts that don’t criticize the policy? Silence from the Republican/Consevative side of the aisle is interpreted as consent. The only way the administration is going to reverse itself is if it gets huge blowback from its own people.

Actually that’s the only way anything will ever get done politically. No matter which side has power they will only make changes to their policies when they get excoriated by their own base.

I hope you are opposed to this separation policy. If you are then you need to make your disapproval known far and wide. Half assed, moderate, pragmatic responses will only assure it will continue.

Oops! Never mind! I was writing when you last posted. I was wrong. You think the separation is OK. By your writing it seems you have issues from being separated from your birth parents. It surprises me you don’t feel more compassion for what these children are going through. Oh well.

 

[OKSTATE1]

Interesting comment. I believe in one post you managed to click off every single talking point the Trump administration has given us. I would address only one thing you mentioned. You mentioned all the things the children are not being denied: toilets, shelter, food, etc. But you missed the one huge thing that has been denied them: access to their parents, especially their mothers, especially the very young.

There is no doubt the Democrats have been playing politics with this issue in hopes of creating a blue wave in the mid-term elections. They are hypocrites. Let us pray they don’t get political control.

But why shouldn't they play politics? They have nothing to lose. You and I aren’t going to vote for them under any circumstances. They have no incentive to look for our approval.

From your comments I can’t tell if you agree with the separation policy or not. It appears you do. But for the sake of argument I am going to assume you are opposed to it, you find it as morally outrageous as I do.

If that’s the case, you are opposed, how do you think you will help bring an end to it by deflecting with the abortion claim and writing posts that don’t criticize the policy? Silence from the Republican/Consevative sude Of the aisle is interpreted as consent. The only way the administration is going to reverse itself is if it gets huge blowback from its own people.

Actually that’s the only way anything will ever get done politically. No matter which side has power they will only make changes to their policies is when they get excoriated by their own base.

I hope you are opposed to this separation policy. If you are then you need to make your disapproval known far and wide. Half assed, moderate, pragmatic responses will only assure it will continue.

I was not for the policy, but let's not act like this is Auschwitz as has been portrayed. I fail to see a major sin committed here, it rated about a 2, did not like it, but not the end of the world.

I am ALL for getting behind kids, how can we miss out on this opportunity to widen the discussion if the Dems want to talk about it in the terms they have? When are kids in this country going to have their #metoo movement? Maybe if kids could vote they would matter more.

That is why my talk on this is to broaden the conversation, there is so much more at stake IMO then shaming Trump. Shaming Trump is a daily goal for 45% of americans every day. Me piling on Trump IMO on this issue moves the needle very little, and if you want to politicize kids let's go for the big enchilada. Rip the band aid off and let's get real honest about how shitty the situation has become in this country.

I believe you should not mix religion and politics, for moral and religious purposes I am against abortion. Abortion will never be over turned, but what frustrates me how do we not talk about adoption as a viable option? Many people can not have kids, some US adults adopt foreign kids while mothers here abort. I really believe with education and awareness, adoption could eliminate 90% of abortions, I might be too optimistic but NO ONE sees adoption as an option, pathetically sad and morally lazy and that crosses both parties. I was adopted....I fully understand I could have been aborted, unlike many adoptees I have a good understanding of why I was adopted, in an unusual move my adoptive mother required speaking to my birth mother before adopting me, back then that was not allowed by policy by those who handled my adoption. My mom shared that conversation with me.

Want to have a conversation about "inhumane" treatment and the country acting like it has a guilty conscience about children? Will let's have the damn conversation and let's gain back real parenting, responsibility, good decision making, etc..Let's not be afraid for kids to learn life lessons when they are young and can get over it and move on and not at 30 years old living in mom's basement and being bitter and angry. Do not get me started on schools.

Religion? Not for everyone, I get it. But it has a place IMO even if you really do not believe in god, religious themes teach morality and to try to be a better person. Church communities can help enrich families and kids. Can the government bring back awareness? Probably not nor should it, but it would help if the IRS did not target religious not for profits.

I am not for the extreme religious nut cakes, but the quiet religious types that attend church for god and family, and if not for at least family. Some use to attend church even if they did not believe in god to enrich their family, we need to make attending church to be seen as a minimum as a growth opportunity and for churches to teach about god, morals, and values and not political activists. The most important time IMO to be exposed to a good church is when kids are young.

 

[OKSTATE1]

Oops! Never mind! I was writing when you last posted. I was wrong. You think the separation is OK. By your writing it seems you have issues from being separated from your birth parents. It surprises me you don’t feel more compassion for what these children are going through. Oh well.

I do not have issues, perhaps I have a perspective on this due to being adopted that some just may not be able to understand? Your real parents are those who take care of you and love you. Somehow this country actually thinks having sex with a women, impregnating a women, and having a child makes you a parent. It does not make you a parent, all you have done is procreate. Your parent is the one that provides everything you need to live, that satisfies your life sustaining needs that then allows the child to move on to development and growth, the parent is the one that teaches morals, establishes some goals, that provides encouragement, that holds you accountable, that loves you no matter how bad you screw up but is not going to be co-dependent in poor behavior. I had parents. I also came up in a church and school community that created a tremendously positive environment, and it was full of accountability and expectations.

 

[imprimis]

 

[NZ Poke]

 

[NZ Poke]