The Cost Of Trump’s Tariffs On Autos

[2012Bearcat]

What is the mistake? Are we a free people or are we not? If we are free then our government should not prevent us from trading freely with a foreign entity, business or government that uses slave labor. What should prevent us from making any such trade is our moral compass and our willingness to condemn and isolate anyone who violates our moral compass. The only reason you don't understand what I'm saying is you don't want to understand it. I condemn Israel and that is beyond the pale for you to accept, you must turn me into an enemy to be opposed at every turn.

Thanks for the clarification. Your answer is "Yes" our government should allow trade with foreign governments and businesses that use slave labor.

 

[Medic007]

I have denied nothing, Medic, beyond your absurd accusations that I said things I didn't say.

What is it you think you didn't say?

 

[Ponca Dan]

What is it you think you didn't say?

To begin I didn't say I was good with buying products made by slaves as long as the price is right.

 

[Medic007]

To begin I didn't say I was good with buying products made by slaves as long as the price is right.

Your only focus in your posts has been the price of goods...

Sure, I would support restrictions on products made from stolen intellectual property.

What about those made with Child labor?

That’s a much trickier proposition that requires a deep understanding/analysis of the reasons it is practiced.

 

[aix_xpert]

What is the mistake? Are we a free people or are we not? If we are free then our government should not prevent us from trading freely with a foreign entity, business or government that uses slave labor.

So by this logic, you are against government child labor laws, and that it should be up to the individuals to decide whether or not to support companies who employ child labor? You're also against sex trafficking laws (another form of slave labor) as well, as that should be determined by the "moral compass of the person(s) buying the (sexual) service"? Or do you want to start walking back your statements now?

 

[Ponca Dan]

So by this logic, you are against government child labor laws, and that it should be up to the individuals to decide whether or not to support companies who employ child labor? You're also against sex trafficking laws (another form of slave labor) as well, as that should be determined by the "moral compass of the person(s) buying the (sexual) service"? Or do you want to start walking back your statements now?

Let's take these one at a time. As an anarchist I am against government laws of any kind. But I don't get to live in the environment I prefer. You're concerned about child labor laws. Can you define what labor should be allowed and what should not? Is a kid mowing lawns in the heat of summer covered by such laws? If not, why not? Who gets to decide what is permitted and what is not? Government bureaucrats? I would not be in favor of child labor laws under that circumstance, any more than I favor government bureaucrats deciding which light bulbs I can buy or how much water pressure I should be allowed. That does not mean I want children to be performing work that is dangerous to them, and I would shun (and advise everyone within earshot to do the same) anyone who put his or her profit above the safety of a child. I am against government bureaucrats deciding what work a child can do and what is forbidden. Obviously, we disagree.

Sex trafficking is an animal with a different stripe. A society of free individual precludes anyone being a slave forced to perform sexual acts against his or her will. So, yes, considering the world in which I live, one with a government, the government being the entity that defends liberty, sexual slave trafficking is something a government should banish.

I hope that clarifies for you what you were looking for.

 

[aix_xpert]

Let's take these one at a time. As an anarchist I am against government laws of any kind. But I don't get to live in the environment I prefer. You're concerned about child labor laws. Can you define what labor should be allowed and what should not? Is a kid mowing lawns in the heat of summer covered by such laws? If not, why not? Who gets to decide what is permitted and what is not? Government bureaucrats? I would not be in favor of child labor laws under that circumstance, any more than I favor government bureaucrats deciding which light bulbs I can buy or how much water pressure I should be allowed. That does not mean I want children to be performing work that is dangerous to them, and I would shun (and advise everyone within earshot to do the same) anyone who put his or her profit above the safety of a child. I am against government bureaucrats deciding what work a child can do and what is forbidden. Obviously, we disagree.

Sex trafficking is an animal with a different stripe. A society of free individual precludes anyone being a slave forced to perform sexual acts against his or her will. So, yes, considering the world in which I live, one with a government, the government being the entity that defends liberty, sexual slave trafficking is something a government should banish.

I hope that clarifies for you what you were looking for.

What's the difference between a child and slave in these examples? Or are you pretending that the 11 year old in the sneaker factory in Vietnam has his own "choice" to be there?

 

[OUSOONER67]

What about this Dan? Should the US Gov't say this is wrong or should they let the Children decide?

Immigration

Labor Department says number of children it found working illegally is up 44% since the same time last year​

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna96480

 

[Ponca Dan]

What's the difference between a child and slave in these examples? Or are you pretending that the 11 year old in the sneaker factory in Vietnam has his own "choice" to be there?

You're not understanding me, whether on purpose I can't tell. I do not advocate for anyone to buy a product when they are uncomfortable with how it is made, or by whom. I wouldn't do it, and I gather neither would you. But if we are to have a society of free individuals we have to let them make their own decisions. I regret it if an 11 year old in a foreign country like Vietnam is working in a sneaker factory against his will, and I would not buy a sneaker made under those conditions. But I personally am not willing to sacrifice our freedom at the behest of government bureaucrats that may or may not be telling me the whole truth about something they have decided I must do without even asking me for my input. I have my opinion, but the problem for me is nobody asks for or cares about my opinion. I have no say in the matter beyond expressing my opinion on this message board, so there's no point in you or anyone getting verklempt about it.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

You're not understanding me, whether on purpose I can't tell. I do not advocate for anyone to buy a product when they are uncomfortable with how it is made, or by whom. I wouldn't do it, and I gather neither would you. But if we are to have a society of free individuals we have to let them make their own decisions. I regret it if an 11 year old in a foreign country like Vietnam is working in a sneaker factory against his will, and I would not buy a sneaker made under those conditions. But I personally am not willing to sacrifice our freedom at the behest of government bureaucrats that may or may not be telling me the whole truth about something they have decided I must do without even asking me for my input. I have my opinion, but the problem for me is nobody asks for or cares about my opinion. I have no say in the matter beyond expressing my opinion of this message board, so there's no point in you or anyone getting verklempt about it.

That's the thing Dan! No one "understands" you. Good luck. 🤣🖕

 

[Ponca Dan]

That's the thing Dan! No one "understands" you. Good luck. 🤣🖕

The thing is, Woody, I think most of you understand me but don't want to engage in honest conversation, so you pretend I say something I haven't said. Frankly I don't write what I write for you. I trust there is someone out there that reads what I write and considers its validity without comment, in no small part because they don't want to be attacked by the horde.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

The thing is, Woody, I think most of you understand me but don't want to engage in honest conversation, so you pretend I say something I haven't said. Frankly I don't write what I write for you. I trust there is someone out there that reads what I write and considers its validity without comment, in no small part because they don't want to be attacked by the horde.

I think those that you believe "understand" you, have deserted you Dan. Yer kinda like Gilligan on that lost island.

😁

 

[Ponca Dan]

I think those that you believe "understand" you, have deserted you Dan. Yer kinda like Gilligan on that lost island.

😁

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Could be. There is one poster on this board whose opinion matters very much to me. He rarely posts. I am sure he disagrees with me, especially about Israel. But I'm also certain he knows I make valid points that deserve consideration, and I believe he does not approve of the insulting name calling way too many of my opponents operate. The day I have lost him is the day I leave this board for good.

 

[aix_xpert]

The thing is, Woody, I think most of you understand me but don't want to engage in honest conversation, so you pretend I say something I haven't said. Frankly I don't write what I write for you. I trust there is someone out there that reads what I write and considers its validity without comment, in no small part because they don't want to be attacked by the horde.

I'm trying to understand the difference between the government Not stopping someone from buying from companies that use slave/child labor, yet you're fine with the government stopping sex trafficking. I mean, isn't that just the government interfering on personal business that they may not be "telling you the whole truth" about?

Question for you though: You are a big believer in the economy of trade, and the delegation of roles. You criticized @OUSOONER67 for his comments on having people grow their own food. Yet, you refuse to delegate governmental responsibilities and criticize others who do. What's the difference? Is my freedom not just as at risk by outsourcing my food supply to a foreign country as it is by outsourcing the defining of legal (and thus moral) boundaries to elected political professionals? Just like I don't want to grow my own food, I also don't want to review the labor practices of every company I may buy products from. So I outsource, to the government, in a trade for my money (aka tax dollars), their decision making to identify reasonable societal boundaries that companies must comply with in order to trade. So please explain your opposing dichotomy on these two topics.

 

[OUSOONER67]

Could be. There is one poster on this board whose opinion matters very much to me. He rarely posts. I am sure he disagrees with me, especially about Israel. But I'm also certain he knows I make valid points that deserve consideration, and I believe he does not approve of the insulting name calling way too many of my opponents operate. The day I have lost him is the day I leave this board for good.

I am flattered Dan but the stuff you post deserves insults. And I hope to be around quite a while longer.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Could be. There is one poster on this board whose opinion matters very much to me. He rarely posts. I am sure he disagrees with me, especially about Israel. But I'm also certain he knows I make valid points that deserve consideration, and I believe he does not approve of the insulting name calling way too many of my opponents operate. The day I have lost him is the day I leave this board for good.

Rub that genie in yer bottle. You need help with yer validity. Mohammed ain't gonna sweep you up for a "magic carpet ride" Dan. I might suggest smoggin the hookah with several prayers to that one poster who has yer back. Question is though, have you paid yer penance?

 

[Ponca Dan]

Rub that genie in yer bottle. You need help with yer validity. Mohammed ain't gonna sweep you up for a "magic carpet ride" Dan. I might suggest smoggin the hookah with several prayers to that one poster who has yer back. Question is though, have you paid yer penance?

He doesn’t have my back, Woody, he disagrees with me about Israel. But I believe he is not emotionally attached to Israel the way you are, so that he knows it’s genocide and is not particularly comfortable with it.

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

He doesn’t have my back, Woody, he disagrees with me about Israel. But I believe he is not emotionally attached to Israel the way you are, so that he knows it’s genocide and is not particularly comfortable with it.

You sure it's a "he"?

 

[Ponca Dan]

You sure it's a "he"?

Yes

 

[LAY THE WOODY]

Yes

Not a "sleepy joe" "he"?

 

[2012Bearcat]

He doesn’t have my back, Woody, he disagrees with me about Israel. But I believe he is not emotionally attached to Israel the way you are, so that he knows it’s genocide and is not particularly comfortable with it.

For someone who for months has been crying about Palestinian children being killed in the war, I find it strange you haven't mentioned anything about the Israeli children who were taken hostage and died by the bare hands of Palestinians. You defend, support and champion a people who celebrate killing children with their bare hands. First what kind of sicko does something like, what kind of sickos celebrate that and what kind of sicko supports people that commit those kind of barbaric acts? SMFH

Killed by 'bare hands': Baby hostages fate stirs anger amid fragile ceasefire

News the Bibas children were killed by their captors 'bare hands' stirred rage and grief as Israel prepared to receive six hostages Saturday.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Ponca Dan]

Not a "sleepy joe" "he"?

A very manly “he.” Someone you approve as one of your own.

 

[Ponca Dan]

For someone who for months has been crying about Palestinian children being killed in the war, I find it strange you haven't mentioned anything about the Israeli children who were taken hostage and died by the bare hands of Palestinians. You defend, support and champion a people who celebrate killing children with their bare hands. First what kind of sicko does something like, what kind of sickos celebrate that and what kind of sicko supports people that commit those kind of barbaric acts? SMFH

Killed by 'bare hands': Baby hostages fate stirs anger amid fragile ceasefire

News the Bibas children were killed by their captors 'bare hands' stirred rage and grief as Israel prepared to receive six hostages Saturday.

www.usatoday.com

I have never defended, supported or championed anyone who kills children (or adults either, for that matter) with his bare hands, nor anyone who celebrates when it happens. You have confused my condemnation of Israel for doing those things (and more) as advocacy for having it done to them. IMO it takes a real sicko for someone, israeli or Palestinian, to applaud something like that. I look forward to the day you heal your soul and quit celebrating it when Israel does it.