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Spicer suggesting state pot legalization laws to be nulled?

So having the authority but not electing to use it is still by definition authoritarianism.

Seems like you are advocating Obama style executive nullification of laws by non-enforcement. Thought you didn't want all the authority in one branch of government but have checks and balances?

Again, executive nullification IS authoritarianism because it is one branch taking authority from another.
 
Wind,

Here's an article on the topic that includes a handy chart of the rate of deaths by drug overdose for all of Europe. (As you can see, Portugal beats the hell out of most other EU and non EU countries in terms of low number of overdose deaths.)

There's plenty of countries in Europe that have death rates from drug use close to that of the US and there's literally a handful of states with drug overdoses so common it really throws the statistics off the charts. What shocked me was how high Utah landed on the list. Not at all surprised to find Oklahoma in the top (bottom?) 10 of the state's with the highest death by drug overdose.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...erning-death-rate-of-drug-overdose-in-the-us/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...anyone-dies-from-a-drug-overdose-in-portugal/

Been,

I think there's a number of factors at play, one of the counter intuitive things that happened as a result of decriminalization on the part of Portugal was that overall drug use actually decreased, especially among teens. When Portugal was debating this the more socially conservative types were claiming that as a result nearly everyone on the country would start indulging in illicit drug use and it would all spiral out of control. Clearly, the claims they made proved to be the opposite in reality.

Secondly, I think it's the type of drugs that people in the US use - much of that based on the simple reason of "access." Portugal has never really had much of a problem with "meth" and has largely avoided the "opiod" problem. When you look into the issues WV is having, and it is really, really bad there, it nearly all traces back not to "illegal" drugs, but rather is the product of "prescription" drugs. In many small towns, the only "pushers" around appear to be the town's doctors!

I can't find the article now, but I remember reading one last month that discussed that some "smallish" county in WV accounted for a larger volume of sales for opiod based prescription drugs (oxycodone, fentanyl, hydrocodone, etc.) than were sold in most, much larger states! WV accounts for 6 of the top 10 deaths by overdose of all counties in the US.

The town of Kermit,WV (Pop. 392) had a single pharmacy that received and sold some 9 Million Hydrocodone over a 2 yr period and it's not the only pharmacy in town. Based on population, that means that means some 11,500 pills per year, for every man, woman and child in that town!

But the people selling the hydrocodone and other prescription opiods into these communities in WV are pocketed profits that would be the envy of some Mexican Cartels. And why wouldn't it be? The cartels have to fight other cartels, fight the govt and pay lots of "soldiers" to keep profits flowing. The drug companies in the US not only don't have to fight anyone, the get their protection FROM the US Govt and can openly carry on their business of killing people with the blessing of the Govt.

Here's a good article from the Charleston Gazette on the subject.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-h...0m-painkillers-into-wv-amid-rise-of-overdoses

Due to the "War on Drugs" we now have some of the world's deadliest drugs on our streets, things like krokodil, flakka, nyaope, K2, bath salts and "spice." (Talk about another friggin stupid thing about how the war on drugs actually works: the DEA insists on calling "spice" - "synthetic marijuana" in an apparent effort to convince the public that "marijuana" is dangerous, even though there is nothing in spice which even resembles marijuana.) Portugal with its decriminalized approach has had virtually NONE of these drugs distributed within their country.

We're doing everything ass-backwards in this country in regard to drugs and it's killing us, both literally and figuratively. And now, from all apparent signs we're about to double down on this stupidity because there's now a few at the top of our Govt who are puritans at heart.

I guess we've got to keep those private prisons full though, now don't we Sessions? (Who just reversed the policy of the Feds stop using them due to the incredible amount of corruption tied to the private prison industry, which is another topic that all evidence points to as being a massive failure.
 
I disagree. It is the height of authoritarian.

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Not a great analysis at all.

He started off making a completely inaccurate and incorrect statement of law at the very beginning.

The rest of his analysis is Trump can't possibly be dumb enough to take a stand on mj contrary to 75% of the population. A blatant assumption for someone that has consistently shown he doesn't give a crap about what the majority thinks. He's gonna do what he thinks is best. It might not an issue of stupidity, he might just really believe marijuana is bad enough to warrant federal enforcement.

The guy has been spot on in retrospect for quite awhile.
 
Isn't there some Global group we are in that bans the legalization on weed?
 
People I know in Colorado say what is bad is that the cash generated by the MJ business can not be deposited because of federal laws. So all the criminals know large amounts of cash are stored at these businesses and every evening there is a robbery. If you like to smoke you tolerate it, but those that do not hate the new crime that has been born to rob these businesses. The ideal solution would be for the Feds and States to get on the same page, or at least allow these monies to be deposited in to federally insured accounts like any other business.
 
People I know in Colorado say what is bad is that the cash generated by the MJ business can not be deposited because of federal laws. So all the criminals know large amounts of cash are stored at these businesses and every evening there is a robbery. If you like to smoke you tolerate it, but those that do not hate the new crime that has been born to rob these businesses. The ideal solution would be for the Feds and States to get on the same page, or at least allow these monies to be deposited in to federally insured accounts like any other business.

And you know who declined to do anything about it...

This is a serious issue that would also be another potential win for Trump/Congress.
 
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People I know in Colorado say what is bad is that the cash generated by the MJ business can not be deposited because of federal laws. So all the criminals know large amounts of cash are stored at these businesses and every evening there is a robbery. If you like to smoke you tolerate it, but those that do not hate the new crime that has been born to rob these businesses. The ideal solution would be for the Feds and States to get on the same page, or at least allow these monies to be deposited in to federally insured accounts like any other business.

As a follow-up, the 2 I know both smoke. One is ok tolerating the crime, the other said they would be ok going back to the black market because they were very concerned about the increase in robberies.
 
The logical twists and contortions you go through to view every decision of Trump in a positive light is amusing.

I've been arguing for legalized marijuana as a winning GOP issue for a long time. Any backtracking on this issue is utter failure.

Below are two posts of mine on this subject from 2015 and 2014 (long before Trump was running).

A huge percentage of legal manufactured frankenfoods lining our supermarket shelves are far worse for us than Mary Jane (especially if a person vapes the Mary Jane).

Plus, mass sugar consumption (behind rising obesity) is exponentially worse for public health than marijuana -- sugar is basically poison.

Not to mention, Marijuana causes minimal drop in athletic performance (unlike alcohol) --- working out, playing basketball, or doing anything athletic while high is blast. (The Cheetos-eating marijuana stereotype is mostly a myth -- or based on people who had terrible Mexican brick weed back in the day)

I understand the legal principle of following the law, but marijuana needs to be decriminalized.

https://oklahomastate.forums.rivals...arijuana-business-new-doco.11298/#post-134610

https://oklahomastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/hillary-is-done.1924/#post-15512
 
There is a big heroin problem in Oklahoma yet we want to spend time busting black people smoking joints.
 
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Mega,

Getting back to you on earlier comment you made, Sessions opinions and background opposing pot have a lot to do with this. He is the AG and has a certain degree of independence in whether or not to interject the feds into this.

As to Bannon, I would point out one salient fact about the "politics" involved here, with the single exception of Alaska, EVERY other state with legalized recreational pot voted AGAINST Trump. Do you really believe that Bannon wouldn't be pleased to enjoy a little "payback" for that?
 
if trump starts effing up states rights on social issues on account of the religious right his presidency will die on the vine

being a casino owner i expected huge gains on legalized gambling, sports wagering and moving forward on the mary jane.

sessions activity will be well worth the watch
 
People I know in Colorado say what is bad is that the cash generated by the MJ business can not be deposited because of federal laws.

Is this accurate? Then what the heck are the owners of dispensaries doing? Surely they have to pay their employees. Do they pay them in cash? Are they all looking for ways to launder their cash so they can get it into bank accounts? I find the concept to be very difficult to believe. The feds are opting to not enforce the federal law but are opting to draw a hard line when it comes to these businesses depositing their money into bank accounts? Seems strange.
 
Is this accurate? Then what the heck are the owners of dispensaries doing? Surely they have to pay their employees. Do they pay them in cash? Are they all looking for ways to launder their cash so they can get it into bank accounts? I find the concept to be very difficult to believe. The feds are opting to not enforce the federal law but are opting to draw a hard line when it comes to these businesses depositing their money into bank accounts? Seems strange.

100% true.....surprised people do not know what is happening in Colorado I was told sometimes multiple robberies happen each day....but thought posting that most would be skeptical:

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...juana-businesses-still-cant-get-bank-accounts
 
100% true.....surprised people do not know what is happening in Colorado I was told sometimes multiple robberies happen each day....but thought posting that most would be skeptical:

http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...juana-businesses-still-cant-get-bank-accounts

Wow. Thanks for the link. That blows my mind. I had no idea this was an issue. Spicer's statement must really be freaking them out. They probably thought it was just a matter of time until the Feds got on the same page. Now, they probably think it is likely to go in the opposite direction.
 
Wow. Thanks for the link. That blows my mind. I had no idea this was an issue. Spicer's statement must really be freaking them out. They probably thought it was just a matter of time until the Feds got on the same page. Now, they probably think it is likely to go in the opposite direction.

It is crazy, I guess if you do not live there or do not know people that live there you would have no idea. Big story IMO but another story MSM is not covering. If we had that many bank robberies going on in a city, can you imagine the out cry? People running around with guns holding up these dispensaries is putting civilians at risk. "Legal"MJ has not been perfected.
 
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Mega,

Getting back to you on earlier comment you made, Sessions opinions and background opposing pot have a lot to do with this. He is the AG and has a certain degree of independence in whether or not to interject the feds into this.

As to Bannon, I would point out one salient fact about the "politics" involved here, with the single exception of Alaska, EVERY other state with legalized recreational pot voted AGAINST Trump. Do you really believe that Bannon wouldn't be pleased to enjoy a little "payback" for that?

Understand about Sessions but he still serves at the pleasure of the POTUS.
Regarding Bannon, I don't think he's stupid enough to prefer payback over EC votes. Colorado was a swing state.

I hope I'm right but can't imagine a scenario far off from decriminalizing it federally.
 
Some state banks do not want the potential issues that come with it, real or perceived.
I could see the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency telling banks under their jurisdiction to not accept checks/payments from state banks not under their jurisdiction. Which would put the MJ businesses back in the same position except their money would be in a bank v in their safes in their stores.
 
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ALL state banks carry FDIC insurance (CT allows non-retail banks to be privately insured). This wasn't always the case, but it is today.
 
I could see the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency telling banks under their jurisdiction to not accept checks/payments from state banks not under their jurisdiction. Which would put the MJ businesses back in the same position except their money would be in a bank v in their safes in their stores.
The outgoing administration pressured banks into not accepting deposits from an array of LEGAL businesses.
 
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So having the authority but not electing to use it is still by definition authoritarianism.

Seems like you are advocating Obama style executive nullification of laws by non-enforcement. Thought you didn't want all the authority in one branch of government but have checks and balances?

Again, executive nullification IS authoritarianism because it is one branch taking authority from another.

No it is not authoritarianism because it is one branch taking authority from another. No taking of authority is occurring.

The executive branch is the branch with authority for enforcing the law. Period. Full stop.

The Constitution established the upper limits of authority. Nowhere does it say that any branch HAS to exercise that authority to the maximum extent allowed. If it did:

-No cop would be allowed to issue a warning instead of an arrest or to make a bunch of dumb kids pour out the beer or toss the marijuana and telling their parents instead of taking them to jail.
-No prosecutor would be allowed to plea bargain for reduced charges or sentences.
-No law enforcement agency would be allowed to focus on "real crime" instead of spending all their time writing speeding tickets.

What you are calling "Obama style nullification" is actually setting priorities for limited resources. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to dedicate resources to marijuana interdiction in states that have legalized mj by a vote of the electorate (whom are also your jury pool in federal court, btw) when you have literally have an endless list of more serious crimes to dedicate your efforts to.
 
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Understand about Sessions but he still serves at the pleasure of the POTUS.
Regarding Bannon, I don't think he's stupid enough to prefer payback over EC votes. Colorado was a swing state.

I hope I'm right but can't imagine a scenario far off from decriminalizing it federally.

How far off?

How long does he get?

He just announced through Spicer an intent to not decriminalize it federally in favor of enforcing the present criminal law. Why would he do that if decriminalizing it federally is not far off?
 
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I've been arguing for legalized marijuana as a winning GOP issue for a long time. Any backtracking on this issue is utter failure.

Below are two posts of mine on this subject from 2015 and 2014 (long before Trump was running).

A huge percentage of legal manufactured frankenfoods lining our supermarket shelves are far worse for us than Mary Jane (especially if a person vapes the Mary Jane).

Plus, mass sugar consumption (behind rising obesity) is exponentially worse for public health than marijuana -- sugar is basically poison.

Not to mention, Marijuana causes minimal drop in athletic performance (unlike alcohol) --- working out, playing basketball, or doing anything athletic while high is blast. (The Cheetos-eating marijuana stereotype is mostly a myth -- or based on people who had terrible Mexican brick weed back in the day)

I understand the legal principle of following the law, but marijuana needs to be decriminalized.

https://oklahomastate.forums.rivals...arijuana-business-new-doco.11298/#post-134610

https://oklahomastate.forums.rivals.com/threads/hillary-is-done.1924/#post-15512

And yet you posted a video trying to explain away his very clear statement that he doesn't intend to decriminalize, but investigate and prosecute as some grand strategy.

Let's be clear here, the first words out of that guy's mouth (that Obama's EO setting investigation and prosecution of federal marijuana crimes in states that have legalized it as not suitable for pursuit and use of resources is unlawful and unConstitutional) was legally and factually DEAD WRONG.
 
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Due to the "War on Drugs" we now have some of the world's deadliest drugs on our streets, things like krokodil, flakka, nyaope, K2, bath salts and "spice." (Talk about another friggin stupid thing about how the war on drugs actually works: the DEA insists on calling "spice" - "synthetic marijuana" in an apparent effort to convince the public that "marijuana" is dangerous, even though there is nothing in spice which even resembles marijuana.)
These are great points. Synthetic marijuana refers to synthetic cannabinoids of which are still showing up in these mixtures like K2. Cathinone derivatives are much more prevalent these days though. If you want a real scare check out Benzo Fury.

Krokodil hasn't been a US problem because of the availability of other opiates. Which brings me to the scariest thing to ever hit the heroin supply, carfentanil. Pretty bad when you can by six kilos of the stuff for 2 grand and 1 microgram has the potency of 10 mg of morphine. Yes, 10,000 times more potent than morphine.
 
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Super cheap and fairly easy to get from China. Scary stuff.
The guys cutting heroin with carfentanil don't bother using equipment to measure. A total of 17 grams will be made in the US this year for veterinary and research use. A kilogram was intercepted in Vancouver last summer. 17 grams will satisfy the needs of the US for a year. A kilogram was intercepted. It's tragic how much of this shit is out there and how many will die not knowing what they are getting ready to inject. I hope it takes its time getting to OK.
 
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