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Spicer suggesting state pot legalization laws to be nulled?

Cowpoke

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Seems to be suggesting Feds may start enforcing fed laws on recreational marijuana in states that have legalized it. I never knew how that worked. I guess its actually still against the law in CO to use it recreationally, but the feds turned a blind eye if the state legalized it. Spicer seems to be suggesting they may stop doing this.

Not a pot smoker... but this is no bueno in my mind.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-marijuana-is-legal/?utm_term=.171caadd3ba9
 
They have bigger fish to fry and this should be a state issue IMO. Which means Oklahoma will be the last to legalize if it is a state issue.....unless the AG lobby can show how much tax revenue and economic development can happen by allowing MJ to be grown, sold, and taxed in Oklahoma.
 
Seems like a very quick 180 on a single issue.

I agree that this is the wrong way for a supposed liberty loving states' rights adminstration to go.

The AG is VERY, anti-mj legalization.
This angers me.
 
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Seems like a very quick 180 on a single issue.

I agree that this is the wrong way for a supposed liberty loving states' rights adminstration to go.

The AG is VERY, anti-mj legalization.


Its also confirming my suspicion that there is really little difference between this new fancy "alt right" admin, and the normal republican establishment other than tone and attitude. I'm starting to think this is all marketing. Ohhh watch us fight!

power-rangers.gif
 
This is IMHO just a harbinger of things to come.... like doubling down on the incredibly ineffective and counter-productive "War on Drugs."

I think most of you know my opinion on that one, in that it's high time (no pun intended) to stop dealing with drugs and drug addiction as a criminal justice issue and as a public health issue. There's now so much statistical information from Portugal who took that approach well over a decade now, that we can't continue to bury our heads in the sand and act like "prohibition" is the right way to combat drug addiction and drug demand.

Overdose/drug abuse death rate in the US is currently right at 15 per 100,000 population, with WV leading the nation at 35.5 deaths per 100,000 population. (Source, Center for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality Report Jan 1, 2016)

Want to compare Portugal's overdose and death rate? (after decriminalizing nearly all drugs) They are currently suffering 3 deaths per 1,000,000 population! (Source EU European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug addiction.) You do notice that the population size for the US death rate was one hundred thousand, while Portugal's is calculated based on One MILLION population right? So, while we can expect Portugal to have 3 deaths to drugs per 1 Million, we can likewise expect West Virginia to have 350 by comparison! Similarly their drug related crime is significantly lower than the US by a long shot.

How in the F*** can someone look at those statistics, based on some 14 yrs of real world results, look at how US addiction and overdose rates have risen constantly, while Portugals dropped to some of the lowest in the world and conclude that the "War on Drugs" is the "right" approach? You would have to be absolutely farking stupid to think that our way is better than Portugal's way!

Not to mention yet another stab at personal liberties, which should also be an extremely important consideration in a country which the Constitution provides numerous protections for individual liberties and rights.

The ONLY people I see that will benefit from this revival of the neo-prohibition war on drugs are those who own private prisons. I know it gets bandied about lately, but perhaps there's no subject where the application of the "Definition of Insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" is applicable.

Let me ask all of you something on a personal level: would you rather see a drug policy in this country which reduces the risk from your children drying from a drug overdose by 4,900% or keep on keeping up the "good fight" and continue the war on drugs? The former also assisting to lower crime rates in general, reduces the prison/jail population significantly, does not destroy people's lives by putting a conviction on their record which often prevents them from being gainfully employed, joining the military, getting loans, voting, etc.? Or should we continually pump billions upon billions of $'s in a losing effort, seeing both drug usage and overdose deaths continue to rise while not even making a dent in actual drug trafficking.

BTW, if you really thought that Trump and Sessions weren't likely to do this, I don't think you were paying attention (especially given Sessions record on this topic.)
 
This is IMHO just a harbinger of things to come.... like doubling down on the incredibly ineffective and counter-productive "War on Drugs."

I think most of you know my opinion on that one, in that it's high time (no pun intended) to stop dealing with drugs and drug addiction as a criminal justice issue and as a public health issue. There's now so much statistical information from Portugal who took that approach well over a decade now, that we can't continue to bury our heads in the sand and act like "prohibition" is the right way to combat drug addiction and drug demand.

Overdose/drug abuse death rate in the US is currently right at 15 per 100,000 population, with WV leading the nation at 35.5 deaths per 100,000 population. (Source, Center for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality Report Jan 1, 2016)

Want to compare Portugal's overdose and death rate? (after decriminalizing nearly all drugs) They are currently suffering 3 deaths per 1,000,000 population! (Source EU European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug addiction.) You do notice that the population size for the US death rate was one hundred thousand, while Portugal's is calculated based on One MILLION population right? So, while we can expect Portugal to have 3 deaths to drugs per 1 Million, we can likewise expect West Virginia to have 350 by comparison! Similarly their drug related crime is significantly lower than the US by a long shot.

How in the F*** can someone look at those statistics, based on some 14 yrs of real world results, look at how US addiction and overdose rates have risen constantly, while Portugals dropped to some of the lowest in the world and conclude that the "War on Drugs" is the "right" approach? You would have to be absolutely farking stupid to think that our way is better than Portugal's way!

Not to mention yet another stab at personal liberties, which should also be an extremely important consideration in a country which the Constitution provides numerous protections for individual liberties and rights.

The ONLY people I see that will benefit from this revival of the neo-prohibition war on drugs are those who own private prisons. I know it gets bandied about lately, but perhaps there's no subject where the application of the "Definition of Insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" is applicable.

Let me ask all of you something on a personal level: would you rather see a drug policy in this country which reduces the risk from your children drying from a drug overdose by 4,900% or keep on keeping up the "good fight" and continue the war on drugs? The former also assisting to lower crime rates in general, reduces the prison/jail population significantly, does not destroy people's lives by putting a conviction on their record which often prevents them from being gainfully employed, joining the military, getting loans, voting, etc.? Or should we continually pump billions upon billions of $'s in a losing effort, seeing both drug usage and overdose deaths continue to rise while not even making a dent in actual drug trafficking.

BTW, if you really thought that Trump and Sessions weren't likely to do this, I don't think you were paying attention (especially given Sessions record on this topic.)

Sessions record is not terribly relevant. This is the Trump/Bannon show and at the end of the day I can't imagine them using political capital or energy on states rights when just today they made the tranny thing a states rights issue.

That said, I'll be deeply disappointed if they do.
 
The ONLY people I see that will benefit from this revival of the neo-prohibition war on drugs are those who own private prisons.

Don't forget the cartels. This is great for them, just like prohibition was for the mafia.

Sessions record is not terribly relevant. This is the Trump/Bannon show and at the end of the day I can't imagine them using political capital or energy on states rights when just today they made the tranny thing a states rights issue.

That said, I'll be deeply disappointed if they do.

I really hope you're right but I've feared this may be coming.
 
This is IMHO just a harbinger of things to come.... like doubling down on the incredibly ineffective and counter-productive "War on Drugs."

I think most of you know my opinion on that one, in that it's high time (no pun intended) to stop dealing with drugs and drug addiction as a criminal justice issue and as a public health issue. There's now so much statistical information from Portugal who took that approach well over a decade now, that we can't continue to bury our heads in the sand and act like "prohibition" is the right way to combat drug addiction and drug demand.

Overdose/drug abuse death rate in the US is currently right at 15 per 100,000 population, with WV leading the nation at 35.5 deaths per 100,000 population. (Source, Center for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality Report Jan 1, 2016)

Want to compare Portugal's overdose and death rate? (after decriminalizing nearly all drugs) They are currently suffering 3 deaths per 1,000,000 population! (Source EU European Monitoring Centre for Drugs and Drug addiction.) You do notice that the population size for the US death rate was one hundred thousand, while Portugal's is calculated based on One MILLION population right? So, while we can expect Portugal to have 3 deaths to drugs per 1 Million, we can likewise expect West Virginia to have 350 by comparison! Similarly their drug related crime is significantly lower than the US by a long shot.

How in the F*** can someone look at those statistics, based on some 14 yrs of real world results, look at how US addiction and overdose rates have risen constantly, while Portugals dropped to some of the lowest in the world and conclude that the "War on Drugs" is the "right" approach? You would have to be absolutely farking stupid to think that our way is better than Portugal's way!

Not to mention yet another stab at personal liberties, which should also be an extremely important consideration in a country which the Constitution provides numerous protections for individual liberties and rights.

The ONLY people I see that will benefit from this revival of the neo-prohibition war on drugs are those who own private prisons. I know it gets bandied about lately, but perhaps there's no subject where the application of the "Definition of Insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" is applicable.

Let me ask all of you something on a personal level: would you rather see a drug policy in this country which reduces the risk from your children drying from a drug overdose by 4,900% or keep on keeping up the "good fight" and continue the war on drugs? The former also assisting to lower crime rates in general, reduces the prison/jail population significantly, does not destroy people's lives by putting a conviction on their record which often prevents them from being gainfully employed, joining the military, getting loans, voting, etc.? Or should we continually pump billions upon billions of $'s in a losing effort, seeing both drug usage and overdose deaths continue to rise while not even making a dent in actual drug trafficking.

BTW, if you really thought that Trump and Sessions weren't likely to do this, I don't think you were paying attention (especially given Sessions record on this topic.)
Let's add another layer of reality. Besides police groups and private prisons, the pharmaceutical and booze industries spend a ton of money fighting marijuana legalization. Strangely enough, the recipients of these lobbying efforts are generally Republicans. The efforts against legalization have nothing to do with public health and everything to do with profits.
 
Don't forget the cartels. This is great for them, just like prohibition was for the mafia.

That is deserving of its own thread. What we have done to Mexico with our drug policies is reprehensible.

Ya'll get ready. Jefferson Beauregard Sellers IV is a 1950's, uptight, southern republican that wants to drink buttermilk, eat mayonnaise-based casseroles, praise Jesus and kill marijuana. He desperately needs to take Mrs. Beauregard Sellers IV upstairs before bedtime, smoke a bowl of Jack Herra, have great sex, sleep like a baby, and wake up refreshed and ready to roll. He has always been an outspoken critic of legalization. I'm thinking they'll try to stop MA, AR and whoever else just legalized it from enacting the legislation to go forward.

Oklahoma's public opinion #'s are right there with Arkansas. We're about to get it ourself if Biff will stay out of the way.
 
That is deserving of its own thread. What we have done to Mexico with our drug policies is reprehensible.

Ya'll get ready. Jefferson Beauregard Sellers IV is a 1950's, uptight, southern republican that wants to drink buttermilk, eat mayonnaise-based casseroles, praise Jesus and kill marijuana. He desperately needs to take Mrs. Beauregard Sellers IV upstairs before bedtime, smoke a bowl of Jack Herra, have great sex, sleep like a baby, and wake up refreshed and ready to roll. He has always been an outspoken critic of legalization. I'm thinking they'll try to stop MA, AR and whoever else just legalized it from enacting the legislation to go forward.

Oklahoma's public opinion #'s are right there with Arkansas. We're about to get it ourself if Biff will stay out of the way.

War on drugs was one of Reagan's biggest mistakes.
 
It is Trump's job to enforce the laws on the books. So he's going to enforce them.

Now, go get the legislature to change the laws and let Trump sign it.
 
@hollywood

Just curious. To what do you (or those who study such things) attribute the difference in overdose statistics between Portugual and the USA?

Does it appear that the main driver has to do with profitability for drug producers/distributors? I'm thinking that they are substituting cheaper products to maximize profitability and people are not buying what they think they are buying. Or, is it more driven by young people rebelling and trying things that they would not normally experiment with if it was not against the law?
 
Been, your assuming that the statistics are true, or at least evaluated/tabulated the same as the US statistics. That is a huge discrepancy, which from a purely analytical standpoint makes it almost unbelievable.

US = .00015% /100,000
EU = .000003% / 1,000,000
 
Been, your assuming that the statistics are true, or at least evaluated/tabulated the same as the US statistics. That is a huge discrepancy, which from a purely analytical standpoint makes it almost unbelievable.

US = .00015% /100,000
EU = .000003% / 1,000,000

First off, I thought we were talking about Portugual, not the EU.

Secondly, you are saying that you don't believe the stats? I would think that it would be an easy stat to track. It is pretty black and white (as opposed to something like Global Warming which can be manipulated to argue whatever point you are wanting to make). I didn't research hollywood's claims, but he has always been level headed and fair, so I trust that he is not falling into the hysteria trap that we see from some posters on this site.

Finally, even if the numbers are exaggerated, it is pretty safe to say that there is still a huge difference between the 2 countries.
 
I think like 90% of drug enforcement money is spent on stopping Pot and only 10% is used on the other drugs. I personally don't think pot users are the problem and would like to see the government focus on Meth and Heroin users and importers. these are the drugs ruining families and peoples lives. IF this is true then very sad.

As on the legality issue. It is legal at a state level but the Feds can come bust you any time.

I guess I need to get all my money out of penny pot stocks. damn thought that was gonna be my golden ticket. I guess I will have to focus more on the stocks that deal with medical.
 
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I want Amsterdam-style pot bars in our inner cities.

Great business-owning opportunity for the folks, and a hell of a lot dangerous than alcohol. (Mellows people out, reduces violence and no hangover the next day)

Just need the proper regulatory system in place.

This could be an unbelievable winning issue for the GOP.
 
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Been,
It is about Portugal, but the source Wood cited was an EU source.

Not accusing anyone of hysteria/fabrication. Wood and I are fraternity brothers so while he likes to argue, to my knowledge he has never lied to me and usually won't get into arguments he doesn't think he is wrong in nor can't provide citations to back up his stance/assertions.

No doubt there is a disparity between the numbers, hence I pointed that out by the percentages. Your a vet, can you think of anything you do, or have seen, that would contrast so wildly?

I'm for legalizing pot BTW, the fight to eradicate pot has been so ineffective and wasteful it should bring any rational person to tears. It's empowered criminals and left a swath of society carrying criminal records that has accomplished nothing.
 
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It is Trump's job to enforce the laws on the books. So he's going to enforce them.

Now, go get the legislature to change the laws and let Trump sign it.

Complete and utter cop out.

Trump has prosecutorial and investigational discretion in focusing resources.
 
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This guy consistently has great analysis.

I think he's right here and it would explain why Trump has kept his powder dry on pot. Set himself up to wiin.

Not a great analysis at all.

He started off making a completely inaccurate and incorrect statement of law at the very beginning.

The rest of his analysis is Trump can't possibly be dumb enough to take a stand on mj contrary to 75% of the population. A blatant assumption for someone that has consistently shown he doesn't give a crap about what the majority thinks. He's gonna do what he thinks is best. It might not an issue of stupidity, he might just really believe marijuana is bad enough to warrant federal enforcement.
 
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I want Amsterdam-style pot bars in our inner cities.

Great business-owning opportunity for the folks, and a hell of a lot dangerous than alcohol. (Mellows people out, reduces violence and no hangover the next day)

Just need the proper regulatory system in place.

This could be an unbelievable winning issue for the GOP.

The logical twists and contortions you go through to view every decision of Trump in a positive light is amusing.
 
I disagree. It is the height of authoritarian.

Disagree all you like. You're not making any sense when you do.

Not exercising authority you have to prosecute and investigate = height of authoritarian? Really? Lol, okay.

District attorneys don't have to charge the worst crime possible or all the charges that they might be able to. Cops can give warnings instead of tickets or arresting. Plea bargains are made. Those are all examples of prosecutorial discretion in the use of limited investigative resources. None are authoritarian in nature, much less the height of authoritarian.
 
So Trump or any President deciding to focus all investigative and prosecutorial resources available on catching terrorists instead of marijuana smokers is the height of authoritarianism? Is unlawful? Is unconstitutional.

No. It isn't.
 
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