You hear it all the time but it is most prevalent on and around Memorial Day and July 4th. We thank soldiers for their service and pay homage to those who paid the greatest price to preserve our freedom, they fought and died so we could be free. In my nearly 4 years of “service” (what a crock, it wasn’t service, it was servitude pure and simple) I encountered hundreds if not thousands of fellow servicemen and not a single one of them thought in terms of “fighting and dying to preserve freedom.” We all had reasons for why we were there but not one of us gave preserving freedom as why. I apologize if I burst your dreamy patriotic bubble, but I just couldn’t stay quiet about it one more minute.
Sour Grapes On My Part
- Thread starter Ponca Dan
- Start date
I already know you’re an ungrateful attention-starved butt hole. But thanks for the reminder.
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I was expecting any reaction to be more substantive. Did you serve? What were your reasons for joining? What were your observations of your fellow service members? Did they strike you as disproportionately more patriotic than non-service people? I was hoping for responses related to that kind of question.
You and Brittney Griner would get along just fine.
Does it matter why someone joined the military? The fact they were willing to join up, spend 4 years of their lives serving in the military and potentially putting their lives on the line is worthy of respect, especially in the "what is government doing for me" times we are living in today.
No, it doesn't matter except that the reason we are constatntly bombarded with is almost never the reason.
You don't think it's patriotic to serve our country in the military?
I don’t possess near the sense of patriotism and respect for the military that I used to, mainly due to posts like this. Similarly, I’m not nearly the Sooner fan that I used to be, due to people like Lincoln Riley and the various “portalers”. Why invest that kind of emotion in people whose heart isn’t in it?
You're missing my point. For the overwhelmng majority of those enlisting in the military the primary motivation has nothing to do with "fighting and dying to preserve our freedom." They join for other reasons while knowing that's the price they may be called on to pay.
As you've already said the reason people join the military doesn't matter. What matters is they did join, they did serve, they did contribute to the country and that is patriotic.
Curious question, Dan. Is there or has there ever been a nation you think has “done it right” and would patriotism for said nation be righteous in your view?
I don’t know. Tahiti maybe? I am not intending this to be a thread about patriotism, I’m not questioning the patriotism of soldiers. I’m just saying most guys didn’t sign up with a burning desire to fight and die to protect freedom. And for some unknown reason it bugs me to hear people who have never been soldiers pretend their freedom is the reason people join the military.
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Thanks for your service anyone who has ever been in the military
I guess I am baffled by your take. People can serve in the military for any number of reasons or any combination. Paid for or subsidized education, learning a trade(s), getting out of a rough home life (hell, it doesn't even have to be rough), needing structure (many people need to be told what to do), only perceived job/career option, patriotism (personal or family has just always served), and so many more reasons, good, bad or indifferent. All know going in that they may be in war, though most, I imagine, don't' expect it to happen or hope it won't (we all hope it won't).
All that said, they do have my respect and appreciation, as someone who went straight to college (for a very long time). Again, I am just baffled by your take on this. I get the anti-war sentiment, and fully support it. That said, as long as mankind has known that one group of people can take/control/use/kill other people, it has happened. The US is no worse than the rest of history in that regard, even with the many warts.
Funny. My nephew just got done with his service, including two tours in Iraq, and that’s not anyway near the way he felt.
Thanks for your service, and sorry that your voluntary time spent in the service of our country seems so meaningless to you.
I'm not asking yoyu to disrespect anyone. That's not what this is about. There is a constant barrage around the times of Memorial Day and July 4th in which we are told "they died for our freedom." I doubt there has ever been a single soldier that at the time he was getting wounded or killed thought to himself that preserving everybody's freedom is why he was making the sacrifice. I'm not questioning anyone's patriotism. It just bothers me that the manipulation/propaganda is "they died because they were so patriotic they were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice."
The sour grapes come into play for me when we are told soldiers died to preserve our freedom, as if anyone knows what they were thinking at the time they were dying. I'm just saying no soldier I ever knew thought he would willingly die so you could have your freedom.
You don't think the Revolutionary War, WWI, or WW2 met that (Civil War could be debated of that was the feeling or not)? Sure, there are many wars that don't fit the bill (Vietnam, Korean War, etc) you are aiming at, but those three (even if WWI may not have started that way) absolutely fit your statement of patriotism/freedom sacrifice.
The Revolutionary War, maybe, probably. WW1 & WW2, no way. We were manipulated into both wars. I would doubt there were very many soldiers in those wars that thought they were fighting and willing to die to preserve our freedom. Our freedom wasn't in jeopardy in either war.
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You sure no how to stir some shit up Dan. Although I never saw combat, my unit was twice put on alert for both desert storm and shield. Even with a newborn I was pumped and ready. I can't speak for others.
I grow weary of the daily back and forth between the two political sides as each tries to prove the other is worse than they are. Don't you get bored with it? I thought this might stir up an honest conversation, which it has for the most part.
My grandad (European front) and grandpa (Pacific front) would have solidly disagreed with you.
Your pump and readiness would have deflated the first time an artillary shell landed so close it literally shook you off the ground.
Again, I won't speak for others brother but I lean towards economic reasons for many. Which ain't a bad thing. Jmho.
They would have disagreed with me because they thought if they were killed in the war it would have been to protect our freedom, or they thought their freedom was in jeopardy?
Is that what shook you Dan? Myself? I'll never know obviously but I was ready and willing at the time and woulda give it all I had. How I'm built brother. 👍
I will say, they were both proud of their service and what was accomplished. Yes, both would have been proud to die for their families (and following generations). Grandpa was more explicit in his stories (bad aspects all around, but still the "best" outcome that could have happened) than my granddad, who was more subdued in his stories, but very upfront about what they were able to accomplish. As they both put it (they were pretty good buddies, which was cool when they were around each other), we are all going to die some time of some thing, why not do it for what they felt was bigger than themselves. As to protecting our freedom, yes, they felt strongly that they were doing just that. The running thought was, would things have ended with Europe? And what about future threats if the US did nothing? Would things stop at Hawaii? War sucks, neither were fans, but sometimes there are no other options. I think we can all agree that war should be avoided when at all possible, but sometimes, a group won't allow that. Sometimes it has been the US, sometimes it has been someone else.
Self preservation kicks in, so of course you would give it all you had. But it's the rare guy who's caught in the middle of a firefight that doesn't wonder what the hell he's doing there.
Couldn't answer that. I can tell you though preservation of my unit would be first and foremost. Again, I never saw combat but I know how I'm wired. Had plenty of training with shells exploding around me also if that helps.
The fact that didn't join to "preserve our freedoms" doesn't change the fact that that's the service they provided. We don't have conscription and service isn't mandated (like in many countries). And everyone of those who signed up, knew the risks and possibilities that come with such enlistment. And thus they, and you based on your post above, deserve our thanks.
Let me repeat for the umpteenth time I’m not saying that soldiers don’t deserve our thanks.
Then I'm sorry, what was the point of your original message? Because it sure sounded like you were fed up with servicemen and women getting thanks for "serving our country' when all of them signed up for ulterior (non-patriotic) motives.
Might ask a draft dodging non serving politician. They might have the answer yer lookin for Dan.
