And if I said that, I'd easily be able to pull up evidence from the game showing multiple holdings by both teams. All I ask is you show proof. It should be easy if you are correct.
Serena Williams loses US Open
- Thread starter AC_Exotic
- Start date
And if I said that, I'd easily be able to pull up evidence from the game showing multiple holdings by both teams. All I ask is you show proof. It should be easy if you are correct.
If you've seen the video then you know she went well beyond "insisting he apologize." At one point she told him he'd never be on a court with her again. Then she kept going and going and finally broke out the "thief" BS.
For crying out loud, what do you people want? Blood? How many times do I have to agree with you that Serena acted like a little prima donna, a spoiled brat, a superstar that expected calls to go her way? She was WRONG to act the way she acted! She ruined Osaka's shining moment. Her actions were deplorable and deserve all the criticism they receive. I am not now, and have not ever defended how she acted. She should not have behaved in such a juvenile manner. She acted like the St. Louis Cardinals acted when Denkiger (sp?) called the guy safe a 1st base and cost them the World Series. The Cardinals called for his head! She acted like OSU acted when that football ref from Texas called a touchdown for the Texas U. player when he had clearly fumbled before he reached the end zone. We swore we never wanted him to ref another OSU game as long as he lived. In other words she acted like an extremely competitive player on the biggest stage in the sport who felt she had been maligned (I agree with her; she was maligned. But it did not cause her to lose, and she NEVER SAID IT DID!) She told him she would see to it he never chaired another match in which she played. Big deal. She has that right if she wants to exercise it. She didn't say she wanted him banned from the game. She was pissed. He had hurt her and she wanted revenge. How many of us have said the same thing to people we were mad at? I know I have. What she DIDN'T say was she lost because of sexism. My comments have ALWAYS been in response to the OP which said she did. I have not defended her actions. I have condemned them. Let me say it for the umpteenth time: she was wrong, she behaved very badly. She said things in the heat of the moment she probably regrets today. The umpire failed to calm her down. Whatever he said to her only caused her to ratchet up her anger and her responses. She's a human being, not a robot. She handled the situation about as badly as it could have been handled. Does this response satisfy you?
Clearly I was stating the umpire pulled a stunt because THEY ALL DO IT. They all do it every match their players play.. It is common knowledge that they all do it. You are right in that I have no proof that Osaka’s coach was coaching from the sidelines. I have no proof. On the other hand I would bet 100 out of 100 coaches would tell you they coach from the sidelines. They are paid thousands of dollars to coach. That includes coaching from the sidelines. It is not incomprehensible to believe Osaka’s coach was coaching from the sidelines. He says he wasn’t. I have no proof otherwise. You score on that point. I will repeat, however, if he wasn’t coaching Osaka in the biggest match of her life he should be fired on the spot. Because every other coach in the game coaches from the sidelines.
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I contend that he didn't need to coach her from the bleachers so he didn't. Again, this is a stupid hill to die on for you.
That's a reasonable contention. I don't dispute it. I said I believed him when he said he wasn't coaching. It's not a hill I'm dying on, as badly as you apparently want me to.
Wow Ponca Dan. You posted that she only insisted he apologize. I posted that the video showed she did much more than that. I didn't know whether you'd seen the video of it or not. My post wasn't a slight at you. Not sure what all of the rest of your post was for. I think you're lumping me into other conversations.
Yes, I was lumping you in with the others. Yes, I saw the thing live and I saw a video of it later. Her remark that she wouldn't let him chair any more of her matches did not strike me as any more over the top than anything else she said. It was a stupid remark intended to hurt him back, nothing more. It happens all the time. Have you never told someone you'll never buy anything from their store ever again? I have. She was doing the same thing. I did not/could not hear what the chair was saying. But whatever it was, it was obviously inflaming the situation. She just kept getting madder and madder. The chair should have diffused the situation. He was supposed to be the adult in the room. None of which excuses her behavior. None of which has anything to do with the OP, which claimed she blamed "sexism" for her loss.
Oh my, you're right. The organization that hired the chair defended him. Game over. You win.
Game - Set - Match
If this thread was a tennis match I'd have won it 6 - 0, 6 - 0, 6 - 0. Or in Ponca Dan's instance 6 - 0, 6 - 0.
There is a thread on this topic in the Corral. You might find the comments interesting.
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2018/...erena-williams-behavior-at-us-open-final.html
I feel good that I'm backed up by Martina.
"[W]e cannot measure ourselves by what we think we should also be able to get away with," she said, adding, "There have been many times when I was playing that I wanted to break my racket into a thousand pieces. Then I thought about the kids watching. And I grudgingly held on to that racket."
"Had I behaved like that on a tennis court, I would have expected to get everything that happened to Serena," Navratilova told Times reporter Juliet Macur in a separate story. "It should've ended ... with the point warning, but Serena just couldn’t let it go."
In her op-ed, Navratilova said that Williams was correct when she claimed that "There is a huge double standard for women when it comes to how bad behavior is punished — and not just in tennis."
However, she added, "I don't believe it's a good idea to apply a standard of 'If men can get away with it, women should be able to, too.' Rather, I think the question we have to ask ourselves is this: What is the right way to behave to honor our sport and to respect our opponents?"
No, never have. I just move on. I'm not going to put any additional effort into something that I have already decided isn't worth any of my future time and/or money.
Sigh. No, she wasn't. Telling someone at a store that you aren't coming back isn't like what she did to the tennis official. Professional tennis has rules that can result in penalties if they aren't followed. Outside of the "no shoes, no shirt, no service," or getting the cops called for being an ass or even arrested for criminal behavior, I'm not aware of any store in this country that has what professional tennis has in terms of rules and/or penalties for their customers.
I think we've beaten them into submission. Unless they want to appeal to the chair umpire for a ruling.
This is exhausting! I’ll try one last time to explain things to you as I watched the match unfold. This is how I saw things.
Serena entered the match exuding confidence. And why shouldn’t she? She is the greatest women’s tennis player in history. Osaka was a comparative unknown. She had worked her way into the finals by beating delicate young white country club girls. But now she was facing a black woman that is built like an NFL line backer. Nobody gave her a chance.
IMO Serena saw this as her “I’m back!” moment. She is the grand dame of the circuit, beloved by the New York crowd, playing in front of people deliriously rooting for her. After over a year’s absence having a baby she was rounding into form at the perfect time. Another GS championship would be hers. All she had to do was show up and Osaka would fold like a cheap tent in a high wind. You could see the confidence oozing out of her.
Only things didn’t work out that way. Osaka, it turned out, wasn’t intimidated. She neutralized Serena’s power, chased her all over the court, got to balls in time to hit winners. In the first set she completely dismantled her opponent. She was playing truly inspired tennis.
You could see the shock in Serena’s face. This was not going like she had expected. The surprising thing for me to witness was the slow disintegration of her demeanor. You could see resignation sinking in. You could see the anger and frustration setting in. You knew she knew she was beat. The determination to succeed, which she has exhibited throughout her career withered away.
Then completely out of the blue the chair accused her of cheating, getting coaching from the sideline. The chair’s accusation came after the coach had given her a thumb’s up and she had turned away. As a poster on the Corral said, it was the equivalent of the umpire taking away a home run from George Brett because he had too much pine tar on his bat.
Serena went into a full-blown melt down. First she was being humiliated on her own court in her own country in front of her adoring fans. And now this. She behaved like a spoiled brat. She broke her racket after a blown shot. Deduct a point. She berated the chair. I have no idea what he was saying to her, but the more he talked the more upset she became. Deduct a game.
Now this whole thread started when the OP said she claimed she lost because of “sexism.” I explained that was not the case. And I repeatedly returned to that point as the only thing I was arguing.
From there the thread disintegrated into an argument over the chair’s actions. Most of you have argued that rules are rules, Serena broke the rules, she deserved what she got. I never once disagreed with you. I said over and over that she was wrong to act the way she did.
My only point regarding the chair was that none of this would have happened if he had not instigated it. What he did was totally unnecessary. She was beat. Whipped like a naughty puppy. He didn’t need to add insult to humiliation. He accused her of something every tennis player and coach does. Technically he was correct. But his timing was selective. Why did he wait until that moment to drive the stake in her heart? He didn’t need to do it, and, I believe he shouldn’t have done it.
That’s my opinion. You disagree. Fine.
Serena entered the match exuding confidence. And why shouldn’t she? She is the greatest women’s tennis player in history. Osaka was a comparative unknown. She had worked her way into the finals by beating delicate young white country club girls. But now she was facing a black woman that is built like an NFL line backer. Nobody gave her a chance.
IMO Serena saw this as her “I’m back!” moment. She is the grand dame of the circuit, beloved by the New York crowd, playing in front of people deliriously rooting for her. After over a year’s absence having a baby she was rounding into form at the perfect time. Another GS championship would be hers. All she had to do was show up and Osaka would fold like a cheap tent in a high wind. You could see the confidence oozing out of her.
Only things didn’t work out that way. Osaka, it turned out, wasn’t intimidated. She neutralized Serena’s power, chased her all over the court, got to balls in time to hit winners. In the first set she completely dismantled her opponent. She was playing truly inspired tennis.
You could see the shock in Serena’s face. This was not going like she had expected. The surprising thing for me to witness was the slow disintegration of her demeanor. You could see resignation sinking in. You could see the anger and frustration setting in. You knew she knew she was beat. The determination to succeed, which she has exhibited throughout her career withered away.
Then completely out of the blue the chair accused her of cheating, getting coaching from the sideline. The chair’s accusation came after the coach had given her a thumb’s up and she had turned away. As a poster on the Corral said, it was the equivalent of the umpire taking away a home run from George Brett because he had too much pine tar on his bat.
Serena went into a full-blown melt down. First she was being humiliated on her own court in her own country in front of her adoring fans. And now this. She behaved like a spoiled brat. She broke her racket after a blown shot. Deduct a point. She berated the chair. I have no idea what he was saying to her, but the more he talked the more upset she became. Deduct a game.
Now this whole thread started when the OP said she claimed she lost because of “sexism.” I explained that was not the case. And I repeatedly returned to that point as the only thing I was arguing.
From there the thread disintegrated into an argument over the chair’s actions. Most of you have argued that rules are rules, Serena broke the rules, she deserved what she got. I never once disagreed with you. I said over and over that she was wrong to act the way she did.
My only point regarding the chair was that none of this would have happened if he had not instigated it. What he did was totally unnecessary. She was beat. Whipped like a naughty puppy. He didn’t need to add insult to humiliation. He accused her of something every tennis player and coach does. Technically he was correct. But his timing was selective. Why did he wait until that moment to drive the stake in her heart? He didn’t need to do it, and, I believe he shouldn’t have done it.
That’s my opinion. You disagree. Fine.
So many wrong 'facts' in your narrative that it is crazy to try to talk to you. Your opinion is based on so much that is incorrect and that's why you are getting abused in this thread.
This is an innocent 'thumbs up'? Now you are just full of shit.
So essentially, "she was wrong to act the way she did but it was the chair's fault."
I'm seriously at a loss for words that you don't see the obvious disconnect between those two ideas. No biggie for me personally as I care nothing about pro tennis, just really weird to see that from Ponca Dan.
I have tried to have a civil conversation, while you have become increasingly hostile. I am baffled by your reaction. I have agreed with practically everything you have said. We disagree on the chair’s actions. It’s really not a big deal.
I must be the worst person in the world at explaining things as I saw them. Serena was at fault. Serena was at fault. Serena was at fault. OK? As I saw it she completely blew up when he cited her for cheating. I did not - and do not - think he needed to do it. He called her out when she was the most vulnerable emotionally. You could see it in her face that she had given up. He called her out for something everybody does. If she was cheating she was cheating from the beginning. He could have called her out much sooner. He waited for some unknown reason. I don’t think what he did, and when he did it was right. That’s my opinion. But Serena was wrong. Serena was wrong. Serena was wrong.
No, it was a gesture to move up. I had not seen that during the match. I was going by what Serena told the chair. I am in the middle of a conversation with an ESPN writer that covers tennis, a friend and associate of my son’s when he was at ESPN. If I get a chance I’ll transcribe it tomorrow. I will continue to try and be civil with you. I hope that you will do the same.
OR maybe he called it because he saw something occur that wasn't something everybody does. Maybe he saw something at previous times during the match, paid more attention to the player and the coach, and then called it when it became clear that a rules violation was occurring.
You've pigeonholed yourself into a very weird box on this. Are you a big Serena fan?
Actually no. I’ve never cared for Sarena. I give her credit for being the best of all time, but given her body she should be the best of all time. She’s had an overwhelming advantage.
Civil is fine as long as your facts are correct and not just your perceptions or assumptions. But don't expect me to let your incorrect facts skew the narrative you are trying to put forth.
