Question

[Ponca Dan]

In the interest in full disclosure let me say from the outset that I am opposed to the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. As a judge, and in his capacity as a government agent, he has participated in a relentless attack on the Fourth Amendment, ruling in favor of every government attempt to create a surveillance state, one of the prerequisites for the existence of a police state. In my opinion he poses a grave danger to our liberty.

That having been said I do not believe for one minute that he is a serial rapist. This attack from the left on his character leaves me bewildered and furious. The "opposition" has established a situation that provides cover for his more sinister actions as a judge, as described in the above paragraph. Once again the left has ignored a serious threat in favor of playing ignorant, stupid "gotcha politics." How can anyone take seriously anything the left does or says? They have proven themselves to be feckless, shallow and uninspiring.

Now to my question. I have watched with interest as Senator Lindsey Graham has made the rounds of the tv shows defending Kavanaugh from these charges. His primary mantra has been: "Doctor Ford has made accusations without evidence. She cannot name the date or the place where the attack occurred, and people who were there say it did not happen." My question is this: how can the "people who were there" know whether it happened if they do not know when or where it occurred?

 

[poke2001]

In the interest in full disclosure let me say from the outset that I am opposed to the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. As a judge, and in his capacity as a government agent, he has participated in a relentless attack on the Fourth Amendment, ruling in favor of every government attempt to create a surveillance state, one of the prerequisites for the existence of a police state. In my opinion he poses a grave danger to our liberty.

That having been said I do not believe for one minute that he is a serial rapist. This attack from the left on his character leaves me bewildered and furious. The "opposition" has established a situation that provides cover for his more sinister actions as a judge, as described in the above paragraph. Once again the left has ignored a serious threat in favor of playing ignorant, stupid "gotcha politics." How can anyone take seriously anything the left does or says? They have proven themselves to be feckless, shallow and uninspiring.

Now to my question. I have watched with interest as Senator Lindsey Graham has made the rounds of the tv shows defending Kavanaugh from these charges. His primary mantra has been: "Doctor Ford has made accusations without evidence. She cannot name the date or the place where the attack occurred, and people who were there say it did not happen." My question is this: how can the "people who were there" know whether it happened if they do not know when or where it occurred?

I think at least one said he wasn’t even there.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I think at least one said he wasn’t even there.

Yes, I know. But how does he know he wasn't there when he doesn't know where ":there" was?

 

[TPOKE]

I firmly believe this is about getting Trump, unfortunately ruining Kavanaugh is the way to do it.

 

[xplor58]

Because they have no recollection of anything of the sort that Dr Ford has mentioned happening?

 

[poke2001]

Yes, I know. But how does he know he wasn't there when he doesn't know where ":there" was?

How does she know he was there when she doesn’t know when or where it was? She does know, matter of factly, that she only has 1 beer.

 

[Ponca Dan]

I firmly believe this is about getting Trump, unfortunately ruining Kavanaugh is the way to do it.

I agree with you, at least in part. I think a greater motive is the desperate fear that Kavanaugh will swing the court toward an anti-abortion position. I do not understand the left's absolute fanatical devotion to abortion. But such devotion exists whether I understand it or not. I think the left is trying for a two-fer: stick it to Trump and defend abortion, with abortion being the higher priority of the two. And, frankly, I think they are being stupid. I can't envision the court overturning Roe v Wade. It would cause a civil war. Abortion is the left's red line. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Because they have no recollection of anything of the sort that Dr Ford has mentioned happening?

Exactly! To be honest I'm just poking holes in Graham's rhetoric, not what I perceive to be the line of reasoning he's attempting to profer.

 

[Ponca Dan]

How does she know he was there when she doesn’t know when or where it was? She does know, matter of factly, that she only has 1 beer.

Yes, there are holes in her story big enough to drive a truck through. It will be interesting to see if this ploy by the left/Democrat Party will backfire on them in the upcoming elections. Anecdotally my wife, who has never paid any attention to politics, is furious with the Democrats. I don't know to what extent she is an example, but if other people (particularly women) feel as she does this may spell trouble for the Donkey Party.

 

[2012Bearcat]

Yes, there are holes in her story big enough to drive a truck through. It will be interesting to see if this ploy by the left/Democrat Party will backfire on them in the upcoming elections. Anecdotally my wife, who has never paid any attention to politics, is furious with the Democrats. I don't know to what extent she is an example, but if other people (particularly women) feel as she does this may spell trouble for the Donkey Party.

My wife is as A political as they come and she is right there with your wife. Not sure if that means anything but it surprised me.

 

[imprimis]

There are many women who feel like your wife. They know that their husbands, sons, brothers, uncles or male friends are just one false accusation away from having their lives and careers ruined. They also know that if their male relatives lives are ruined their life goes down the tubes as well.

 

[my_2cents]

My question is this: how can the "people who were there" know whether it happened if they do not know when or where it occurred?

Again, we need an investigation!

Do you oppose a full and fair investigation of these accusations?

 

[my_2cents]

I firmly believe this is about getting Trump, unfortunately ruining Kavanaugh is the way to do it.

And what if it isn't . . what if these women are telling the truth? Have you stopped to consider that?

 

[CBradSmith]

My wife is as A political as they come and she is right there with your wife. Not sure if that means anything but it surprised me.

Lot of women also understand how this level of flamboyance coupled with the lack of regard for process (as intended by the Dims to scuttle this or drag it past midterms) diminishes legitimate occurrences that also follow appropriate process.

The part most on the Left are conveniently overlooking is Process.

They (Dims) have attempted to abuse process for political gain and have effectively damaged protections for women.

 

[Ponca Dan]

Again, we need an investigation!

Do you oppose a full and fair investigation of these accusations?

Yes, I oppose an investigation on these charges. They are too flimsy, unsubstantiated, a transparently obvious delaying tactic by the Democrats. It's all too contrived. Feinstein is under fire in California for not being radical enough. So guess who gets to release the charges?! It appears all the accusers come from a Democrat/left-wing background, activists for social justice causes. Not a single little mousy, apolitical, moderately conservative housewife among them. Isn't that convenient? It's almost as if the high school/college age Kavanaugh was targeting girls he knew would become left wing activists when they aged into women. None of this passes the smell test. Besides isn't there a Senate investigation taking place today? (I'm at work and am not monitoring the news.)

 

[Alpha Poke]

I firmly believe this is about getting Trump, unfortunately ruining Kavanaugh is the way to do it.

Hell, Kasich already told us McCain had been "put to death."

 

[my_2cents]

Yes, I oppose an investigation on these charges. They are too flimsy, unsubstantiated, a transparently obvious delaying tactic by the Democrats. It's all too contrived.

So essentially, you have made up your mind about the accusations based on your partisan assumptions, correct?

What if you are wrong? What if these women are telling the truth?

Besides isn't there a Senate investigation taking place today? (I'm at work and am not monitoring the news.)

No, not at all. What you see occurring today is political theater. It is not a full and fair investigation of this matter. Is the Committee calling Judge? The other women? That is just one example of how what you see occurring today is not an investigation.

It is rather clear Republican Senators don't want a true investigation of this. Neither do you. And why? Because of partisan reasons.

 

[Ponca Dan]

So essentially, you have made up your mind about the accusations based on your partisan assumptions, correct?

What if you are wrong? What if these women are telling the truth?



No, not at all. What you see occurring today is political theater. It is not a full and fair investigation of this matter. Is the Committee calling Judge? The other women? That is just one example of how what you see occurring today is not an investigation.

It is rather clear Republican Senators don't want a true investigation of this. Neither do you. And why? Because of partisan reasons.

1) Yes, I've made up my mind based on my anarchist/libertarian partisan assumptions. The Democrats had a perfect opportunity to attack Kavanaugh for his rulings and activism on behalf of the surveillance state. They chose to go the "theater" route (as you so aptly describe it). I am a person who abhors both political parties and despises politicians as a repugnant breed of human. If you want to view my opinion as "partisan" there's not much I can do about it. I view my opinion as wide-eyed non-partisan, and it is apparent to me the Democrats overplayed their hand. Their bluff is being called, and it is not a pretty sight for them.

2) The committee is affording Ms. Ford the opportunity to state her case before the American public. It is her chance to expose Mr. Kavanaugh for what she believes him to be. All she needs to do is present evidence and those of us who are fair minded will take that evidence into consideration. If the evidence is more than an accusation based on a hazy memory the American people will recognize the truth. If all she does is sling accusations without evidence the American people will recognize it as counter to American values of truth and justice.

 

[my_2cents]

1) Yes, I've made up my mind based on my anarchist/libertarian partisan assumptions.

At least you are honest.

The rest of your post is filled with more of your partisan nonsense. You have concluded you "know" what the Democrats are doing and you have done so simply because of your political presuppositions.

2) The committee is affording Ms. Ford the opportunity to state her case before the American public. It is her chance to expose Mr. Kavanaugh for what she believes him to be. All she needs to do is present evidence and those of us who are fair minded will take that evidence into consideration. If the evidence is more than an accusation based on a hazy memory the American people will recognize the truth. If all she does is sling accusations without evidence the American people will recognize it as counter to American values of truth and justice.

You asked if an investigation is occurring today. This is not an investigation.

As for evidence, if you want evidence, then support a full investigation. If you can't support that, then you don't really care about evidence Ponica.

Drop the bs.

 

[Ponca Dan]

At least you are honest.

The rest of your post is filled with more of your partisan nonsense. You have concluded you "know" what the Democrats are doing and you have done so simply because of your political presuppositions.



You asked if an investigation is occurring today. This is not an investigation.

As for evidence, if you want evidence, then support a full investigation. If you can't support that, then you don't really care about evidence Ponica.

Drop the bs.

I will give you credit. When you put on the blinders you simply cannot look beyond the carrot you have put in front of your face. You accuse me of partisan bias. This is utter nonsense. I have told you I despise them all. I began this thread by pointing out I oppose Kavanaugh’s confirmation. Just not for the juvenile reasons you demand we all support. Pot meet kettle. Your partisan activism is on full display. Anyone with a smidgin of an open mind will recognize which one of us is promoting partisan bs. And it ain’t me.

 

[PDT816]

Again, we need an investigation!

Do you oppose a full and fair investigation of these accusations?

Absolutely agree. The victims should file charges with Maryland authorities and let's handle this like the criminal matter it is.

 

[my_2cents]

Your partisan activism is on full display.

Why, because I support a full investigation?

I don't know who is telling the truth. I haven't reached any conclusions on who is telling the truth, whether this is all just politics, etc. That is why I want an investigation. How is that partisan?

You are the one though who has already drawn conclusions. Based on your view of the Democrats. That is partisanism Ponca, regardless of whether or not you also despise Republicans.

 

[my_2cents]

Absolutely agree. The victims should file charges with Maryland authorities and let's handle this like the criminal matter it is.

Or the Senate Judicial Committee could simply ask the FBI to conduct an investigation.

Either way, let's have a full and fair investigation of these serious allegations.

 

[PDT816]

A full investigation is a criminal investigation by Maryland authorities. Anything else is political theater

 

[Ostatedchi]

From tMB

It's ironic she remembers so little that would actually prove or disprove her claims:

If she knew how she got there, we'd be able to ask that person if they remember.
If she knew how she got home, that person would definitely be able to disclaim or corroborate her story.
If she knew what day this happened K could prove his innocence based on travel.
If she could remember whose house she was at, the rest of her story would have more credence or that person could deny.

There's literally nothing she remembers that's helpful to corroboration. The only thing remotely helpful is the 4 people that she claims were there that all deny this happened. How can anyone feel anything but high skepticism?

 

[my_2cents]

A full investigation is a criminal investigation by Maryland authorities. Anything else is political theater

I disagree, the FBI could easily investigate this for the Committee.

 

[PDT816]

I disagree, the FBI could easily investigate this for the Committee.

And that's because you want to see political agendas carried out not Justice

 

[Ponca Dan]

Why, because I support a full investigation?

I don't know who is telling the truth. I haven't reached any conclusions on who is telling the truth, whether this is all just politics, etc. That is why I want an investigation. How is that partisan?

You are the one though who has already drawn conclusions. Based on your view of the Democrats. That is partisanism Ponca, regardless of whether or not you also despise Republicans.

You simply cannot remove the blinders. I am attacking the Democrats in this instance because it is the Democrats that deserve an attack. I have no qualms in attacking Republicans or DJT when it is called for.

As for your insistsnt claim that “these are serious allegstions” your are leaving out a more important adjective. They are serious unsubstantiated allegations. One doesn’t need to be partisan to see what’s going on.

Only a bs partisan such as yourself would refuse to admit this is nothing more than a delay tactic by the Democrats.

 

[my_2cents]

And that's because you want to see political agendas carried out not Justice

Not at all. I simply want an investigation and the FBI could easily do it.

Many Republicans don't wany such an investigation for purely political reasons though.

 

[my_2cents]

I have no qualms in attacking Republicans or DJT when it is called for.

If this was a Democrat, would Republicans be calling for a full and complete investigation?

Only a bs partisan such as yourself would refuse to admit this is nothing more than a delay tactic by the Democrats.

lol, just not true. The fact that you have drawn this conclusion absent a full investigation shows that you are engaged in partisanism.

You might can fool some with your bs Ponca but you are fooling me.

 

[PDT816]

Not at all. I simply want an investigation and the FBI could easily do it.

Many Republicans don't wany such an investigation for purely political reasons though.

The investigation could easily take place after he's confirmed to SCOTUS. Would that be a fair compromise in your opinion?

 

[my_2cents]

The investigation could easily take place after he's confirmed to SCOTUS. Would that be a fair compromise in your opinion?

What an absurd idea. The point of the investigation is to protect the integrity of the Supreme Court and find out the truth regarding these accusations before Kavanaugh is confirmed.

Again, all some on the right care about is rushing this nomination through. Regardless. It is absolutely nuts.

 

[PDT816]

What an absurd idea. The point of the investigation is to protect the integrity of the Supreme Court and find out the truth regarding these accusations before Kavanaugh is confirmed.

Again, all some on the roght care about is rushing this nomination through. Regardless. It is absolutely nuts.

There's no integrity in government in any capacity. I don't even know where to begin as to how naive you sound.

Kavanaugh isn't going to get confirmed, so let's vote and move on to the next one.

 

[my_2cents]

Kavanaugh isn't going to get confirmed, so let's vote and move on to the next one.

I'm not too sure about that. Many Republicans seem very focused on Kavanaugh being confirmed regardless.

For me, this isn't about him being confirmed or not. We need an investigation into this to either clear Kavanaugh (which he deserves if he is innocent) or to see if the accusations are true. I also think such an investigation does protect the integrity of our government and its institutions.

Playing partisian politics doesn't. And today, there is too much of that. That is why you can claim there is no integrity. I'm not naive, I just would like to see us embrace more fair-minded solutions and less partisian nonsense.

 

[PDT816]

He's was never going to get all the Republicans and the allegations have made sure he's not getting any Ds.

 

[aix_xpert]

In the interest in full disclosure let me say from the outset that I am opposed to the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. As a judge, and in his capacity as a government agent, he has participated in a relentless attack on the Fourth Amendment, ruling in favor of every government attempt to create a surveillance state, one of the prerequisites for the existence of a police state. In my opinion he poses a grave danger to our liberty.

That having been said I do not believe for one minute that he is a serial rapist. This attack from the left on his character leaves me bewildered and furious. The "opposition" has established a situation that provides cover for his more sinister actions as a judge, as described in the above paragraph. Once again the left has ignored a serious threat in favor of playing ignorant, stupid "gotcha politics." How can anyone take seriously anything the left does or says? They have proven themselves to be feckless, shallow and uninspiring.

Now to my question. I have watched with interest as Senator Lindsey Graham has made the rounds of the tv shows defending Kavanaugh from these charges. His primary mantra has been: "Doctor Ford has made accusations without evidence. She cannot name the date or the place where the attack occurred, and people who were there say it did not happen." My question is this: how can the "people who were there" know whether it happened if they do not know when or where it occurred?

I agree with your question and had even asked the same in another thread. That said, in the instance where the accuser named an individual directly as being there, then they could state they weren't part of such event likely by having never been part of that type of event.

 

[aix_xpert]

I'm not too sure about that. Many Republicans seem very focused on Kavanaugh being confirmed regardless.

For me, this isn't about him being confirmed or not. We need an investigation into this to either clear Kavanaugh (which he deserves if he is innocent) or to see if the accusations are true. I also think such an investigation does protect the integrity of our government and its institutions.

Playing partisian politics doesn't. And today, there is too much of that. That is why you can claim there is no integrity. I'm not naive, I just would like to see us embrace more fair-minded solutions and less partisian nonsense.

If this requires investigating, then Feinstein should be censured (heck even impeached) for her part in hiding evidence for 6 weeks of such a heinous act.

 

[gopokes2003]

If this requires investigating, then Feinstein should be censured (heck even impeached) for her part in hiding evidence for 6 weeks of such a heinous act.

The fact that cents won't acknowledge this shows he's a partisan hack.

 

[Ponca Dan]

If this was a Democrat, would Republicans be calling for a full and complete investigation?



lol, just not true. The fact that you have drawn this conclusion absent a full investigation shows that you are engaged in partisanism.

You might can fool some with your bs Ponca but you are fooling me.

If the roles were reversed the two parties would reverse their roles. Republicans would be screaming for a “full and fair” investigation, and the Democrats would insist they are investigating fully and fairly, while obstructing the Republicans at every turn. The fact that you are capable of seeing the hypocrisy of only the Republicans is very telling of how partisan you are.

 

[my_2cents]

If this requires investigating, then Feinstein should be censured (heck even impeached) for her part in hiding evidence for 6 weeks of such a heinous act.

The Feinstein deflection.