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Police Violence against Black Men Is Rare

wyomingosualum

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http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...t-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say

A few days ago, former police officer Jason Stockley, who is white, was acquitted of first-degree murder; he had fatally shot Anthony Lamar Smith, who was black, in 2011. Protests started in St. Louis, where the shooting took place and Stockley was judged, immediately after the verdict was announced. Although they were initially peaceful, they soon turned violent, and dozens of protesters were arrested while several police officers were injured. Since the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, just outside St. Louis, in 2014, this has become a familiar pattern.

This article is not about whether Stockley should have been acquitted. Instead, I want to talk about the underlying narrative regarding the prevalence of police brutality against black men in the U.S., which is largely undisputed in the media.

According to this narrative, black men are constantly harassed by the police and routinely brutalized with impunity, even when they have done nothing wrong, and there is an “epidemic of police shootings of unarmed black men.” Even high-profile black celebrities often claim to be afraid of the police because the same thing might happen to them. Police brutality, or at least the possibility that one might become a victim of such violence, is supposed to be part of the experience of a typical black man in the U.S. Events such as the death of Brown in Ferguson are presented as proof that black men are never safe from the police.

This narrative is false. In reality, a randomly selected black man is overwhelmingly unlikely to be victim of police violence — and though white men experience such violence even less often, the disparity is consistent with the racial gap in violent crime, suggesting that the role of racial bias is small. The media’s acceptance of the false narrative poisons the relations between law enforcement and black communities throughout the country and results in violent protests that destroy property and sometimes even claim lives. Perhaps even more importantly, the narrative distracts from far more serious problems that black Americans face.

Let’s start with the question of fatal violence. Last year, according to the Washington Post’s tally, just 16 unarmed black men, out of a population of more than 20 million, were killed by the police. The year before, the number was 36. These figures are likely close to the number of black men struck by lightning in a given year, considering that happens to about 300 Americans annually and black men are 7 percent of the population. And they include cases where the shooting was justified, even if the person killed was unarmed.

Of course, police killings are not the result of a force of nature, and I’m not claiming these are morally equivalent. But the comparison illustrates that these killings are incredibly rare, and that it’s completely misleading to talk about an “epidemic” of them. You don’t hear people talk about an epidemic of lightning strikes and claim they are afraid to go outside because of it. Liberals often make the same comparison when they argue that it’s completely irrational to fear that you might become a victim of terrorism.

One might retort that, while it may be rare for a black man to be killed by the police, black men are still constantly stopped and routinely brutalized by the police, even if they don’t die from it. However, even this weaker claim is false. It just isn’t true that black men are kicked, punched, etc., on a regular basis by the police.

In order to show that, I’m going to use data from the Police-Public Contact Survey (PPCS), which, as its name suggests, provides detailed information about contacts between the police and the public. It’s conducted on a regular basis by the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) and is based on a nationally representative sample of more than 70,000 U.S. residents age 16 or older. Respondents are asked whether they had a contact with the police during the past 12 months; if they say they did, they answer a battery of questions about the nature of their last contact, including any use of force. Since the respondents also provide their age, race, gender, etc., we can use this survey to calculate the prevalence of police violence for various demographic groups. The numbers in this piece are from my own analysis of the data, the details and code for which I provide here, but they are consistent with a 2015 report compiled by the BJS itself to the extent the two overlap.

First, despite what the narrative claims, it’s not true that black men are constantly stopped by the police for no reason. Indeed, black men are less likely than white men to havecontact with the police in any given year, though this includes situations where the respondent called the cops himself: 17.5 percent versus 20.7 percent. Similarly, a black man has on average only 0.32 contacts with the police in any given year, compared with 0.35 contacts for a white man. It’s true that black men are overrepresented among people who have many contacts with the police, but not by much. Only 1.5 percent of black men have more than three contacts with the police in any given year, whereas 1.2 percent of white men do.

If we look at how often the police use physical force against men of different races, we find that there is indeed a racial disparity, but that this experience is rare across the board. Only 0.6 percent of black men experience physical force by the police in any given year, while approximately 0.2 percent of white men do. To be fair, these are probably slight undercounts, because the survey does not allow us to identify people who did not experience physical force during their most recent contact but did experience such force during a previous contact in the same year.

Further, physical force as defined by the PPCS includes relatively mild forms of violence such as pushing and grabbing. Actual injuries by the police are so rare that one cannot estimate them very precisely even in a survey as big as the PPCS, but the available data suggest that only 0.08 percent of black men are injured by the police each year, approximately the same rate as for white men. A black man is about 44 times as likely to suffer a traffic-related injury, according to the National Hospital Ambulatory Medical Care Survey. Moreover, keep in mind that these tallies of police violence include violence that is legally justified.

Now, it’s true that there are significant differences in the rates at which men of different races experience police violence — 0.6 percent is triple 0.2 percent. However, although people often equate racial disparities with bias, this inference is fallacious, as can be seen through an analogy with gender: Men are vastly more likely to experience police violence than women are, but while bias may explain part of this disparity, nobody doubts that most of it has to do with the fact that men are on average far more violent than women. Similarly, if black men commit violent crimes at much higher rates than white men, that might have a lot to do with the disparity in the use of force by the police.

This is evident in the National Crime Victimization Survey, another survey of the public conducted by the BJS. Interviewers ask respondents if they have been the victim of a crime in the past 12 months; if they have, respondents provide information about the nature of the incidents, including the race and ethnicity of the offenders. This makes it possible to measure racial differences in crime rates without relying on data from the criminal-justice system, in which racial bias could lead to higher rates of arrest and conviction for black men even if they commit violence at the same rate.

NCVS data from 2015, the most recent year available, suggest that black men are three times as likely to commit violent crimes as white men. To the extent that cops are more likely to use force against people who commit violent crimes, which they surely are, this could easily explain the disparities we have observed in the rates at which the police use force. That’s not to say that bias plays no role; I’m sure it does play one. But it’s unlikely to explain a very large part of the discrepancy.
 
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Some might say that, instead of consulting statistics like these, we should defer to black Americans’ own perceptions of how the police treat them. As various polls have demonstrated, black people are much more likely than white people to think that police violence against minorities is very common. But the issue cannot be settled this way.

Since individuals have direct knowledge of what happened to them personally, you can trust them about that. But when it comes to larger social phenomena, people’s beliefs are influenced by far more than just their personal experience, including the media. The far more compelling fact is that, if you draw a representative sample of the population and ask each black man in that sample whether a police officer has used physical force against him in the past year, you find that it’s extremely rare.

On many issues, liberals have no problem recognizing this problem. For instance, there is a cottage industry of articles deploring the fact that, although crime has fallen spectacularly in the U.S. since the 1990s, most Americans believe it has increased. Liberals are absolutely right to point out this misperception, but if people of any color can be wrong about this, there is no reason to think black people can’t be wrong about the prevalence of police violence against minorities
 
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Some might say that, instead of consulting statistics like these, we should defer to black Americans’ own perceptions of how the police treat them. As various polls have demonstrated, black people are much more likely than white people to think that police violence against minorities is very common. But the issue cannot be settled this way.

Since individuals have direct knowledge of what happened to them personally, you can trust them about that. But when it comes to larger social phenomena, people’s beliefs are influenced by far more than just their personal experience, including the media. The far more compelling fact is that, if you draw a representative sample of the population and ask each black man in that sample whether a police officer has used physical force against him in the past year, you find that it’s extremely rare.

On many issues, liberals have no problem recognizing this problem. For instance, there is a cottage industry of articles deploring the fact that, although crime has fallen spectacularly in the U.S. since the 1990s, most Americans believe it has increased. Liberals are absolutely right to point out this misperception, but if people of any color can be wrong about this, there is no reason to think black people can’t be wrong about the prevalence of police violence against minorities

This story is anecdotal and not statistically significant in any way, but I found it interesting. I read this article to a young Mexican American man that works for me and asked him what he thought. To say he was flabbergasted would be an understatement. He told me that a couple of years ago he watched as a "big black dude" got in a tussle with a cop in the street in front of his house. The black dude was "hopped up on something, and seemed to be overpoweringly strong." The cop wrestled him to the ground, but the black dude got him in a headlock and appeared to be trying to get the cop's gun. So the young man that works for me jumped into the fray, grabbed the black guy around the legs and helped fight him off until "two backup cops showed up." One of the cops smashed my employee in the head, knocked him off the black guy, and the three cops finally managed to subdue the black guy. While the original cop very enthusiastically thanked my employee for helping (You might have saved my life.") the cop that pushed him off the black guy got up in his face and in a very bullying way told him if he ever saw him interfere with a police action again he would shoot him on the spot. My Mexican American friend maintained that cop would never have treated a white man with such disrespect. He says that article is BS.
 
My Mexican American friend maintained that cop would never have treated a white man with such disrespect. He says that article is BS.

Your friend is speculating. Maybe that guy is an asshole to everybody, which is speculative as well.

Was your friend hurt when he was smashed in the head? How bad was his concussion and how many stitches did he need to close the gash that resulted from the smashing? If the answer is "Oh, he wasn't hurt", then he's exaggerating. If he was hurt, I know a couple of attorneys he should visit with!
 
Your friend is speculating. Maybe that guy is an asshole to everybody, which is speculative as well.

Was your friend hurt when he was smashed in the head? How bad was his concussion and how many stitches did he need to close the gash that resulted from the smashing? If the answer is "Oh, he wasn't hurt", then he's exaggerating. If he was hurt, I know a couple of attorneys he should visit with!
His point was the disrespectful attitude displayed against him is something that doesn't show up in official statistics. Like I said the story is purely anecdotal and is significant in no way. I just thought it was interesting how his perspective of how the police treat minorities is far different from mine. My worst experience with a cop has been when they're rude during a traffic violation.
 
Couple things about your story Dan.

Personally I can see both sides of the story. I appreciate what your friend did and probably did save his life. This situation did work out well for him so I was glad to hear that the original cop thanked him for his help. I can also see where your friend helping out caused extra issues for the cops arriving on the scene and why they wouldn't want a third party stepping in. When they arrive all they know is a cop is under distress, no clue who the third guy is, maybe he's a helpful citizen, maybe he's someone who is a friend of the problem individual?

Unfortunately your story is typical of most folks interaction with officers, not that they are allegedly assaulted, but that they only see it from their side of the situation. That cop yelling and "bullying" your friend probably did his job that day because hopefully the next time something like that happens your friend might not jump in. The officers are trained for those situations, equipped for those situations and fortunately for us signed up for situations like that. Most officers I know would rather take a bullet than have some innocent person end up taking a bullet for jumping in that situation.

There's no doubt there are some major league pricks wearing badges and definitely guys out there that don't need to be wearing badges but my opinion from experience is that those numbers are much lower than the narrative which is out in the media and social networks.
 
Couple things about your story Dan.

Personally I can see both sides of the story. I appreciate what your friend did and probably did save his life. This situation did work out well for him so I was glad to hear that the original cop thanked him for his help. I can also see where your friend helping out caused extra issues for the cops arriving on the scene and why they wouldn't want a third party stepping in. When they arrive all they know is a cop is under distress, no clue who the third guy is, maybe he's a helpful citizen, maybe he's someone who is a friend of the problem individual?

Unfortunately your story is typical of most folks interaction with officers, not that they are allegedly assaulted, but that they only see it from their side of the situation. That cop yelling and "bullying" your friend probably did his job that day because hopefully the next time something like that happens your friend might not jump in. The officers are trained for those situations, equipped for those situations and fortunately for us signed up for situations like that. Most officers I know would rather take a bullet than have some innocent person end up taking a bullet for jumping in that situation.


Just so you know, I completely agree with your point of view in general. I would point out that in this case the policeman knocked my friend off the pile and immediately jumped onto the black guy. He knew perfectly well that my friend was trying to help. My friend was not so much angry about the manner in which he was pushed off the pile as the way he was treated by the cop in the aftermath.

My friend's experience is immaterial (in my mind) as to the validity of the statistics in the linked article. But I feel confident his perception is shared by the vast majority of his fellow Mexican Americans as well as blacks.

As hard as I want to believe otherwise I can't help but acknowledge there is white privilege in interactions with police. I cannot imagine a cop telling me he would shoot me on sight "the next time." My friend's perception of the police is almost diametrically opposite of mine. That's a problem that is desperate need of addressing.
 
His point was the disrespectful attitude displayed against him is something that doesn't show up in official statistics. Like I said the story is purely anecdotal and is significant in no way. I just thought it was interesting how his perspective of how the police treat minorities is far different from mine. My worst experience with a cop has been when they're rude during a traffic violation.

Well, my point is that reality becomes distorted very quickly. Head smashing and pushing off the pile of humanity could theoretically occur in such a situation, but once the head smashing theme is out there, that's all most people will pay attention to.

I'd love to see the video of this incident.
 
Couple things about your story Dan.

Personally I can see both sides of the story. I appreciate what your friend did and probably did save his life. This situation did work out well for him so I was glad to hear that the original cop thanked him for his help. I can also see where your friend helping out caused extra issues for the cops arriving on the scene and why they wouldn't want a third party stepping in. When they arrive all they know is a cop is under distress, no clue who the third guy is, maybe he's a helpful citizen, maybe he's someone who is a friend of the problem individual?

Unfortunately your story is typical of most folks interaction with officers, not that they are allegedly assaulted, but that they only see it from their side of the situation. That cop yelling and "bullying" your friend probably did his job that day because hopefully the next time something like that happens your friend might not jump in. The officers are trained for those situations, equipped for those situations and fortunately for us signed up for situations like that. Most officers I know would rather take a bullet than have some innocent person end up taking a bullet for jumping in that situation.

There's no doubt there are some major league pricks wearing badges and definitely guys out there that don't need to be wearing badges but my opinion from experience is that those numbers are much lower than the narrative which is out in the media and social networks.

I completely agree with your post in the abstract. In this particular incident, however, the policeman knocked my friend off and immediately pounced onto the black guy. He knew very well that my friend was there helping the original policeman. My friend was not so upset about being knocked out of the fray as the disrespectful attitude the cop showed him in the aftermath. He speculates that the cop would not have treated a white guy with the same attitude. And his perception, along with the perception of most Mexican and Mexican Americans I know, is the cops view Mexicans as an enemy, as suspects, as culprits, as people not deserving respect. We might think he is full of crap, but that doesn't alter the perception he carries with him. It is an issue that is in desperate need of correcting.
 
I completely agree with your post in the abstract. In this particular incident, however, the policeman knocked my friend off and immediately pounced onto the black guy. He knew very well that my friend was there helping the original policeman. My friend was not so upset about being knocked out of the fray as the disrespectful attitude the cop showed him in the aftermath. He speculates that the cop would not have treated a white guy with the same attitude. And his perception, along with the perception of most Mexican and Mexican Americans I know, is the cops view Mexicans as an enemy, as suspects, as culprits, as people not deserving respect. We might think he is full of crap, but that doesn't alter the perception he carries with him. It is an issue that is in desperate need of correcting.

How do you know he knew very well that my friend was there helping the original policeman?

I would suggest that is actually your anarchist bias shining through.

What do you propose is the method of correcting a perception if that perception is, in fact, full of crap?
 
How do you know he knew very well that my friend was there helping the original policeman?

I would suggest that is actually your anarchist bias shining through.

What do you propose is the method of correcting a perception if that perception is, in fact, full of crap?

Well, let's see. Bully cop shows up on the scene, along with a 3rd cop, maybe his partner. Sees cop number one in a head lock by a big black guy, and a Mexican hanging in to the black guy for all he's worth, trying to keep the black guy from getting the gun. Pushes the Mexican off the pile and completely ignores him while he immediately jumps on the black guy, along with the 3rd cop that also totally ignores the Mexican. It takes all 3 of the cops a minute or two to subdue the black guy. It's only after the original cop thanks the Mexican for his help that the bully cop threatens to shoot him next time. That's how I know.

I really regret I told this story. My purpose was to explain why some (most?) minority men have a bad perception of how they're viewed by police in this country. You, JD, seem really hung up by my "anarchist bias." Why are you so threatened by a 70 years old man's personal political belief?

How to correct the perception minority men have of police? I have no earthly idea. As difficult as it is for me to say, I have to admit there's "white privilege" in the way police act toward the people they are supposed to serve. Maybe that should be addressed in the way they are trained.
 
Well, let's see. Bully cop shows up on the scene, along with a 3rd cop, maybe his partner. Sees cop number one in a head lock by a big black guy, and a Mexican hanging in to the black guy for all he's worth, trying to keep the black guy from getting the gun. Pushes the Mexican off the pile and completely ignores him while he immediately jumps on the black guy, along with the 3rd cop that also totally ignores the Mexican. It takes all 3 of the cops a minute or two to subdue the black guy. It's only after the original cop thanks the Mexican for his help that the bully cop threatens to shoot him next time. That's how I know.

I really regret I told this story. My purpose was to explain why some (most?) minority men have a bad perception of how they're viewed by police in this country. You, JD, seem really hung up by my "anarchist bias." Why are you so threatened by a 70 years old man's personal political belief?

How to correct the perception minority men have of police? I have no earthly idea. As difficult as it is for me to say, I have to admit there's "white privilege" in the way police act toward the people they are supposed to serve. Maybe that should be addressed in the way they are trained.

I'm not hung up on it. I'm just reminding you and others of it and pointing out that such a bias can't help but color your views on any discussion involving authority figures like this one does. Me pointing that out seems to offend you. Too bad.
 
@Ponca Dan
How long ago did this occur? If your friend was the victim of a head smashing, he really should consult an attorney. There is no statute of limitations on a federalcivil rights violation case. At least, there didn't used to be.
 
@Ponca Dan
How long ago did this occur? If your friend was the victim of a head smashing, he really should consult an attorney. There is no statute of limitations on a federalcivil rights violation case. At least, there didn't used to be.


It happened 4 or 5 years ago. My friend was not in the least upset about being hit and pushed off the pile. He was indignant at the way the bully cop treated him when the dust had settled. He expected to be thanked and instead was told he'd be shot if he ever did anything like that again. I would be indignant if that had happened to me. Wouldn't you? I repeat: the only reason I brought up the story in the first place was to discuss the perception that minority men have that they are viewed as "suspects" by the police. The original article points out how misplaced that perception is. I personally have no dispute with the article; statistics used properly don't lie. But minority men read that article and call BS. There is an obvious chasm between reality and perception. But that doesn't alter the reality of the perception. How to change that perception falls squarely on the police, in my opinion.
 
It happened 4 or 5 years ago. My friend was not in the least upset about being hit and pushed off the pile. He was indignant at the way the bully cop treated him when the dust had settled. He expected to be thanked and instead was told he'd be shot if he ever did anything like that again. I would be indignant if that had happened to me. Wouldn't you? I repeat: the only reason I brought up the story in the first place was to discuss the perception that minority men have that they are viewed as "suspects" by the police. The original article points out how misplaced that perception is. I personally have no dispute with the article; statistics used properly don't lie. But minority men read that article and call BS. There is an obvious chasm between reality and perception. But that doesn't alter the reality of the perception. How to change that perception falls squarely on the police, in my opinion.

There is a chasm between reality and perception.

Given that chasm, the perception is at odds with reality...a misperception of the reality.

And it's the responsibility of the police to change that misperception that exists a chasm away from the reality....not the people that aren't perceiving the reality.

Makes sense.
 
It happened 4 or 5 years ago. My friend was not in the least upset about being hit and pushed off the pile. He was indignant at the way the bully cop treated him when the dust had settled. He expected to be thanked and instead was told he'd be shot if he ever did anything like that again. I would be indignant if that had happened to me. Wouldn't you? I repeat: the only reason I brought up the story in the first place was to discuss the perception that minority men have that they are viewed as "suspects" by the police. The original article points out how misplaced that perception is. I personally have no dispute with the article; statistics used properly don't lie. But minority men read that article and call BS. There is an obvious chasm between reality and perception. But that doesn't alter the reality of the perception. How to change that perception falls squarely on the police, in my opinion.
The difference between your friend and me is that I wouldn't tolerate being threatened to be shot, if that's what actually occurred. At minimum, I'd file a personnel complaint against the officer. At most, I'd visit with the local FBI about a federal civil rights case and an attorney about a civil case against the officer. To be bullied and do nothing about it is to condone unacceptable behavior.

And before anybody says that they're afraid of the police and are powerless to do anything, I say bullshit on that. If I'm in the right, the police need to be afraid of me.
 
The difference between your friend and me is that I wouldn't tolerate being threatened to be shot, if that's what actually occurred. At minimum, I'd file a personnel complaint against the officer. At most, I'd visit with the local FBI about a federal civil rights case and an attorney about a civil case against the officer. To be bullied and do nothing about it is to condone unacceptable behavior.

And before anybody says that they're afraid of the police and are powerless to do anything, I say bullshit on that. If I'm in the right, the police need to be afraid of me.
You're exactly right: that's the difference between a white man and a marginalized man of color.
 
You're exactly right: that's the difference between a white man and a marginalized man of color.

Marginalized my ass. Tell him to do the following:
1. Obtain all records available of the incident using open records laws. There may be a small cost involved. Records will include police reports, dispatch logs, dashcam video, audio recordings, body cam footage, phone calls into dispatch. He can do this himself, just sprout some testicles and walk into the police department like he owns the place because, in fact, he does own the place.

2. The only thing marginalizing your friend is himself. If he's still afraid, then go see an attorney for a free initial consult. If he's got a case, the attorney will take the case. If he gets a no from the first attorney, seek out a couple of others and get their opinions. Cost involved so far is minimal. I'd be shocked if the records involved are over $100.

If it was me, I'd just do the initial footwork myself. But then, that's assuming that your friend is being honest and the story hasn't gotten more gruesome each time it is told.

See what happens when a person refuses to be marginalized? I'll steamroll your ass. And it doesn't matter if it's a white steamroller or a brown one. The result is whatever is in front of the steamroller gets flattened.

The only potential problem I can see is the amount of time that has elapsed since the head smashing. Video evidence that once existed may not be there now.

Marginalized my ass.
 
Marginalized my ass. Tell him to do the following:
1. Obtain all records available of the incident using open records laws. There may be a small cost involved. Records will include police reports, dispatch logs, dashcam video, audio recordings, body cam footage, phone calls into dispatch. He can do this himself, just sprout some testicles and walk into the police department like he owns the place because, in fact, he does own the place.

2. The only thing marginalizing your friend is himself. If he's still afraid, then go see an attorney for a free initial consult. If he's got a case, the attorney will take the case. If he gets a no from the first attorney, seek out a couple of others and get their opinions. Cost involved so far is minimal. I'd be shocked if the records involved are over $100.

If it was me, I'd just do the initial footwork myself. But then, that's assuming that your friend is being honest and the story hasn't gotten more gruesome each time it is told.

See what happens when a person refuses to be marginalized? I'll steamroll your ass. And it doesn't matter if it's a white steamroller or a brown one. The result is whatever is in front of the steamroller gets flattened.

The only potential problem I can see is the amount of time that has elapsed since the head smashing. Video evidence that once existed may not be there now.

Marginalized my ass.


All very good advice. Let me ask you some questions. Do you for one minute think anything will ever come from the "investigations" of the criminal wrongdoing perpetrated by the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation? Did you expect Tim Geitner to get prosecuted for his million dollar tax evasion? How about the tax evasion by Charlie Rangel? What outcome do you expect from the investigation into Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her hiring of the IT specialists who have fled the country? Do you think anything will happen to her? What steps have you as an American citizen taken to see to it these investigations produce convictions? Anything? Anything besides grousing about it to friends and on this message board? If the answer is no, you have done nothing about those things, I ask you why? Is it possible you haven't done anything about them is because you know in comparison to those people you are marginalized? Would you agree that if you had been charged with those crimes the government would have thrown the book at you? You have taken no concrete steps to assure justice is brought to those people because you know it would be a waste of your time on this earth. Now, if you can understand what I am saying, perhaps you can use that understanding to see how men of color feel marginalized. Statistics from the article show they are wrong. That has no bearing on how or why they feel that way.
 
All very good advice. Let me ask you some questions. Do you for one minute think anything will ever come from the "investigations" of the criminal wrongdoing perpetrated by the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation? Did you expect Tim Geitner to get prosecuted for his million dollar tax evasion? How about the tax evasion by Charlie Rangel? What outcome do you expect from the investigation into Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her hiring of the IT specialists who have fled the country? Do you think anything will happen to her? What steps have you as an American citizen taken to see to it these investigations produce convictions? Anything? Anything besides grousing about it to friends and on this message board? If the answer is no, you have done nothing about those things, I ask you why? Is it possible you haven't done anything about them is because you know in comparison to those people you are marginalized? Would you agree that if you had been charged with those crimes the government would have thrown the book at you? You have taken no concrete steps to assure justice is brought to those people because you know it would be a waste of your time on this earth. Now, if you can understand what I am saying, perhaps you can use that understanding to see how men of color feel marginalized. Statistics from the article show they are wrong. That has no bearing on how or why they feel that way.

You make an excellent case for being as marginalized as you want to be.

The big names mention are irrelevant to your friend's case.
 
Do you for one minute think anything will ever come from the "investigations" of the criminal wrongdoing perpetrated by the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation? Did you expect Tim Geitner to get prosecuted for his million dollar tax evasion? How about the tax evasion by Charlie Rangel? What outcome do you expect from the investigation into Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her hiring of the IT specialists who have fled the country?

Damn, miss any straw men there?:eek:
 
All very good advice. Let me ask you some questions. Do you for one minute think anything will ever come from the "investigations" of the criminal wrongdoing perpetrated by the Clintons and the Clinton Foundation? Did you expect Tim Geitner to get prosecuted for his million dollar tax evasion? How about the tax evasion by Charlie Rangel? What outcome do you expect from the investigation into Debbie Wasserman Schultz and her hiring of the IT specialists who have fled the country? Do you think anything will happen to her? What steps have you as an American citizen taken to see to it these investigations produce convictions? Anything? Anything besides grousing about it to friends and on this message board? If the answer is no, you have done nothing about those things, I ask you why? Is it possible you haven't done anything about them is because you know in comparison to those people you are marginalized? Would you agree that if you had been charged with those crimes the government would have thrown the book at you? You have taken no concrete steps to assure justice is brought to those people because you know it would be a waste of your time on this earth. Now, if you can understand what I am saying, perhaps you can use that understanding to see how men of color feel marginalized. Statistics from the article show they are wrong. That has no bearing on how or why they feel that way.
Not your best post. None of those national figures have anything to do with a local issue.
 
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Not your best post. None of those national figures have anything to do with a local issue.

The issue at hand is the feeling of being marginalized. When I see "big names" walk free for doing something I know perfectly well I would be prosecuted for, I feel marginalized. When I see absolutely nothing being done to Charlie Rangel for evading huge sums in taxes, while I have been hounded mercilessly by the IRS for a $5K disagreement, knowing my lawyer will cost more than that to clear my name, so I pony up the money just to make the harassment go away, I feel marginaluzed. There's not a person on this board who, when hearing how someone like Lois Lerner gets off scott free, doesn't remark "if that was me, I'd be headed to jail." That's feeling marginalized.

Wyoming pointed out all the things he would have done if he'd experienced the same thing as my Mexican friend. I would do those things too. I would have been demanding the bully cop's name, badge number and superior officer. And I would have raised holy hell with that superior officer. Why wouldn't I? I'm white, well educated, and financially well off. I have equal access to the criminal justice system as the bully cop, and the financial means to pursue the action Wyoming suggests. In that regard I am not marginalized. Poor and lower working class men of color do not have the same privilege as me. They feel the same way about their "local problem" that I feel toward the "big name" problem. It's exactly the same. You are free to dismiss it as a straw man and not relevant if you so choose. I guarantee you men of color would recognize the similarity immediately.
 
The issue at hand is the feeling of being marginalized. When I see "big names" walk free for doing something I know perfectly well I would be prosecuted for, I feel marginalized. When I see absolutely nothing being done to Charlie Rangel for evading huge sums in taxes, while I have been hounded mercilessly by the IRS for a $5K disagreement, knowing my lawyer will cost more than that to clear my name, so I pony up the money just to make the harassment go away, I feel marginaluzed. There's not a person on this board who, when hearing how someone like Lois Lerner gets off scott free, doesn't remark "if that was me, I'd be headed to jail." That's feeling marginalized.

Wyoming pointed out all the things he would have done if he'd experienced the same thing as my Mexican friend. I would do those things too. I would have been demanding the bully cop's name, badge number and superior officer. And I would have raised holy hell with that superior officer. Why wouldn't I? I'm white, well educated, and financially well off. I have equal access to the criminal justice system as the bully cop, and the financial means to pursue the action Wyoming suggests. In that regard I am not marginalized. Poor and lower working class men of color do not have the same privilege as me. They feel the same way about their "local problem" that I feel toward the "big name" problem. It's exactly the same. You are free to dismiss it as a straw man and not relevant if you so choose. I guarantee you men of color would recognize the similarity immediately.

Horse shit. If nothing else, your friend calls the FBI. They investigate all federal civil rights cases. It costs ZERO to unmarginalize yourself. And the beauty of that is that they will do all the footwork for people who choose to have lesser backbone for whatever made up reason they care to rationalize.

But if you allege a head smashing occurred, it damn well better have happened. Lie to a federal agent and you have something in common with Scooter Libby, a big name who went to federal prison for lying. And frankly, that's the only reason I can see to not take action...if it's a false allegation.
 
Horse shit. If nothing else, your friend calls the FBI. They investigate all federal civil rights cases. It costs ZERO to unmarginalize yourself. And the beauty of that is that they will do all the footwork for people who choose to have lesser backbone for whatever made up reason they care to rationalize.

But if you allege a head smashing occurred, it damn well better have happened. Lie to a federal agent and you have something in common with Scooter Libby, a big name who went to federal prison for lying. And frankly, that's the only reason I can see to not take action...if it's a false allegation.
OK, I give up.
 
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